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Who is James Webb


StephenRh

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I thought he was the "bloke who invented Rugby"?!? I'd never win at Mastermind! 🤣

But, as with many things, there is controversy? The only thing I can say it that (in my day)
scientists "named things" etc., without always thinking about the details / repercussions.
Bad people do good stuff? I don't think most scientists want to promote prejudice. 😐

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nasa-needs-to-rename-the-james-webb-space-telescope/

Some people feel "energised" when the expose the "enemy". I just feel tired/sad... 🤔


 

Edited by Macavity
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Reading that piece I kinda agree that a less controversial name would have been better. In current times we're seeing a lot of backlash against certain past events and figures, rightly or wrongly. It is the past and needs to be remembered for its effect on peoples lives but it does also need to be put behind us else we never move on to better times. That said when you look at attitudes in some military and other organisations, in Webb's case I do agree with that article.

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It seems that naming anything after anyone these days is creating a hostage to fortune (or even naming one thing after another thing - remember Ultima Thule?).

With the perspective of hindsight, (the majority of?) a later generation can agree that behaviours or opinions of historical figures would be unacceptable today. But it's another thing to say that they were obviously wrong at the time. I'd like to think that if I had lived in previous times I would have held the same views as I do now; but we are largely creatures of our environment, and the chances are that I would not.

Is it fair to assess someone like Webb by modern standards? How different was he than his peers in this respect? I don't know enough about him. I do however feel sorry for NASA as an organization. As I understand it, they were - by the standards of the times - a progressive force in the 60s, used by the US administration to further ethnic diversity in the professions. I think that aspect was lost in Hidden Figures too.

Perhaps the safest approach would be to stick to abstract nouns to name the missions and equipment: Perseverance, Ingenuity, ....

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7 hours ago, Knighty2112 said:

Seems like every generation like to find faults with the previous ones, so for the current ‘woke’ generation I asssume that later generations will continue to find faults in them too! ;) 

I'm sure they will, just as I'm sure that old people and the people with power will continue to find reasons to disparage the young and idealistic. All we can hope is that enough of the young and idealistic carry the faith forward so that society improves in tolerance and acceptance of others.

So, although the 60s was a time of great advancements in social attitudes in many ways, the leaders and administrators saw many of those advances as threats - hence the 'Lavender Scares'. 

Edited by Gfamily
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I think honestly is probably the key thing in all these debates.

Lets acknowledge Webb for all he did for science, but also point out his weaknesses.

Let's not pull them all down, but rather say, and put up a plaque if necessary, this man was homophobic, or racist, or whatever, we know where the money, or insight came from, and we are not happy.

Let's accept our failings and vow to do better in the future.

Saying he didn't do it isn't helpful, but saying he was of his time and it is no longer acceptable is much more powerful.

In fact, it raises debate.

The JWST, awesome telescope at the moment, JW made huge contributions to science, but he wasn't all good.

or

The Big Pointy Huge Telescope, it's big and pointy and sees further into space than we have seen previously (but was as a result of scientists whose views might now be considered dodgy).

I think I would rather have the debate, or else, how do we ever change?

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Long response:

What concerns me is that there is no comparable Space Telescope that isn't named for an Astronomer.

Rather, sometime in 2002., the then NASA Administrator decided that a previous NASA Administrator should be marked this way.   Hmm

I think lots of scientists and engineers had found out about the (official or unofficial) intolerance of homosexuality in the 50s and 60s, and since then, many LGB scientists and engineers will have had to keep their silence.

By 2002, there was no way that the previous homophobic attitudes could be justified - so I can't see how someone who was so involved with the  'Lavender scares', and the promotion of homophobia could be considered suitable.         

Short response

What 'huge contributions' to science did JW personally achieve? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 14/07/2022 at 10:00, Knighty2112 said:

Seems like every generation like to find faults with the previous ones, so for the current ‘woke’ generation I asssume that later generations will continue to find faults in them too! ;) 

Translation....what didn't offend us yesterday will offend us today.  I wonder what we will find offensive tomorrow?

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On 14/07/2022 at 15:00, Knighty2112 said:

Seems like every generation like to find faults with the previous ones, so for the current ‘woke’ generation I asssume that later generations will continue to find faults in them too! ;) 

Often for the better, there are good reasons why we don't send children up chimneys these days. I hope the next generation will genuinely find fault with ours, there are plenty of problems we aren't addressing adequately.

 

Edited by Knight of Clear Skies
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