The ZWO AM5 landed!

[The Admiral]

Welcome to the thread Rossco72. I've been very pleased with the AM5. Other commitments and/or weather has limited my use somewhat, but I've been very pleased with the guiding every time I've imaged, though I suspect the seeing hasn't been too challenging to date.

My last venture out on 25th August returned this, as given by PHD2 browser

I'd managed to PA to within 1.1' that night. This session was to augment the amount of data on IC1396, already posted, but I am still to finish processing this latest image. Reading the posts on the ZWO Mount FB pages, this does seem to be typical.

Good luck

Ian

Edited September 5, 2022 by The Admiral

[Dark Raven]

Not sure if it has already been posted, but there is someone who disassembled AM5 and did some measurements on it. Interesting to see the internal works and current draw.

https://youtu.be/ni-NEcRa7Ks

*Please note, video appears to be in Russian.

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Dark Raven

[Dinoboy]

Hi, I have just received my am5 mount but did not bother to buy the tripod as I will use my Celestron AVX tripod, I have purchased an adapter that fits onto the bottom of the am5 and the bolt on the AVX fits into the bottom of the adapter. One has to be careful here as there are, I believe, different sizes of adapter, my AVX tripod measured about 63mm, measure yours to be sure and do it using a vernier or similar. I have not had the chance of trying the mount due to clouds. I attached everything to the scope then found the centre by putting a piece of doweling under the scope and marked the vixen bar where the centre is therefore giving me, hopefully, the best balance. Can’t wait to try things out. My previous mount was a skywatcher 3-2 but, even though, with everything balanced, I got star trailing if I imaged 40-60seconds, I’m sure that mount is not up to it and I’m hoping the am5 will give me better results.

[The Admiral]

4 hours ago, Dinoboy said:

Hi, I have just received my am5 mount

Good news indeed, you won't regret it . You must let us know how you get on with it.

The thing about the harmonic mounts is that because of their high torque, there should be no need to balance the gear, indeed there is no facility for it, and I have heard it said that the PE is better with an unbalanced load on them. I don't bother with balancing mine, but I guess it can't be far off and it is only a relatively light scope. If you have a heavy kit then you may feel it more necessary if only to try to keep the CoG within bounds. Mind you, the AVX tripod is very unlikely to tip over I should think.

What gear are you planning to use with it?

Good luck.

Ian

[Dinoboy]

Hi, I have an ASIAIR pro along with an asi 249mc camera. To guide with I have a skywatcher evo 50. I use my apple iPad with the relevant apps on therefore I control polar alignment, camera functions Etc. The skies here in Leicestershire have not been kind but as soon as I have something I’ll post it.

[The Admiral]

I use the ASIAir Plus, and I must say that it doesn't half make the whole process easier. What's your scope?

Ian

[Dinoboy]

Hello Admiral, my scope is an Explore Scientific ed80apo. I have weighed everything and it comes to about 6 kilos. As you say the ASIAIR makes everything more enjoyable especially once one has Polar aligned. I want to image ic1396 the elephant trunk so I can follow along, step by step, a video regarding processing in Pixinsight. I have watched hours and hours of videos about PI but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. The said video is by Enteringintospace. Sorry don’t know his name. I’ve signed up for Adam Blocks Fundamentals course regarding PI, he’s very knowledgable and explains things for each process in great depth. 

[Phillyo]

I am so interested in this mount! The size/weight means it can almost double as a star tracker for more remote astrophotography rather than lugging my EQ6r Pro out. Might have to raid the piggy bank in the future! Looking forward to seeing more and more reviews and images come in from this mount.

Phil

[Dinoboy]

Hi Phil, yes the weight of the mount makes it extremely portable, I have to consider the weight of things as I cannot carry heavy items due to very weak knees. If you have a tripod where you can take off the post, as you can with the Celestron AVX mount, you will save yourself a few hundred quid, you will need to buy an adapter but they are a lot cheaper than the zwo tripod.

[The Admiral]

8 minutes ago, Dinoboy said:

you will save yourself a few hundred quid

True, and it's always an option, but you will save some 5 kilos with the carbon fibre tripod, if that's important to you. I've found it light, rigid, and stable in use, though my experience is with a fairly lightweight compact rig.

Ian

[Dark Raven]

On 06/09/2022 at 17:31, The Admiral said:

I use the ASIAir Plus, and I must say that it doesn't half make the whole process easier.

Could you please be so kind to elaborate a bit more? I ask because my imaging sessions have been a total blast using AA+ and AM5 compared to Stellarmate and iOptron mount. Although it might all be just iOptron and shaky wedge, as I yet have to try AM5 with Stellarmate. Repeated polar alignment with iOptron would always give different results regales how precise previous polar alignment would be. So frustrating and so time consuming. 

This video shows 10 consecutive polar alignments that were perfect.

 

I could only dream of this before.

[The Admiral]

10 hours ago, Dark Raven said:

Could you please be so kind to elaborate a bit more?

Hi Dark Raven,

Well, perhaps it's worth noting what I had been previously using. I was using an iOptron GEM45 in stand-alone mode, doing three star alignments and requiring connecting the iPolar to a laptop for PA. I was using a DSLR with an intervalometer, and had just started guiding with an MGEN. At that point health issues required me to seek lighter gear, and I opted for the new, unproven AM5. It was a long wait before it arrived too! I also switched to an ASI533 astro camera and the ASIAir +. So anything was going to be easier . But I do find that the AAP and AM5 just seem to work seamlessly together, and the beauty of plate solving simplifies the whole process. It is a complete imaging package in a box. Not to mention the advantage of the AM5, you don't have to balance the scope!

I have found that PA has been a bit of a minor issue. I think that this may be because my view of the NCP is a bit obstructed, but I have not found it easy to get the smiley face, and I have not found a way of cancelling the PA routine until the smiley face appears, so it's been a bit frustrating. Perhaps I can best describe it as the movement is a bit 'twitchy'. I am improving on this though with experience. From one imaging location in my garden I need to do an all-sky PA, and I've found it to work well. Mind you, I have never got the quoted PA below 1" as in the video, but the PHD2 guide results show it has always been below 10 arcmin. Unlike in the video, I am guiding, so it's not so critical. I also note that when he chose to compare the results with the All-Sky, he pointed the scope towards the East, which the ZWO guidance explicitly says one should avoid. It needs to be towards the South, so I suppose it isn't actually 'all-sky'.

Ian

[Dark Raven]

Not having clear sight of NCP, I can see your point. I am mobile imager exclusively, so I have to set it up each time from the ground up. Coming from iOptron and DSLR as well I also found AM5 to be oversensitive to even slightest movements during the PA routine. With time, I came to appreciate it more and more. Moving to dedicated uncooled OSC ZWO ASI585MC enabled PA in under 5 min. That's why I love it...
I hope it gets better for you too...

[The Admiral]

10 hours ago, Dark Raven said:

I have to set it up each time from the ground up.

I am not a mobile imager, but I too have to do this . I suppose one advantage of the iPolar is that its field of view is greater than the image through the scope, so I suppose it might be able to get a more precise fix. For those with an APS sensor, life should be a bit easier.

But also, as I've found to my frustration, the initial alignment of mount would have to be more precise. When I first got the mount the home position was a bit off, so my initial alignment by eye was way off, and I had a very frustrating time trying to re-adjust the mount's position in the middle of PA, particularly, as I've said, I couldn't find a way to come out of the PA loop without the smiley face. I ended up having to re-start the ASIAir and better align the mount towards the NCP and begin PA again. Not only that, but it seemed that I had an overhead power line in the FoV! Since then, I have re-set the home position using the AM5 mount app., and I pre-align the mount using a magnetic compass to at least be pointing in the right direction .

Ian

[Martthebass]

I haven't done a home position adjustment on mine; I did find a couple of times that it did seem slightly off but it didn't seem to make any difference to the PA (using the AA+) and subsequent goto accuracy/guiding precision.  I do agree that the adjustments are sensitive but they are so much more fluid than on my previous AZEQ5 mount and I can usually get good PA within 5 minutes.  One thing I haven't checked is how much the PA 'moves' when you lock off the mount but so far I haven't had a problem.

I'm still having the occasional issue with loss of guiding/tracking but I'm coming to the conclusion that that is a 'crossing the meridian' issue.  So far in 'commissioning' I've only been doing 'live' stacks via the AA+ and the tracking seems to be lost as it approaches the meridian as the mount will not flip in live mode.  Has anyone else noticed this?

[The Admiral]

1 hour ago, Martthebass said:

it did seem slightly off but it didn't seem to make any difference to the PA (using the AA+) and subsequent goto accuracy/guiding precision.

No I don't think it should, as it is calibrated at that position. The problem I had was that the pointing was a few degrees off, and my setting up was such that it was outside its acceptable limits for doing a PA.

When I went through the meridian, guiding stopped, the mount changed orientation, guiding was re-calibrated, and guiding started. I have a vague recollection that before starting you should clear the previous settings, but I'm blowed if I can remember any details now. That may or may not help. Presumably this is more connected with the AAP operation than the mount.

Ian

[Martthebass]

45 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

No I don't think it should, as it is calibrated at that position. The problem I had was that the pointing was a few degrees off, and my setting up was such that it was outside its acceptable limits for doing a PA.

When I went through the meridian, guiding stopped, the mount changed orientation, guiding was re-calibrated, and guiding started. I have a vague recollection that before starting you should clear the previous settings, but I'm blowed if I can remember any details now. That may or may not help. Presumably this is more connected with the AAP operation than the mount.

Ian

Thanks Ian, I think it is an AAP issue, I sent the logs to ZWO for analysis/comment.  If you use the AAP in plan mode then it should be ok as it'll perform the flip and recalibrate automatically.  As I've been testing in live mode I think it just gets to the meridian and tracking stops.  If you look on the guidescope view the stars just trail past without any corrections being made.  I've had it tracking hours when away from the meridian without issue.

[Dark Raven]

1 hour ago, Martthebass said:

As I've been testing in live mode I think it just gets to the meridian and tracking stops.

That is my experience in Autorun as well, however, upon later inspection, I noticed that my meridian flip toggle switch was off. 😒🤦‍♀️

[The Admiral]

Yup, that would make a difference ☺️

Ian

[Martthebass]

43 minutes ago, Dark Raven said:

That is my experience in Autorun as well, however, upon later inspection, I noticed that my meridian flip toggle switch was off. 😒🤦‍♀️

Thanks DR.  In my case, not sure that it matters where the meridian flip is toggled as it won't work in 'live' anyhow if I recall correctly.  

I was a bit concerned that the mount was 'shonky' but glad to find it's me being dim.  The AA+ still has a few bugs that could do with sorting but overall it's a good pairing.  

[Dark Raven]

2 hours ago, Martthebass said:

sure that it matters where the meridian flip is toggled as it won't work in 'live' anyhow if I recall correctly. 

I have not tried the 'live" mode yet, hoping for some good weather towards the end of the month. There are many things to try with AM5. 

I fully agree that the AA+ needs some polishing but overall I find it far smoother running than Stellarmate. Native drivers and full in-house development are advantages of a closed platform, but it comes with the vendor-lock as price tag. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Dark Raven

[Dark Raven]

Posting here as well, so all who follow the topic see it.

 

[gilesco]

7 hours ago, Dark Raven said:

Posting here as well, so all who follow the topic see it.

 

To be fair, a design flaw caused by user modding which I would have found ZWO hard to predict users would do, now corrected in manufacturing and also speedily announced as an issue with workarounds and fixes explained.

I think this is fair play by the manufacturer to get this warning out as early as they did. So I think they deserve some kudos for doing so, and encouragement for them to issue warnings like this more in the future for other new products.

[Martthebass]

They've also now added this info into the user manual as point 3.2.5. 

[Dark Raven]

5 hours ago, gilesco said:

a design flaw caused by user modding which I would have found ZWO hard to predict users would do

I love my AM5 and enjoy it immensely. I do not mind the vendor lock as long as they provide product compatibility, stability and support. That being said, changing mount saddle or scope finder shoe should not be hard to predict and IMHO it is the fundamental feature of AP equipment. I will probably change the saddle in order to save on some weight as I use V style dovetails and carry it in the backpack. 

There will never be a replacement for common sense and experience. I screwed the screws back in without any tools, only using my fingers. It just gives me chilis to know that I could have damaged my mount. 

Entire finder shoe on the side of the mount is an afterthought brought in after green laser feature removal due to diverse international legislature on the matter. It was never part of the original design and not well tested. That is also obvious from the new instruction not put the AA+ on the mount to prevent antenna and cables breaking. If you look at the initial promo materials and videos, finder shoe is not present.

Kudos to Zwo for making AM5 and putting it on the market in time of global supply chain disruption. Also for not ignoring the issue, putting the notice out and updating the user manual.

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Dark Raven