Tal 100r possible improvements .

[Trevor PC]

So time passes quickly when you just turn 64. I will start with the heart wants what the heart wants, so ever since  childhood a refractor was what I believed to be a telescope.

This year I bought a Tal 1 and a pair of swift Newport binoculars , and A Polarex 80mm spotting scope, all three  in very good  condition for their age, and have enjoyed using them. Here comes the bit where feelings overcome logic with the feeling is I still wanted what the heart wants.

I looked at a couple of options of classic telescope, a Polarex 60mm in fair condition for not allot of money and a 3 inch T-705 both in their original boxes. Also a Stellavue  AT-1010 so what happened missed out on the Polarex by not making a decision to buy, the T-705 is still a possibility, and talked out of the  Stellavue by the owner who thought it would not give me anything more then what I already had.

So up pops a Tal 100r with some minor problems, i then read as many threads as I could find about a scope that has light problems around baffles and a focuser that has a short focus lenght that results in problems using none Tal eyepieces and Barlow's, and  you guessed it I buy it.

No waiting for a Tal 100rs with issues the Tal 100r had rectified , or saving the pennies for a Tal 125 r, and not following the advice to plug the gaps in my observing  by getting a Dobson. 

So here I am looking to see if any other forum members  can help me address the light issues with baffles and possible solutions to the focuser problem. And I can here you saying what about the unstable wooden tripod, well all I can say is the heart wants what the heart wants!

Any help/guidance would be much appreciated.

Many thanks as always.

Trevor

 

 

 

[DaveL59]

wow so you got it then, well done lol

So as far as the tripod is concerned I think it likely is pretty good for stability as it'll damp out the vibrations better than an ally one. In fact I was wanting to get hold of the TAL tripod at one point myself. The head you'll find has the same limitations as your TAL-1 in that it can only slo-mo for approx 5 degrees then you need to reset the slo-mo control and shift the scope manually and start over.

If you check out astrobaby's site (Astro-Baby Telescope Reviews) she has a review of the TAL100RS and also a rebuild of the TAL-1 including the mount which should help guide you if you need to fettle any bits.

I think the RS came after the R so if anything it'll have been improved in some areas. Mine has a focuser with significant travel for example  and different to the one on astrobaby's 100RS so it seems they fitted a couple different types. Here's mine on the EQ5 mount tho it now has the bigger TAL 8x50 finderscope riding on it.

If your R has short travel and you need more outward then I guess an extension tube would help. You could determine the length by holding the diagonal and drawing it away from the drawtube till you reach focus and measure that distance.

As for light baffles, try it and see if it affects the view would be my suggestion. If you do feel you need to modify it then you're looking at removing the focuser and likely the objective cell too so you can reach in and apply something to fill the gaps (flocking or epoxy then black paint etc. ). I have seem posts somewhere on that but can't recall where and never did this on mine.

How are you finding the TAL-1,? You'd get about the same light capture with the 100R but with less CA being a newt. Both very solidly over-engineered bits of kit which along with the little TAL-M are the ones I'd look to keep in my collection for some time. I find the SW130 feels so flimsy by comparison 🙂 

edit: for the tripod, its usually best to not extend it to maximum height as they're all more wobbly when used that way 😉 

Edited July 1, 2022 by DaveL59

[DaveL59]

a search on here found this re the focuser/diagonal

 

so in-focus could be the issue but a prism diagonal may solve that rather than using a mirror version as it'd have a shorter light path. @Ags did a review recently of the Celestron prism diagonoal which reported it to be very good if you were wanting to go that route:

 

 

[Trevor PC]

Hello Dave 

As always a pleasure to here from you, I thought my thread would cause the odd chuckle .

The scope is still in Scotland as we speak, awaiting delivery to my daughter in-laws family. It will eventually be picked up by my son and his wife when they next visit, so you can see I can be patient sometimes!

I also read that the ash tripod would dampen vibration, but I am expecting some as the Tal 100r is longer than the Tal 100rs by about 4 inches so I have read.

The small issues it has are a cracked main lense cover , and a missing adjustment screw on the finder., I hope to find both in time.

I will add some photos of it once I have reduced them  in size.

In regards to the focuser I can see about measuring the length of the extension tube required, my question is where do I get one from once I know the length?

I read the thread on the celestron prizm diagonal, and will look out for one, when funds permit.

I have a prizm diagonal I bought off a well known auction site, and would like to know how best to check it by shinning a light down it mentioned in the thread?

As I stated I read a lot of reviews on the Tal100r with one of the most interesting ones mentioned measuring the quality of the main lense of the Tal 100r against the Tal 100rs by placing the Tal 100r main object lense in the Tal 100rs tube with the conclusion that the Tal 100r objective was better than the Tal 100rs buy a small amount in some tests and allot in others.

Eventually I hope to get a similar EQ5 mount but that will have to wait till I have mastered the basics.

So why buy something that has possible problems, and it is the heart ruling the head, and that a retired mechanical engineer dosn't like an easy life, but does like a challenge!

In regards to the Tal-1, I have focused on the moon, and had some great views that really surprised me how clear and sharp they were. Viewing has been far less than good in the north west of England, so waiting for the next window of opportunity.

As always many thanks 

 

Trevor

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wookie1965]

I have the 100rs when I tried to use a 5mm eyepiece I did not have enough infocus although I use a 2" diagonal so I bought one of these and I can barlow the 5mm now.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-low-profile-eyepiece-adapter-for-steeltrack.html

[DaveL59]

Hi Trevor

well done on getting it despite minor issues 🙂

For the end cap, Mine was fine but I didn't have one for the objective, only the dew shield and when transporting it the box needs the dew shield removed. So I bought a nitrile covered bearing end cap to suit as I'd rather not be transporting it with the objective exposed to potential damage. Did the same for the small TAL-M newt too.

Can't say much on the difference with the R and RS objectives as I've not compared but I find mine is good to my eye so am quite happy with it.

The missing screw on the finder I take it are on the holder rings? Those are regular metric thread IIRC, 3mm possibly so should be easy to get replacements for in either metal or nylon.

From wookie's post it may be that in-travel is more the issue with the focuser so his post may be more useful. Extension tubes you can get from most scope suppliers like FLO I believe should you need them. Only way to know is when you have it and can test it out with the eyepieces you want to use with it.

Agree re the TAL-1, it has a slightly smaller mirror than my SW130 but I prefer it over the SW130 and don't find any real difference in the view I get with it. Sometimes wish the pillar mount had a dovetail fitting so I could pop the 100RS onto it but so far haven't wanted to hack the integral rings off to make that possible. I plan on stripping the TAL-1 down one day to repaint etc as its a bit tatty, but have been distracted onto camera lenses this past year or so.

[Trevor PC]

 Hello Dave 

As always thanks for responding, the one I have though bought new does not come in its original box  which was got rid of years ago .

This will need me to make one , have you still got yours and if yes would it be possible to send me some photos along with dimensions. 

The Tal 1 was shipped in a packing crate with polystyrene inserts, was the RS in one of these or the lovely 1/2" plywood boxes with all the appropriate cutouts?

In regards to the focuser the threads talk about not enough outward focus, which was resolved on the RS by giving the focuser 4" of extra travel .

The threads talk about a focuser range of 30 to 40 mm which I would like to increase to allow for a greater range of eyepieces to be used.

As always many thanks.

Trevor

 

[Trevor PC]

Hello  Wookie

Thanks for getting  in touch.

I think that the issue I face with the Tal 100r is different to the Tal 109RS issue you had, as the threads talk about the focuser length needing to be longer , so my question is can you buy an extend piece to increase focus length for the existing focuser or a completely new   one ?

As always any help or guidance is much appreciated.

Trevor 

[DaveL59]

Ahh my Tal100RS came in a card box with a wood insert to hold the OTA - the tube rings fasten down onto it in transit. Sadly no original wooden box with mine, nor the TAL-1 which I picked up fairly locally. The only one I have in the original baltic ply case is the TAL-M which I renovated in another thread in the DIY section. Needed all the foam on the wood inserts removing and replacing with felt as they'd crumbled/decayed. 

I've thought about making a wood case for the RS and maybe the 1 but never have so far. It'd weigh a ton tho is the only problem lol. Once my daughter has moved and when her OH has less workload I may see if I can get him to knock one up for the RS OTS tho (he's a builder) or maybe get hold of an old military surplus long case/box.

For the focuser then, best to check it over when it arrives and see if you can easily drop an extension in ahead of the diagonal, depends which model focuser it has I guess. Read one post where they commented about it being non-standard where the prism/focuser mate which might limit your options. Need to determine if its 1.25 inch or 2 inch etc.

Edited July 2, 2022 by DaveL59

[wookie1965]

28 minutes ago, Trevor PC said:

Hello  Wookie

Thanks for getting  in touch.

I think that the issue I face with the Tal 100r is different to the Tal 109RS issue you had, as the threads talk about the focuser length needing to be longer , so my question is can you buy an extend piece to increase focus length for the existing focuser or a completely new   one ?

As always any help or guidance is much appreciated.

Trevor 

As I have not had that problem I would not know sorry, I thought about changing the focuser on mine but I believe its near impossible. I changed a ropy focuser on my Meade 127mm to a Skywatcher dual focus  one although I had to get a adapter plate made £130, its fabulous now though.

Best wishes 

Paul

[Trevor PC]

Hello Dave 

As always thank you for responding.

I would be interested if the Tal 100r did come in one of those heavyweight plywood boxes or just a packing crate like the Tal-1, will have to talk to the chap I bought it from.

As the focuser is rack and pinion my thought is that the R would need a longer rack to then give it greater movement than the 30mm of 40mm it presently has as extending the existing spacer would still only give the same amount of travel, does that sound right?

As always thank you.

Trevor 

 

 

[DaveL59]

21 minutes ago, Trevor PC said:

Hello Dave 

As always thank you for responding.

I would be interested if the Tal 100r did come in one of those heavyweight plywood boxes or just a packing crate like the Tal-1, will have to talk to the chap I bought it from.

As the focuser is rack and pinion my thought is that the R would need a longer rack to then give it greater movement than the 30mm of 40mm it presently has as extending the existing spacer would still only give the same amount of travel, does that sound right?

As always thank you.

Trevor 

 

 

I think shipping varied over time, early ones having formed wood inserts and later polystyrene which of course falls apart over time with use, then a shift to card perhaps. Same with the vintage japanese scopes too I believe. Of course the vast bulk and therefore storage meant many probably got rid which is a pity. I was lucky with the TAL-M as that case is a nice easy fit into the car boot but the long OTA's on the TAL1/2 and 100's would never fit into mine.

Without seeing your 100R its hard to say as the focuser on mine is also rack&pinion but the 2-inch version. The issue probably isn't the range of travel so much as getting the diagonal/eyepiece combo far/near enough to the objective to attain focus. If you find it needs to be further out than the focuser can adjust to then an extension tube would shift the focal point outward and then the focuser travel would allow you to adjust around that new point. A focuser with a larger travel makes life easier for sure, but there's ways around it if needs must.

I can't say whether this would work but here's a 35mm 1.25-inch extender which is what I was thinking if you needed to achieve more outward distance. Other lengths are also around on the market, or make your own even by removing the lenses from a barlow.

StellaLyra 35mm 1.25" Extension Tube | First Light Optics

 

As Paul says tho, swapping out the focuser may be more involved than a direct drop-in but may still be possible. I've seen a post that used an adaptor to fill the gap and that might be possible if you have a 3D printer or a machine shop that can make a collar to match things up. Depends how far you want to go/spend 😉 

Edited July 2, 2022 by DaveL59

[Trevor PC]

Hello Dave

As always thanks for responding. 

That extention looks like a very viable solution. As I am on track to being a TAL collector what was your view of the TAL M as they appear to come up quite often? 

Changing the subject put the swift binoculars on my UniLoc tripod, resulting in them being rock steady and very clear, knowing me will end up with some 80mm binoculars when funds allow. 

Passed on some Hilkinson 15x80s in very good condition that went for £46 yesterday on a well known auction website, well you cant have everything, or can you!!! 

As always thank you 

Trevor

[Trevor PC]

Photos of latest purchase as promised bellow, and the other issue the part broken locking screw on the weight

[DaveL59]

Just did a bit of background searching and I expect you'll more find an issue with in-travel reaching focus (or not) with some eyepiece combos but many should work fine. So a case of suck it and see I think then determine what's best to do. However if you plan on putting a camera on the scope then out-travel could be a problem where an extender would work.

edit: or are you also thinking for terrestrial use in which case you would need the drawtube to extend further out to achieve focus?

For the TAL-M, I love it. Very capable and when left set up in the conservatory is an easy lift and drop to get the entire assembly out into the garden in one go, where I have to dismount the OTA etc on the longer scopes. Well the TAL-1 I can manage in a single lift being its on a pillar rather than tripod. The only issue with the M is you're stuck with the OEM eyepieces as the 1.25's are slightly loose and won't reach focus. You can of course shift the mirror up the tube to get around this but that then makes the in-built finder unusable or you switch back to the OEM eyepieces to sue then switch to 1.25's for main viewing. That said the OEM 25 and 10mm eyepieces are good and with the extension tube and barlow can hit x160 and still give a good image.

Finding one that has all the parts is down to some luck I think and many show their working life in damaged paint but they are very solidly made and not hard to overhaul. Mine had the 15mm but no 25mm nor extension tube but I got around that buying an older TAL-1 just for the 25mm and then swapped the TAL-1 focuser for the later 1.25-inch version so the latter can be used with regular eyepieces (after shifting the mirror that is). I also modified the 2-part pillar on the M so that if needed I can run it with a single pillar section to keep the scope lower to the ground, was thinking for my grandaughter when she gets a chance to come out and look. 

There's also the Alcor which is smaller again and reportedly very good, I think @Stu here has that model.

Edited July 2, 2022 by DaveL59

[Trevor PC]

Hello Dave

As always thanks for responding.

No  I just plan to use the Tal 100r for astronomy, I have the Polarex or Swift's for terrestrial viewing.

A camera would be something I would think about  if /when I get a powered mount.

Thanks for the review of the Tal M , maybe a future buy 😉

With the in focus issue what sort of Barlow would be suitable, a standard or a shorty, or I can see if the Tal  3xbarlow would work, would also like to get a 2x that I could use on both Tal"s.

As always thank you.

Trevor 

 

 

[Trevor PC]

Hello Dave 

Still tempted by a Tal 2m slightly worried about its weight, have you ever owned or used one?

As always thank you

Trevor

 

 

[Stu]

2 hours ago, DaveL59 said:

There's also the Alcor which is smaller again and reportedly very good, I think @Stu here has that model.

Indeed, the Alkor is a little gem, optically amazing for such a little newt.

[DaveL59]

Never seen/used a TAL-2M, was tempted to get one once which was boxed but it was too far to travel at the time. 6-inch mirror I believe so more light capture than the 1 so should be better views. The motorised mounts tho may need good checking over as if they have motor issues aren't simple to overhaul (the motor).

Not knowing your focuser its hard to say re barlows that would work well with it, I have the one that came with my 100RS that is x3 I think and also the Lanthanum glass x2 which is very good, as below

TAL 2x BARLOW lens 1.25” Lanthanum glass/ T ADAPTER | eBay

If your TAL-1 has the russian model eyepieces then the x3 barlow on that won't work with the 1.25 inch systems tho you can use 1.25 eyepieces in it for the TAL-1. 

On other brands, the Orion shorty I've seen recommended but not necessarily for the TAL, then there's the upper price range that I've no experience of.

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by DaveL59

[DaveL59]

in case you really want to grab a TAL Barlow just seen this on the bay:
TAL 2x Barlow lens 1.25" | eBay

Can't say the price is fair nor high, certainly quicker and cheaper than importing one 🙂 (and no, its not mine lol)

[Trevor PC]

Hello Dave

As always thanks for responding.

Yes I have seen this one , it has been  around for a while, along with another that I did offer on, that was not excepted.

Will try the 3x Tal Barlow first before deciding on a 2x.

I have seen a thread on The Tal 100r that states that the Tal diagonal can't be changed for  another due to it being chamfered which others aren't.

I would like to know if any one has seen or overcome this issue.

As always many thanks.

Trevor 

 

[DaveL59]

might be worth having a chat with this fella and see how he got on with his mod

and what focuser he originally had if he's prepared to part with it if its a different one to yours, assuming you've the same length OTA...

[Trevor PC]

Hello Dave

As always thanks for responding.

I have contacted the individual and asked various questions, so will have to see if they respond.

As always many thanks.

Trevor