Dark smudges on images!!!

[Dam]

Hey all,
Hope everyone is ok. I need help please, does anyone know what those dark spots in my images are? Is this a dust or damaged coating on my refractor lens?
I am getting a dark smudge on all of my pictures. It's in the top left corner of the picture I have here.
Is this just dust on the sensor? Or perhaps something worse?
Thanks for any help you can provide.

p.s apologies in advance if posted in wrong thread wasnt sure where to post. 
Br,
Dam

Edited June 19, 2022 by Dam

[Clarkey]

Looks like dirt in the image train. Different places I suspect and quite bad. You need to check the sensor and any glass / filters near the camera. Just be careful cleaning - ideally just blow dirt off with a puffer but you might need a small lens brush.

[tomato]

@Clarkey has beat me to it, but those  intense dark shadows look like dust on the sensor cover of the camera. Flat frame calibration will usually remove dust motes but in my experience ones as prominent as these will cause problems in the final image even with flats. As already advised best to take the camera off and blow it clean with a dry and oil free compressed air source.

[Dam]

18 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

Looks like dirt in the image train. Different places I suspect and quite bad. You need to check the sensor and any glass / filters near the camera. Just be careful cleaning - ideally just blow dirt off with a puffer but you might need a small lens brush.

Thank you for your reply. Yes its very bad 😔 i could not see anything on the refractor lens but the normal dust particles  however did not check the camera sensor as am scared to touch the glass filter in case i damge coating. There is a flattener in a train which is brand new and got it out of box first time i took this image but will check it regardless. Thank you for advice 🙏  much appreciated. 

[Xilman]

2 minutes ago, Dam said:

Thank you for your reply. Yes its very bad 😔 i could not see anything on the refractor lens but the normal dust particles  however did not check the camera sensor as am scared to touch the glass filter in case i damge coating. There is a flattener in a train which is brand new and got it out of box first time i took this image but will check it regardless. Thank you for advice 🙏  much appreciated. 

Check for an eyelash while you have the kit disassembled ...

[Dam]

21 minutes ago, tomato said:

@Clarkey has beat me to it, but those  intense dark shadows look like dust on the sensor cover of the camera. Flat frame calibration will usually remove dust motes but in my experience ones as prominent as these will cause problems in the final image even with flats. As already advised best to take the camera off and blow it clean with a dry and oil free compressed air source.

Indeed it is very intense area and cant really pinpoint where it is in imaging train. I have tried flats calibration but to no much succes it is still very much there not as dark put still prominenet. My cam is hypercam 183c pro and has this glass element filter screwed on top of sensor. Should i take it off and  lean it with microfiber  cloth or just blow the dust off? 

[Dam]

3 minutes ago, Xilman said:

Check for an eyelash while you have the kit disassembled ...

Ahh will do indeed thanks for pointing out. 

[Dam]

Just a quick update i took my train apart and found this on camera glass😱?? Is this damaged  coating or just a dirt? Not sure if this is culprit but looks very bad.

[david_taurus83]

What camera is that? Looks like someone has already had a go at it by the look of that retaining ring..

[Dam]

4 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

What camera is that? Looks like someone has already had a go at it by the look of that retaining ring..

Its Altair Hypercam 183C Pro. I had it recently purcahed (used) tho. 

[ONIKKINEN]

25 minutes ago, Dam said:

Just a quick update i took my train apart and found this on camera glass😱?? Is this damaged  coating or just a dirt? Not sure if this is culprit but looks very bad.

If you just bought the camera, stop before doing anything to it and return it to the seller. If bought used, good luck, but if bought from a retailer of any renown you will get a new one. From the looks of things it looks like someone has "improved" the camera and left their watermark to where it should not have been left.

[Clarkey]

6 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

Looks like someone has already had a go at it by the look of that retaining ring..

Agreed. Looks like damage to the sensor - although difficult to tell from a photo. I think you would be entitled to ask the seller about it. 

[Dam]

2 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

If you just bought the camera, stop before doing anything to it and return it to the seller. If bought used, good luck, but if bought from a retailer of any renown you will get a new one. From the looks of things it looks like someone has "improved" the camera and left their watermark to where it should not have been left.

Yes bought it as used unfortunately and am guessing am stuck with it now. Yes looks like it a very nice improvement 😄 overall. Wonder if this filter can be replaced with new one? Any thoughts? 

[Dam]

4 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

Agreed. Looks like damage to the sensor - although difficult to tell from a photo. I think you would be entitled to ask the seller about it. 

Agree its hard to tell from pircture but having shined the light on it looks like its a mark on the actual glass / filter as it has a coating on. Email sent to seller just now. Will co tact altair see if they sell those as individual piece. 

[ONIKKINEN]

10 minutes ago, Dam said:

Yes bought it as used unfortunately and am guessing am stuck with it now. Yes looks like it a very nice improvement 😄 overall. Wonder if this filter can be replaced with new one? Any thoughts? 

Above all else i would try to return the camera to the person you bought it from. If they have any shame they would agree to cancel the deal, but i wouldn't hold my breath on that. I dont know about UK laws so cant advice on that but i think this can be interpreted as a fraudulent sale from the looks of things. The previous owner has obviously opened the camera and done that using tools not fit for the purpose (the marks on the ring) so this paints a picture of a complete moron doing something to electronics with no experience on the matter at all. After doing whatever they did to the camera they left some crud possibly on the sensor itself (hard to tell from the image where the mark is, the sensor, the sensor window inside or the outside), which is very difficult to clean. Basically if you dont have a clean room you will get a dust particle or two on the sensor.

Edited June 19, 2022 by ONIKKINEN

[Clarkey]

At least if it is the glass you might be able to replace it. If it was the sensor - no chance.

Just checked the Altair website. It looks like they sell the glass windows as stock - you might be in luck.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Clarkey

[Dam]

2 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Above all else i would try to return the camera to the person you bought it from. If they have any shame they would agree to cancel the deal, but i wouldn't hold my breath on that. I dont know about UK laws so cant advice on that but i think this can be interpreted as a fraudulent sale from the looks of things. The previous owner has obviously opened the camera and done that using tools not fit for the purpose (the marks on the ring) so this paints a picture of a complete nonce doing something to electronics with no experience on the matter at all. After doing whatever they did to the camera they left some crud possibly on the sensor itself (hard to tell from the image where the mark is, the sensor, the sensor window inside or the outside), which is very difficult to clean. Basically if you dont have a clean room you will get a dust particle or two on the sensor.

You are very correct sir and it is an ebay sale so am.hoping am having some kind of cover via paypal but wouldn't hold my breath as seller did state no returns so will dispute it as not fit for purpose . However i wonder if i should attempt to take a ring out and inspect as it seem to be a IR clear filter from what i can tell  so hopefully there is no damage to sensor but dont want to expose sensor to dust.

[Dam]

13 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

At least if it is the glass you might be able to replace it. If it was the sensor - no chance.

Just checked the Altair website. It looks like they sell the glass windows as stock - you might be in luck.

Thank you, you are true gent thanks for checking that for us. I just need to confirm somehow that it is not sensor but the filter galss and too scared to take it off in case dust goes in 

[ONIKKINEN]

6 minutes ago, Dam said:

You are very correct sir and it is an ebay sale so am.hoping am having some kind of cover via paypal but wouldn't hold my breath as seller did state no returns so will dispute it as not fit for purpose . However i wonder if i should attempt to take a ring out and inspect as it seem to be a IR clear filter from what i can tell  so hopefully there is no damage to sensor but dont want to expose sensor to dust.

The proper tool for the job of opening the retaining ring would be a lens spanner:

You can also use circlip pliers or needle nose pliers, but that can be finnicky depending on how tight the retaining ring was tightened and im guessing the previous owner used something like that and had some trouble judging from the scuffs. If the marks are on the glass filter only and are not actual scratches but some kind of dirt then i guess you could just try to clean it with some isopropyl alcohol and something that doesn't have a risk of scratching the glass, like some cotton wool. You should do this in as dust free of an environment as possible and have something nearby to immediately cover the sensor once you remove the glass. And check that what you cover the sensor with is not dusty itself actually. If you're lucky you wont get dust inside the sensor, but household dust suspended in air can easily make its way onto the sensor.

I dont know how this particular camera is built, but if it has desiccant tabs integrated somewhere inside the glass window (like mine), you could also accidentally saturate those if you have high humidity indoors and have a risk of dew forming on the sensor later. That is part of the reason why certain camera manufacturers dont want people poking inside.

[tomato]

This advice is obviously way after the horse has bolted, but if buying used Astro kit without inspecting the items in person, always request up to date photos of the critical items, e.g. lens, mirrors of telescopes and sensors of cameras. It’s not a cast iron guarantee but it will give you some assurance that the equipment is OK. If the seller won’t provide these, I would decline the sale.

[Dam]

13 hours ago, tomato said:

This advice is obviously way after the horse has bolted, but if buying used Astro kit without inspecting the items in person, always request up to date photos of the critical items, e.g. lens, mirrors of telescopes and sensors of cameras. It’s not a cast iron guarantee but it will give you some assurance that the equipment is OK. If the seller won’t provide these, I would decline the sale.

Yes thank you very much and i shouldn't have known that but sort of trusted thr sellr according to their reviews on ebay and the fact that it was good deal i should have be more suspicious but lesson learned. I am only hoping that it is a glass damage rather then sensor but will try and get more pictures at different angle to see if it shows up. Thank you very much. 

[Dam]

14 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

The proper tool for the job of opening the retaining ring would be a lens spanner:

You can also use circlip pliers or needle nose pliers, but that can be finnicky depending on how tight the retaining ring was tightened and im guessing the previous owner used something like that and had some trouble judging from the scuffs. If the marks are on the glass filter only and are not actual scratches but some kind of dirt then i guess you could just try to clean it with some isopropyl alcohol and something that doesn't have a risk of scratching the glass, like some cotton wool. You should do this in as dust free of an environment as possible and have something nearby to immediately cover the sensor once you remove the glass. And check that what you cover the sensor with is not dusty itself actually. If you're lucky you wont get dust inside the sensor, but household dust suspended in air can easily make its way onto the sensor.

I dont know how this particular camera is built, but if it has desiccant tabs integrated somewhere inside the glass window (like mine), you could also accidentally saturate those if you have high humidity indoors and have a risk of dew forming on the sensor later. That is part of the reason why certain camera manufacturers dont want people poking inside.

Thank you for sharing this information i dont think i will ever take one apart as i am not qualified to do so but it is good to know there is dedicated tool for that task. However even if it is only glass damage i will need to find a dedicated near by astronomy place shop to do it for me or the camera place (providing they can do that in safe environment). Thank you.