Another ‘What can I expect to see’ question

[Matt S]

Hey all,

More of a general question to any Skymax-127 (or past Skymax-127 / similar scope) owners. 

It’s not a great time for my planet viewing, and the nice bright Winter objects have dipped below my view now - but it has made me realise that galaxy season is a thing, and since adding go-to to my mount I’m pretty confident with getting to the right place in the sky.

I’ve been looking for some nice galaxy views - within the obvious limits of my FoV.

Just to set the scene: Bortle 5 sky and I’m also spending some time around the target area and attempting averted vision/tapping the scope to try and get my eyes to see more. Also attempting this before the moon rose or wasn’t around.

I’m really interested in understanding if these views are typical of this little Mak, or could i be improving things with better conditions/darker skies/filters.

So far a pick of a few I’ve tried and made notes about:

• NGC 4490/Cocoon Galaxy - SkySafari describes a small telescope revealing a bright core and glow. My experience so far - I couldn’t really make anything out. 99% sure I was in the right spot based on other star positions. 
• M52 - I could actually make out some details here, it was still reasonably faint in the eyepiece but I could make out the star cluster.
• M51 - Now SkySafari says under very good conditions a 4” scope can reveal the spiral arms, my experience so far is a faint smudge at best - Ive also tried this along with M81 in slightly darker skies (Bortle 4) and didn’t really experience much difference (albeit the moon was likely washing things out then).

I realise I’m not using a scope really intended for DSOs - just trying to get an idea of what others have been able to view using it.

 

[wookie1965]

I have never seen M51 through my 4" or 5" refractors from home I have seen M81 and M82 where I could distinguish the shape even M31 is just a blur I am bortle8 though. I go for double and multiple star systems, Clusters and Planetary nebulae.

The ring Nebula M57 is very good in Lyra try that. 

[cloudsweeper]

A bigger aperture, faster 'scope helps with these faint objects.

Even so, all the galaxies I've seen have only been featureless smudges.  (Still great to observe, of course.)  

M51 and companion NGC 5195 appeared as an elongated patch with two brighter foci.  M51 somewhat larger.

Doug.

[chiltonstar]

What eyepieces are you normally using? Certainly with my 127 Mak, many decent galaxy views are possible on a night with excellent transparency. I am Bortle 4 here.

Chris

[Zermelo]

Views of galaxies will be affected quite a bit by your aperture and local sky conditions, in particular the transparency and light pollution (including the moon). And don't forget the importance of dark adaptation, averted vision, a comfortable viewing position and the benefits of experience.

Under average skies with a smaller scope, almost everything will show as a fuzzy patch. It will be a challenge to see any structure, but you should be able to make out the overall shapes where the object is distinctive (example: the difference between M81 and M82) and in some you will see an obvious nucleus as either a brighter patch or sometimes what seems to be a star. Remember that, in many cases, what you are seeing is only a small part of the whole galaxy (as seen in long exposure images), so the shape may not be obvious.

I have used my 127 on galaxies, and I've compared it with my 6" Newtonian. So far, I've not seen any more with the latter. (I'm Bortle 4, by the way). I have yet to see obvious spiral arms. This doesn't diminish the pleasure for me - I'm just happy to see a smudge - but preferences vary.

Specifically on some of the targets you mention:

M51/NGC5195: the best I've managed so far is to see the two nuclei, the nebulosity surrounding the larger one and some hints of structure to it, but no obvious spiral arms.

M52: I recorded seeing 'several dozen' stars at around x75

IC 5146: I think this is quite hard. The best I've managed is to see a very faint nebulosity using a UHC filter. With emission nebulae, filters can make a big difference in what you see (or in seeing anything at all). The size of the exit pupil can also make a difference with the performance of a filter, and with the Skymax having a long focal length you will struggle to find an eyepiece that gets the pupil up to a decent size. Even a 30mm will only give 2.4mm.

[Pixies]

Bear in mind that there's no astronomical darkness now, so the light skies won't help. "Galaxy Season" is over now, for those of us at high North latitudes.

M94, near the Cocoon Galaxy is nice and bright. 

M81 and M82 are also good 'starter' galaxy targets. 

To see structure in M51, even with a larger scope, you'll need dark skies. 

 

There are plenty of globular clusters and planetary nebulae around. Wookie has mentioned M57 (Ring) already.  

[Stu1smartcookie]

As much as many love the summer months , it can and indeed is a frustrating season for dso's . As written above there is no astronomical darkness now therefore i would choose to view mainly double stars , and of course our near neighbour ( no , not her from number 16 🤣 ) , the moon . I live under bortle 5 skies and coupled with what seems like an ever increasing amount of cloud during the summer months you have to take what you can get . 

Soon enough the skies will start to darken , earlier in the evening . I find early spring,  and the autumn season to be very rewarding as the nights are generally more mild and of course the planets that are currently languishing in the morning sky will be making themselves known in the evening soon . 

The 127 Mak is a wonderfully capable scope that punches above its 119mm aperture( controversial) but its main forte is of course lunar and planetary  but there are plenty already mentioned targets that are visible . For me , finding the damn things in the sky  is a challenge . 

[chiltonstar]

When I first started observing  I bought the book The Messier Album, by Mallas and Kremer. This has  most M objects as seen through a 4" refractor. In my experience with both a 4" frac and a 127 Mak, the sketches are accurate for the frac, and reasonably accurate for the 127 Mak as well. Worth a look, it's probably free on the Web somewhere. 

Chrisk

[Matt S]

6 hours ago, chiltonstar said:

This has  most M objects as seen through a 4" refractor. In my experience with both a 4" frac and a 127 Mak, the sketches are accurate for the frac, and reasonably accurate for the 127 Mak as well.

Interesting, thanks - I’ll make a point of checking that out. Sounds like it’ll be really helpful. 
 

12 hours ago, wookie1965 said:

The ring Nebula M57 is very good in Lyra try that.

Ah, thank you - I’ll give that a shot (it was on my list, but I have some rather frustratingly tall trees).  I’ll plan some other targets too based on what has been said here I think. 
 

12 hours ago, cloudsweeper said:

M51 and companion NGC 5195 appeared as an elongated patch with two brighter foci.  M51 somewhat larger.

Thanks, I’m definitely not getting any foci at the moment. I suspect it’s likely conditions on the nights I’ve been out that have limited my view somewhat. 
 

12 hours ago, chiltonstar said:

What eyepieces are you normally using?

I’m using a BST starguider 25mm and a 7.5mm Astro essentials plossl (just for the doubles/planets). 

 

12 hours ago, Zermelo said:

Under average skies with a smaller scope, almost everything will show as a fuzzy patch.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, whilst my sky seems reasonable - I think it / conditions have been the limiting factor for me right now. I’m sure I’m getting some additional glow from a nearby town too. I’ll hopefully be getting down to Devon again soon which should give me some darker sky opportunities. I’d be happy with smudges, I’ve just been struggling to get a view where I can comfortably say I’ve ‘observed it’. 

12 hours ago, Pixies said:

M94, near the Cocoon Galaxy is nice and bright. 

M81 and M82 are also good 'starter' galaxy targets. 

Thanks I’ll add M94 to my list, I’d struggled with M81/82 - I’ll persevere, one thing I’ve learnt in my brief experience so far is that conditions are variable!

9 hours ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

The 127 Mak is a wonderfully capable scope that punches above its 119mm aperture( controversial) but its main forte is of course lunar and planetary  but there are plenty already mentioned targets that are visible

I agree, I’ve been enjoying it so far - I’d quite like to get a complementary scope too, more focused on DSOs, but I’m still starting out so I’d better see how much I can push my Mak first!

Thanks for the thoughts all, that’s helped reassure my expectations of what I can probably get out of this scope with darker skies / better conditions. You’ve given me some additional targets too so that’ll keep me busy.

I’ve never cared about light pollution as much!

 

[Astro_Dad]

For grab and go sessions I tend to use my Heritage 150p for both DSO and planets, but I was curious recently to see how my 102 Maksutov performed on globulars. I was pleasantly surprised to find how well M3 looked - to be honest it looked as well defined as the best I’d seen in the six inch reflector. I’m in Bortle 4 so would assume under good conditions with your 127 you’d achieve even better - not directly answering your questions on the targets referenced but hopefully of interest. 

[Matt S]

Very much of interest, thank you. I don’t have any comparison scopes to really reference against so it’s good to hear from other owners of similar sized scopes. 

[Astro_Dad]

Yes aperture will usually win out in a side by side comparison situation (sky conditions playing a huge part) but perhaps sometimes surprising how small a difference it can be. I’m sure you’ll see plenty of DSO’s with your 127. 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

To be honest you're fighting against nature trying to observe DSOs and especially galaxies during mid summer. Living in an urban area five miles from a city centre I pretty much give up this time of year, switching to lunar and latterly solar observation with some photography of those thrown in. If seeing is particularly good and moon out the way, then very late at night if an opportunity arises I'll tour the globulars, double stars and open clusters.

There's a massive number of objects to observe and become familiar with and plenty of time to do so. Enthusiasm can get the better of us and on occasion lead to disappointment... 

[Stu1smartcookie]

14 hours ago, Matt S said:

I’ve never cared about light pollution as much!

I can empathise with that statement as i'm sure others will also . 

[SuburbanMak]

I've had a Mak 127 as my main scope for 18 months now and am up to 88/110 Messier objects with it.  The best nights I've had have been when I've driven 15 minutes out of town to a decent Bortle 4 site on the South Downs - well worth seeking out a local dark-er spot if you can given the Mak's robust, easy portability. 

Certainly on a few of the most transparent, moonless nights I have seen some structure in  M51 - the two cores linked by a hazy arm. Also some spiral structure in M99 and M61 on one particularly great night last spring.  M104, The Sombrero Galaxy low in Virgo/Corvus looks surprisingly good too with clear shape and a hint of a dust lane. 

Markarian's chain area (including M84 &  M86) is great to wander about in marvelling at all the smudges that are individual galaxies. Leo likewise, with the groups of the The Trio (M65 & M66 usually attainable in the Mak and their fainter companion NGC 3628 popping into averted vision on the best nights) M95/M96 and M105 & its NGC companions usually available (when I say usually, I am referring to moonless nights with decent or better transparency, any high haze or much more than a sliver of moon and I don't bother hunting galaxies). 

M81 & M82 usually look good in the Mak, with a dust stripe occasionally perceptible in M82 and both in the same field of view with my Baader Hyperion 24mm 68 degree (my favourite fuzzy-hunter) or 32mm  & 40mm Plossl EPs. 

M94 is another good bright one to go for and is easy to find being right next door to Cor Caroli - itself a truly beautiful double star.   On that note I do quite a bit of observing of doubles and the Mak is an excellent tool for this, especially at this time of the year when the skies are brighter. The Mak will split doubles down to around 1" of separation on nights of very steady seeing (Tegmen in Cancer is my benchmark for this claim!). 

You should also be able to get reliably good views of the Ring & Dumbell Nebulae (M57 & M27) and the brighter globular clusters like M13 in Hercules, M3 in Canes Venatici (easy to find near Arcturus) and M5 in Serpens are my most visited. M13 and M5 show a "diamond dust' of resolved stars in the almost-5 inch Mak. These are good garden (mid Bortle 5) objects for me for nights when I can't get out to the darker spot 

Many other globulars & countless open clusters are within reach of the Mak 127 - the Auriga open clusters M36, M37 & M38 along with M35 in Gemini and M67 in Cancer all show really well. 

Clear skies and happy hunting! 

Edited May 27, 2022 by SuburbanMak

[Matt S]

On 26/05/2022 at 09:38, wookie1965 said:

The ring Nebula M57 is very good in Lyra try that. 

Just as a follow up, thanks for the tip. Just a brief session this evening as cloud has now blown in (and pesky trees are in the way of my other targets) but this was a real highlight. 
 

Before the cloud, the sky seemed quite good, found it with no problem and even got it in my 7.5mm eyepiece which although still fuzzy I could certainly appreciate something of the brighter ring structure. 

Pleased with that, so thank you all for the advice!