Grab and go scope

[iapa]

9 hours ago, Aaf146 said:

Hi guys, I have an 8" dob but am in the process of looking for a nice grab and go scope.

The problem is my budget is quite limited. The obvious choice would be an st80. Then I saw the st102 is not that much more expensive. I've had a look around and seen some others that might fit the bill.

So there's the bresser ar102xs. Nice and small, easy to mount, some lovely wide field views. The problem is its focal ratio is so fast. Has anyone used this and is the chromatic aberration as bad as I imagine. Plus there doesn't seem to be any info on what Ed glass is used, which seems quite suspect.

Then there's the st102 which doesn't have any ed glass but slightly longer focal ratio which might balance it out. Again its small and an easy grab and go.

 

Or would it be better to get something for a similar price with proper ed like a skywatcher 70mm. Obviously it has a smaller objective lens but again will offer nice wide field views and should suffer less from CA due to the better lens.

If anyone can help me with this it'd be greatly appreciated.

Adam

You have mentioned a couple of options, but what sort of budget do you have?

[Franklin]

3" ED f/7 refractor on a baby alt-az and beefy photo tripod, G+G heaven.

[Alan White]

If you want true grab and go for very short sessions, then I use binoculars, small, portable and instantly usable.

[Aaf146]

17 hours ago, iapa said:

You have mentioned a couple of options, but what sort of budget do you have?

An 80ed is probably my upper limit. Of course if I find one 2nd hand all the better.

[vlaiv]

1 hour ago, Aaf146 said:

An 80ed is probably my upper limit. Of course if I find one 2nd hand all the better.

In that case - take a look at this scope:

https://www.svbony.com/sv503-80ed-f7-doublet-telescope/#-F9359B

It is decent F/7 ED doublet. Very affordable. Not sure how much more you'll have to pay for shipping and import duty.

 

[iapa]

2 hours ago, Aaf146 said:

An 80ed is probably my upper limit. Of course if I find one 2nd hand all the better.

There are many 80ED refractors, e.g. Skywatcher have two lines, Esprit and Evostar (there was also the discontinued Equinox), at different price points.

Hence my question about budget.

I may be missing something when people say ED80 as something being a specific model.

 

[mikeDnight]

The ED80 is a delightful scope, and with a binoviewer can give great lunar and planetary views. A 102mm offers much more punch though. FLO currently have a Starfield 102ED at a reduced price, I think as a customer return. It may be worth checking it out as it would make a great all round grab and go, and a serious stand alone scope.

[Ricochet]

I recently went for a 72ED as a grab and go for those nights when I haven't got the energy to get my 8" dob out (and put it away again). I considered several 80-90mm ED scopes but in the end the weight and maximum field of view were probably the things that swung the decision. I have been very impressed with it optically so far, lunar views are sharp and it can take quite a high magnification relative to its size. Of course a bigger aperture would show more with regards to DSOs but that also means a longer an heavier scope, potentially with more substantial mounting requirements.

[Paz]

I would vote for either a ST80 or a 70-72ED scope, the reason being it has to be significantly more grab and go than an 8" dob or else it will be competing with the dob. An 8" dob is already a pretty convenient/easy to set up.

I think the ST80 is a fine scope for what it is, and it is super light so it makes it possible to use a lighter mount making everything easier. ED/APO scopes tend to be heavier due to better/build quality, beefier focusers etc, and so need a beefier mount which reduces how grab and go the set up is.

[Aaf146]

On 22/05/2022 at 19:21, iapa said:

There are many 80ED refractors, e.g. Skywatcher have two lines, Esprit and Evostar (there was also the discontinued Equinox), at different price points.

Hence my question about budget.

I may be missing something when people say ED80 as something being a specific model.

 

Well I mean something in the 450 odd pounds region. Of course I'm not going to get an ES or Tak 80mm for that sort of money but svbony, skywatcher etc are all around that price point depending on where you look.

[Aaf146]

On 22/05/2022 at 21:44, Ricochet said:

I recently went for a 72ED as a grab and go for those nights when I haven't got the energy to get my 8" dob out (and put it away again). I considered several 80-90mm ED scopes but in the end the weight and maximum field of view were probably the things that swung the decision. I have been very impressed with it optically so far, lunar views are sharp and it can take quite a high magnification relative to its size. Of course a bigger aperture would show more with regards to DSOs but that also means a longer an heavier scope, potentially with more substantial mounting requirements.

That's my thinking. I'm on my feet for around 12 hrs a day and don't get back from work till half 10 at night so I haven't always got the energy to take my dob out.  It'd be nice to have something I can take out, look for an hour and carry back in in one go, nice and easy.

[Ricochet]

1 hour ago, Aaf146 said:

.  It'd be nice to have something I can take out, look for an hour and carry back in in one go, nice and easy.

The 72ed certainly fits the bill for that. When I started looking at the stats the F7.5 80ED is quite a bit bigger than the F6 72ED. An alternative option which falls between the two is the Stellamira F6 80ED. 

[KP82]

Re: Bresser AR102xs. I had one and used it for about 6 months two years ago. Like others have said the CA was surprisingly well controlled for a f/4.6 achro. However don't let the use of unknown ED glass fools you, it is still a very fast achro. If you intend to use it other than widefields, you'll need to set your expectation straight. Personally I'd never go above 90x in mag (that was with a 5mm BST) or otherwise everything felt soft/bloated. 

A 60 - 80ED would be my recommendation if your budget allows. Just remember most of the 80ED f/6 scopes are triplets, so they will cost quite a bit more and be heavier than the doublets. Stellarmira offers quite a few good options: 66ED f/6 and 80ED f/6.25. The build quality is a notch above the Skywatcher equivalents.

Edited May 24, 2022 by KP82

[Ags]

I have the William Optics 66 ED and pleased with it, meaning of course I want to upgrade 😆 

Currently looking at the Explore Scientific 80 f6 triplets - the basic version is not a lot more than the Stellamira doublet, and they are very short and light tubes so good for travel.

[Aaf146]

1 hour ago, Ricochet said:

The 72ed certainly fits the bill for that. When I started looking at the stats the F7.5 80ED is quite a bit bigger than the F6 72ED. An alternative option which falls between the two is the Stellamira F6 80ED. 

Yeah, there are a handful of f6 80mm lurking about. I'm tempted to go for a 70 ish mm doublet and then at a later date I could possibly upgrade to 80, 90, 100.

[Aaf146]

1 hour ago, KP82 said:

Re: Bresser AR102xs. I had one and used it for about 6 months two years ago. Like others have said the CA was surprisingly well controlled for a f/4.6 achro. However don't let the use of unknown ED glass fools you, it is still a very fast achro. If you intend to use it other than widefields, you'll need to set your expectation straight. Personally I'd never go above 90x in mag (that was with a 5mm BST) or otherwise everything felt soft/bloated. 

A 60 - 80ED would be my recommendation if your budget allows. Just remember most of the 80ED f/6 scopes are triplets, so they will cost quite a bit more and be heavier than the doublets. Stellarmira offers quite a few good options: 66ED f/6 and 80ED f/6.25. The build quality is a notch above the Skywatcher equivalents.

Yeah it'll definitely have to be a doublet. Triplet is outside my budget, plus my wife may just bury me under the patio if I spend too much.

I was thinking f4.5 seems way too fast, even with ED glass, glad to have my suspicions confirmed. 

[Aaf146]

1 hour ago, Ags said:

I have the William Optics 66 ED and pleased with it, meaning of course I want to upgrade 😆 

Currently looking at the Explore Scientific 80 f6 triplets - the basic version is not a lot more than the Stellamira doublet, and they are very short and light tubes so good for travel.

When does the upgrading ever end though. That's the trouble.

[PeterStudz]

On 22/05/2022 at 07:57, Alan White said:

If you want true grab and go for very short sessions, then I use binoculars, small, portable and instantly usable.

I have an 8 inch Dob and I use binoculars before most sessions. As well as being fun and something in its own right it helps me:

1. Relax and get my eyes use to the dark while the Dob cools. Relaxing is just as important as getting eyes in tune with the dark.

2. See what the quality of the sky is like.

3. Plan star hops. Since I’ve had binoculars every new star hop is planned in binoculars first. It’s so much easier and saves time at the finder & eyepiece.

And some objects, like open clusters, actually look better in my binoculars than they do in the Dob. So I end up seeing more than I would with just the Dob. 

[vlaiv]

2 hours ago, Aaf146 said:

Yeah, there are a handful of f6 80mm lurking about. I'm tempted to go for a 70 ish mm doublet and then at a later date I could possibly upgrade to 80, 90, 100.

How do you feel about quadruplet then?

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p14747_TS-Optics-62-mm-f-8-4-4-Element-Flatfield-Refractor-for-Observation-and-Photography.html

 

[badhex]

3 hours ago, Aaf146 said:

Yeah, there are a handful of f6 80mm lurking about. I'm tempted to go for a 70 ish mm doublet and then at a later date I could possibly upgrade to 80, 90, 100.

From my personal experience, I would say that if you can't go for a ~100mm doublet straight away, going for ~70mm doublet definitely makes sense. I would however probably not go from 70mm to anything less than 100mm - I have 73mm, 80mm and a 102mm refractors and the 80mm never gets used any more. It's a lovely scope but it doesn't show significantly more than the ZS73, isn't as portable as either the ZS73 or 102 with their retractable dew shields, but yet requires a mount which is about the same class as that which the 102 needs. 

The smaller scope I have is a William Optics ZS73 F5.9 doublet which I can strongly recommend for the very high quality of the optics and build, and also how compact it is for storage and transport purposes - crucial for any grab and go. Cooldown times are minimal, the optics are remarkable - it really punches above its weight and is surprisingly good even on the planets despite the short focal length. Thanks to the retractable dewshield I can fit the scope, mount (AZ-GTi), diagonal/eyepieces and other accessories (basically everything except the tripod) in one backpack making it easy to store, and simple to take to other, darker sites when required which I have done many times. Once set up, the whole thing can be moved with one hand, although I usually use two for safety's sake! 🙂

I also have a TS-Optics 102 F7 ED (identical to the Starfield 102 F7 ED) which I got at the end of last year. I would not necessarily consider this an upgrade per se, as the larger size means it's still easily movable but will require a sturdier mount and tripod than the ZS73 and is therefore a bit less portable overall. It also takes a bit longer to cool down, but not drastically. It's a fantastic scope, great build quality on par with the ZS73, and due to the increased aperture obviously will show you quite a bit more. As pointed out by many others here in SGL, this class of refractor also has the advantage of being able to give reasonable widefield views (about 4 degrees of sky) at one end, and 200x at the other, skies permitting, which makes for a very flexible observing experience. It was was this point that convinced me to take the plunge, and I have not been disappointed.

I tend now to use the 102 more at home and the 73 for travel or out of the house. If I had to choose only one, I would be torn - and reluctantly say the 102mm due to the larger aperture and observing flexibility, but they are both really very good scopes, and you would definitely not be disappointed with either.

Pictures of both scopes below for reference (plus the ZS73 in backpack mode) 

[Ags]

To be fair, 80mm scopes come in all shapes and sizes. There's that F15 version, the common Skywatcher F7.5 ED, and the ES triplet I mentioned has 34cm transport length.

I feel 100mm is just a bit big but 80mm might be a bit small. But 90mms are definitely a bit expensive!

[Aaf146]

5 hours ago, badhex said:

From my personal experience, I would say that if you can't go for a ~100mm doublet straight away, going for ~70mm doublet definitely makes sense. I would however probably not go from 70mm to anything less than 100mm - I have 73mm, 80mm and a 102mm refractors and the 80mm never gets used any more. It's a lovely scope but it doesn't show significantly more than the ZS73, isn't as portable as either the ZS73 or 102 with their retractable dew shields, but yet requires a mount which is about the same class as that which the 102 needs. 

The smaller scope I have is a William Optics ZS73 F5.9 doublet which I can strongly recommend for the very high quality of the optics and build, and also how compact it is for storage and transport purposes - crucial for any grab and go. Cooldown times are minimal, the optics are remarkable - it really punches above its weight and is surprisingly good even on the planets despite the short focal length. Thanks to the retractable dewshield I can fit the scope, mount (AZ-GTi), diagonal/eyepieces and other accessories (basically everything except the tripod) in one backpack making it easy to store, and simple to take to other, darker sites when required which I have done many times. Once set up, the whole thing can be moved with one hand, although I usually use two for safety's sake! 🙂

I also have a TS-Optics 102 F7 ED (identical to the Starfield 102 F7 ED) which I got at the end of last year. I would not necessarily consider this an upgrade per se, as the larger size means it's still easily movable but will require a sturdier mount and tripod than the ZS73 and is therefore a bit less portable overall. It also takes a bit longer to cool down, but not drastically. It's a fantastic scope, great build quality on par with the ZS73, and due to the increased aperture obviously will show you quite a bit more. As pointed out by many others here in SGL, this class of refractor also has the advantage of being able to give reasonable widefield views (about 4 degrees of sky) at one end, and 200x at the other, skies permitting, which makes for a very flexible observing experience. It was was this point that convinced me to take the plunge, and I have not been disappointed.

I tend now to use the 102 more at home and the 73 for travel or out of the house. If I had to choose only one, I would be torn - and reluctantly say the 102mm due to the larger aperture and observing flexibility, but they are both really very good scopes, and you would definitely not be disappointed with either.

Pictures of both scopes below for reference (plus the ZS73 in backpack mode) 

Yeah I didn't mean go up 10mm at a time, more than I'll start off small and then jump up in size as and when I can. Really nice scopes btw. Hopefully one day for me haha

[Aaf146]

8 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

I have an 8 inch Dob and I use binoculars before most sessions. As well as being fun and something in its own right it helps me:

1. Relax and get my eyes use to the dark while the Dob cools. Relaxing is just as important as getting eyes in tune with the dark.

2. See what the quality of the sky is like.

3. Plan star hops. Since I’ve had binoculars every new star hop is planned in binoculars first. It’s so much easier and saves time at the finder & eyepiece.

And some objects, like open clusters, actually look better in my binoculars than they do in the Dob. So I end up seeing more than I would with just the Dob. 

I do have some binos as well and they definitely get used. I do like you and check out my star hope first, then if I struggle to find the object with the scope I will go back to binos to try again.

[badhex]

9 hours ago, Aaf146 said:

Yeah I didn't mean go up 10mm at a time, more than I'll start off small and then jump up in size as and when I can. Really nice scopes btw. Hopefully one day for me haha

Haha yes understood! I probably wasn't very clear, but what I meant was that those two scopes now have different use cases as well, so purchasing the larger scope hasn't stopped the ZS73 from being useful. 

There are a number of scopes from different brands which are essentially identical to the ZS73, i.e. same factory - I believe Altair, RVO and TS and possibly Svbony, which may be a bit cheaper, so worth looking around, but at the price point listed on FLO for the ZS73 you can't really go wrong. 

[badhex]

12 hours ago, Ags said:

To be fair, 80mm scopes come in all shapes and sizes. There's that F15 version, the common Skywatcher F7.5 ED, and the ES triplet I mentioned has 34cm transport length.

I feel 100mm is just a bit big but 80mm might be a bit small. But 90mms are definitely a bit expensive!

Yeah, the 102mm is definitely *less* portable, I wouldn't be likely to take it away on holiday, but the setup in the photo takes me <15mins to set up from scratch or 2mins to move outside if it's already set up. As it is also fully manual there's no alignment or otherwise to do. 

The 80mm I have is a SW Evostar, F7.5. It's a shame they don't also have a retractable dewshield as it would be a very compact scope, although SW seem to have started doing them for the Evolux series.