Atik Apx60

[Tom OD]

Well it has been a long wait but my new camera finally arrived.

My Atik 11meg camera stopped communicating lat year, and Olly kindly let me use his while I waited for my new camera to arrive.

The specs compared to the Atik 11 meg are very impressive. You can read more about that here:

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/blog/comparing-the-imx455-industry-grade-and-kai-11002-35mm-format-monochrome-sensors/

 

So whats in the box?

Well the camera, which is nice and beefy at 1.1Kg.

The power plug is sadly a cigarette lighter, so I could only test this camera at home, but sitting in the car and keep it running to cool and obtain the darks. I was hoping for a proper AC adapter plug from 220v.

The USB 3 cable is nice and heavy duty. It does provide a good solid connection (as does the power plug) to the back of the camera. No small USB B/C cable connectors here. These should not ever give connection issues.

There is a 2inch nose piece adapter

The documentation doesn't actually mention anything in the list of cameras about the Apx60. The booklet needs to be updated. It does have SGL Ollys pic on the front and back from other Atik cameras.

There is a tilt plate with push and pull screws on it. Some may not like to play with these without any documentation about them in the booklet.

I do like the mark where the back focus can be measured from.

So I m attaching some pics of the camera and a 5min dark. It has some horizontal lines on it but we'll see how it all stacks out when I take loads and use it on a light frame. I ve read that some people aren't even using darks with these chips. (IMX455)

Now I just need to get it to get it to my observatory, install it and test it all out. I hope I can it up with the TEC 1m, to avail of the small pixels and get some 1 arc second detailed lum frames.

Each file is 119MB!! with download speeds of apprx 1s. It was 30s with the 11 meg camera. This will save a lot of time in focus routines, plate solving etc...

Pixels 3.76 microns

Full frame IMX455 chip

QE up to 87%

Well depth 51000

Dark current 1.2e at the lowest

Tom

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Tom OD
Left out more info

[ollypenrice]

I look forward to meeting this astonishing bit of technology!

Olly

[Tom OD]

1 minute ago, ollypenrice said:

I look forward to meeting this astonishing bit of technology!

Olly

Should be fun in Galaxy season.

I didnt see any mention in Artmeis capture about gain settings.  Must admit I had forgotten about that so maybe i just missed it.

[gorann]

Congratulations Tom for an amazing camera and welcome to the CMOS world! I assume it is the mono version and that you did not jump all the way to an OSC.

Just curious, why did you spend the extra almost 2000 GBP compared to the ASI 6200MM (which I have)?

[Tom OD]

4 minutes ago, gorann said:

Congratulations Tom for an amazing camera and welcome to the CMOS world! I assume it is the mono version and that you did not jump all the way to an OSC.

Just curious, why did you spend the extra almost 2000 GBP compared to the ASI 6200MM (which I have)?

Thanks Gorann, it was only a matter of time before I entered the CMOS world. My old 11 meg CCD finally died on me last year after 11 years.

I have the 50mm filters and filter wheel, so getting the Mono seemed like the right move. I'll be doing plenty of Ha and O3 imaging too, so I d prefer the extra signal with the mono camera.

As for the cost, well it was initially quoted as about 1000 cheaper, but then the costs seemed to keep going up as the wait went on and on. I have only used Atik cameras in deep sky imaging from day one. The exception was Ollys side of our dual Tak which had

a Starlight Express camera I think on it. I like their products, I ve had the 314, used the 4000, 690 I think,  and of course the 11000. I also know and have meet some of the Atik people, and have had a good response from them regarding s/w issues before. So I decided to stick with them.

I do have ZWO cameras a the guide camera and all sky camera in the observatory, but wanted to go with Atik.  If there are any issues I feel more comfortable that they are just across the sea to help.

 

Tom

[ollypenrice]

10 hours ago, Tom OD said:

Thanks Gorann, it was only a matter of time before I entered the CMOS world. My old 11 meg CCD finally died on me last year after 11 years.

I have the 50mm filters and filter wheel, so getting the Mono seemed like the right move. I'll be doing plenty of Ha and O3 imaging too, so I d prefer the extra signal with the mono camera.

As for the cost, well it was initially quoted as about 1000 cheaper, but then the costs seemed to keep going up as the wait went on and on. I have only used Atik cameras in deep sky imaging from day one. The exception was Ollys side of our dual Tak which had

a Starlight Express camera I think on it. I like their products, I ve had the 314, used the 4000, 690 I think,  and of course the 11000. I also know and have meet some of the Atik people, and have had a good response from them regarding s/w issues before. So I decided to stick with them.

I do have ZWO cameras a the guide camera and all sky camera in the observatory, but wanted to go with Atik.  If there are any issues I feel more comfortable that they are just across the sea to help.

 

Tom

We dd briefly use Yves' SX H36 in the Tak dual rig and, less briefly, Gonmus' Moravian in the TEC.

For me a big Atik plus is not having to use third party software, some of which seems infernally over-thought to me. The simple matter of filing image x in location y is far too simple for many of these packages.  And, as you say, Atik are local with a stable team and a speedy and personal response to any queries. I think they were a bit late to the CMOS party but, now that they're here, it's good news.

Atik have always been my go-to manufacturer as well.

Olly

 

[Sp@ce_d]

Looking forward to seeing some results from this Tom. My first Astro CCD was an Atik & I still have 3 of 'em! My experience of communication & servicing/repairs from them has been very positive & that includes my QSI too. Although I did see a thread on here a while back that they may have moved this out to Portugal since then. Thought it was a bit of a shame they seem to have been left behind in the CMOS transition in the astro market.

[ollypenrice]

1 hour ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Looking forward to seeing some results from this Tom. My first Astro CCD was an Atik & I still have 3 of 'em! My experience of communication & servicing/repairs from them has been very positive & that includes my QSI too. Although I did see a thread on here a while back that they may have moved this out to Portugal since then. Thought it was a bit of a shame they seem to have been left behind in the CMOS transition in the astro market.

Atik had a facility in Portugal almost from the start, I think, but it's run by Rui Tripa who's as good as guy as you could ever hope to meet. He's been more than helpful to me on occasion.

Olly

[tomato]

I think which camera supplier  you go for depends a lot on previous experience and the value placed on peace of mind. I needed a second IMX571 sensor camera and my budget simply would not stretch to the established brands. As far as I can see, my RisingCam version for under £1000 is performing just as well my £1800 QHY version, but the decision will come home to roost if it has an issue under warranty, but  I have been collecting data from two scopes for the last 5 months instead of trying to save up for a premium camera in an inflationary market.

With regard to Starlight Express, do they intend to launch a CMOS range of cameras? I know they built a solid reputation on their CCD models but they must have seen astro camera sales suffer in recent years.

[Sp@ce_d]

2 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Atik had a facility in Portugal almost from the start, I think, but it's run by Rui Tripa who's as good as guy as you could ever hope to meet. He's been more than helpful to me on occasion.

Olly

Yes, sorry Olly I wasn't clear enough, I meant the servicing. The last ones I sent in went to Norwich. Now I've had a search this is the thread I was thinking of.. seems they moved servicing out to Portugal as well. I guess Toms comment "just across the sea" could apply to the Atlantic as well as the Irish Sea 🤣 

 

[ollypenrice]

37 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Yes, sorry Olly I wasn't clear enough, I meant the servicing. The last ones I sent in went to Norwich. Now I've had a search this is the thread I was thinking of.. seems they moved servicing out to Portugal as well. I guess Toms comment "just across the sea" could apply to the Atlantic as well as the Irish Sea 🤣 

 

Tom's always at sea!

🤣lly

Edited May 19, 2022 by ollypenrice

[david_taurus83]

FYI I got my camera back without any customs drama attached. If you do need to send it back to Atik for any reason the wait may just be a bit longer as they will ship stuff out to Portugal in one go and probably vice versa.

[harry page]

Hi

The build quality looks very good indeed , I have the qhy600 and perhapes does not look as pretty

Anyway I Have only had a very quick go at some Ha ( 1 sub ) as the spec seemed to show a much better response and my intial comparison with my old sx h35 looks very

promising indeed  both the crops down below are 10min subs and the imx455 chip is clearly way in the lead

looking forward to imaging with this chip

I will not be throwing away my ccds but they may be getting less use

Harry

[Tom OD]

On 19/05/2022 at 15:12, Sp@ce_d said:

Yes, sorry Olly I wasn't clear enough, I meant the servicing. The last ones I sent in went to Norwich. Now I've had a search this is the thread I was thinking of.. seems they moved servicing out to Portugal as well. I guess Toms comment "just across the sea" could apply to the Atlantic as well as the Irish Sea 🤣 

 

Ha ha. Actually I was thinking more of Norwich than Portugal, but both work. EU to EU shipping from here might even be better even if further away. 
man’s yep I m always at sea 😂

[Tom OD]

23 hours ago, harry page said:

Hi

The build quality looks very good indeed , I have the qhy600 and perhapes does not look as pretty

Anyway I Have only had a very quick go at some Ha ( 1 sub ) as the spec seemed to show a much better response and my intial comparison with my old sx h35 looks very

promising indeed  both the crops down below are 10min subs and the imx455 chip is clearly way in the lead

looking forward to imaging with this chip

I will not be throwing away my ccds but they may be getting less use

Harry

That’s a huge difference. Without reading I would have thought this was a single frame verse 5-10 frame stack comparison 

Can’t wait to get it up and running. 
Tom 

[harry page]

42 minutes ago, Tom OD said:

That’s a huge difference. Without reading I would have thought this was a single frame verse 5-10 frame stack comparison 

Can’t wait to get it up and running. 
Tom 

Hi

with testing on darks etc I have found so far its very quiet

With the qhy there is a " usb speed " slider in the driver which when adjusted gives a way off reducing the horizontal lines , in fact I have none

do not know if there is a option with the Atik ?

Harry

[Tom OD]

16 hours ago, harry page said:

Hi

with testing on darks etc I have found so far its very quiet

With the qhy there is a " usb speed " slider in the driver which when adjusted gives a way off reducing the horizontal lines , in fact I have none

do not know if there is a option with the Atik ?

Harry

I didn’t notice that in the Artemis Capture software. I didn’t notice any gain setting either though. 
This is what made it a little frustrating that the new camera was not mentioned in the booklet. I ll figure it out. 
Tom 

[Sp@ce_d]

16 minutes ago, Tom OD said:

I didn’t notice that in the Artemis Capture software. I didn’t notice any gain setting either though. 
This is what made it a little frustrating that the new camera was not mentioned in the booklet. I ll figure it out. 
Tom 

Maybe it has different settings using the ascom driver?

[tomato]

On the IMX571 cameras having a high  USB speed or limit setting helps a lot with eliminating the horizontal banding, as does using a decent quality USB 3 cable, but I'm assuming Atik haven't skimped on the cable quality. 

[Tom OD]

41 minutes ago, tomato said:

On the IMX571 cameras having a high  USB speed or limit setting helps a lot with eliminating the horizontal banding, as does using a decent quality USB 3 cable, but I'm assuming Atik haven't skimped on the cable quality. 

The USB 3 cable is a high speed version and quite beefy too. Very different to the ZWO thin flat cable cable  got with the smaller guide and all sky cam I have.

[Tom OD]

1 hour ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Maybe it has different settings using the ascom driver?

It might I use SGP as the sequencer, so maybe its buried in there somewhere under the camera settings / mode.

[whipdry]

43 minutes ago, Tom OD said:

It might I use SGP as the sequencer, so maybe its buried in there somewhere under the camera settings / mode.

For anyone interested here's a link to the pdf manual... 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.atik-cameras.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Apx60-astro-manual.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjR19T9zvD3AhWHa8AKHeVvCzUQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2uBsDxn93Pvw77_BR9O_uD

 

Peter

[gorann]

2 hours ago, Tom OD said:

The USB 3 cable is a high speed version and quite beefy too. Very different to the ZWO thin flat cable cable  got with the smaller guide and all sky cam I have.

Great point! For anyone that did not know it, investing in good USB3 cables and avoiding the flat ones supplied by ZWO can solve many problems.

[Tom OD]

1 hour ago, whipdry said:

For anyone interested here's a link to the pdf manual... 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.atik-cameras.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Apx60-astro-manual.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjR19T9zvD3AhWHa8AKHeVvCzUQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2uBsDxn93Pvw77_BR9O_uD

 

Peter

Ahh thats great thanks. Good to see the explanations of  gain and offsets. I imagine thats the most asked question from newbie CMOS imagers. I think I'll be taking lots of test shots to figure out what suits what objects.

I didnt get the allen keys or the desicant tool in the box though. Luckily I have plenty of tools at hand.

Tom

[gorann]

8 hours ago, Tom OD said:

Ahh thats great thanks. Good to see the explanations of  gain and offsets. I imagine thats the most asked question from newbie CMOS imagers. I think I'll be taking lots of test shots to figure out what suits what objects.

I didnt get the allen keys or the desicant tool in the box though. Luckily I have plenty of tools at hand.

Tom

I assume that the ATIK camera has a similar circuit to that of the ASI, which at a certain gain (100 for ASI2600) gives a magical drop in read out noise (making most users use gain 100). However, I could not see any details on this in the ATIK manual.

Edited May 21, 2022 by gorann