UK Light pollution is decreasing...

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

An article in today's Guardian highlighting the work of CPRE and their conclusion suggesting the latest star count shows light pollution decreased at the beginning of the pandemic and this year continued to fall...

Although the opposite seems to be true in my area. Horizon to horizon there is a whiteish glow up to at least 50°. I've no doubt light pollution has increased over the last three years due to the proliferation of LED street lighting plus powerful LEDs at retail parks and huge logistics complexes.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/17/light-pollution-falling-amid-soaring-energy-prices-star-survey

 

[Adam J]

11 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

An article in today's Guardian highlighting the work of CPRE and their conclusion suggesting the latest star count shows light pollution decreased at the beginning of the pandemic and this year continued to fall...

Although the opposite seems to be true in my area. Horizon to horizon there is a whiteish glow up to at least 50°. I've no doubt light pollution has increased over the last three years due to the proliferation of LED street lighting plus powerful LEDs at retail parks and huge logistics complexes.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/17/light-pollution-falling-amid-soaring-energy-prices-star-survey

 

Yea there is no way its fallen here, if anything its gone up by a massive amount. The sky glows white now and every single retail and industrial site in the city has poorly fitted white lite LEDs. It that is not enough on its own then we are also seeing every man and his dog getting those wall lights that point straight up on there house and leaving them on all night long.

What might have caused the result is less cars on the road as headlights do make a contribution to light pollution. 

Adam  

[Mr Spock]

Not here. I have the 'grey glow' from LED streetlights all over my sky. 

Previously, pre LEDs, the whole of of my eastern sky was orange, but the west not too bad. I could even see the milky way. Not seen that now for years 😡

[wulfrun]

I think I'd have to question the statistical validity of the conclusion based on such a small change. The method is somewhat dependent on the conditions during the count too.

Like yourself @ScouseSpaceCadet , I think that it has not improved here. Despite increasing energy costs, I haven't noticed any of the local, badly-aimed and overpowered insecurity lights being turned off. A couple of minutes at a time of a 20W LED light is still not worth fretting over, cost-wise...yet!

My council certainly haven't done any streetlight switching and my SE aspect (city centre) is an even more obvious orange glow since the local sidestreets are now LED-white lighting.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

1 minute ago, Adam J said:

Yea there is no way its fallen here, if anything its gone up by a massive amount. The sky glows white now and every single retail and industrial site in the city has poorly fitted white lite LEDs. It that is not enough on its own then we are also seeing every man and his dog getting those wall lights that point straight up on there house and leaving them on all night long.

What might have caused the result is less cars on the road as headlights do make a contribution to light pollution. 

Adam  

Very much my experience. To be fair, during the 2020 lockdowns there was an obvious massive consistent, temporary improvement in transparency I'm attributing to less road and air traffic but the sky has without a doubt become brighter over the last year or so.

[scarp15]

Interesting but a bit hard to swallow in credibility. Business Parks and such impinging onto greenbelt fringe land continue to expand as out of city boundary developments 'mushroom' everywhere with their supposive required lighting and access road infrastructure. 

[KP82]

Doubt it.

My house is on the edge of a small estate in a semi-rural area. The skies towards the west and north west are decently dark (farmlands), but in the south it's a completely different condition. I've been seeing increasing white glow in the sky. To make matter worse, one of the neighbours moved in recently installed an upward facing overpowered floodlight that points at his house and is on all night. The direct beam is blocked by another neighbour's garage from where I am but the reflections off the nearby houses are horrendous.

Edited May 17, 2022 by KP82

[Pixies]

I'm lucky in that it has certainly improved locally for me. The switch to well designed LED street lighting has worked wonders. I can see faint objects with direct vision this year that before I could barely make out with averted vision.  One direction is worse though, and that is down to those god-awful electronic LED advertising boards.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Pixies

[skyhog]

I'm in the definite improvement camp. Fortunately there are no commercial premises around me and the residential lighting makes the area very much darker than the old sodium lights. It's rather amusing to hear neighbours complain about it being darker. Away from the roads some of the pathways are very dark. Actually see head torches when I'm out walking the dog👍

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

40 minutes ago, skyhog said:

I'm in the definite improvement camp. Fortunately there are no commercial premises around me and the residential lighting makes the area very much darker than the old sodium lights. It's rather amusing to hear neighbours complain about it being darker. Away from the roads some of the pathways are very dark. Actually see head torches when I'm out walking the dog👍

Good news for you.👍 I'm guessing you live in a semi rural or edge of suburbia area? So quite dark beforehand but sensible LED lighting has improved matters?

[skyhog]

Yes, that's more or less correct. Light pollution is essentially road lighting which has been replaced in its entirety. 

[skyhog]

Probably going a tad off topic but it will be interesting to see how huge energy rises make local councils think about their usage. There are a few villages I know of that extinguish road lamps at midnight for example. Perhaps that will become a consideration. 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

10 minutes ago, skyhog said:

Yes, that's more or less correct. Light pollution is essentially road lighting which has been replaced in its entirety. 

I wonder if that's the general pattern? Darker places becoming darker due to the replacement of old lighting stock, while us lot stuck in or on the boundary of cities surrounded by the likes of warehouses, retail parks and bright as day roads feel the pinch? ☹️

Your comment regarding councils and energy prices is totally on topic... If the energy costs continue to rise, surely businesses and councils will need to rethink?

Edited May 17, 2022 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[tompato]

It's not too bad here, neighbours don't have anything silly and the council turns off all the streetlights after 11.45pm, other than a single light on the corner of each road and on the larger roads through town. I assume cost cutting, but it suits astronomy. We moved in a few months pre-Covid so I'm not sure what it was like beforehand though really.

[DaveS]

My nearest street lights appear to be a mixture of LED and HP sodium. However, since they are about 5 miles away they aren't too much of a problem.

[skyhog]

33 minutes ago, tompato said:

It's not too bad here, neighbours don't have anything silly and the council turns off all the streetlights after 11.45pm, other than a single light on the corner of each road and on the larger roads through town. I assume cost cutting, but it suits astronomy. We moved in a few months pre-Covid so I'm not sure what it was like beforehand though really.

If councils were doing this already I'd expect a lot more to be considering it  now. I know energy increases are THE topic at the moment but I'm still convinced a lot of people don't know the sheer scale of the economic shock to come. I'm not being patronising saying that either. 

[Zermelo]

I'd like to be proved wrong, but I'm not holding out any hope that councils that have not already taken steps are going to do so now because of electricity prices.

[skyhog]

9 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

I'd like to be proved wrong, but I'm not holding out any hope that councils that have not already taken steps are going to do so now because of electricity prices.

Perhaps, but the sheer scale of the increase could certainly make it a bigger prospect. I also think that authorities will look at all the cost cutting measures that other councils use, and turning off street lights is quite a common method. As you say, fingers crossed. 

[SteveNickolls]

It would be nice to imagine light pollution levels have reduced and pleased for some on SGL. I've been keeping local records of the conditions where I live these past three years and  overall levels have improved from 19.27 to 19.29, little to shout about really. Locally we are having three new housing estates being built, one of 1100 homes and a main access road with street lights so I can't see levels improving longer term. 

Electricity prices may rise steeply to affect domestic consumption and make some think about running cost in the future but remember those canny ones with solar powered lights left on all night after watching the ubiquitous home and garden make over shows. I know a neighbour like that. Ha, we might all be using party lights fed from solar to light our living rooms come the pinch.

Cheers,

Steve

[Andy ES]

5 minutes ago, SteveNickolls said:

we might all be using party lights fed from solar to light our living rooms come the pinch.

Already doing this but how do I stop them flashing?? 😂

[chiltonstar]

My LP levels have gone down after our village started the switch to LED, but the blue band in the lamps emission spectrum has made the sky a bit worse than it was with Na lamps. Why they couldn't yellow-filter the lamps I do not know. As well as reducing scatter for motorists (and us), they will have to scrape all the bugs off the lamps at regular intervals.

I see a couple of light "domes" that are new and have appeared since to switch to LED.

Chris

 

[Shimrod]

9 hours ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

 

Although the opposite seems to be true in my area. Horizon to horizon there is a whiteish glow up to at least 50°. I've no doubt light pollution has increased over the last three years due to the proliferation of LED street lighting plus powerful LEDs at retail parks and huge logistics complexes.

 

There's a huge logistics park at Knowsley (on the right as you drive down the M57 to Switch Island) which turns the whole sky white. No one who lives in that area will be doing visual astronomy - I'm not sure you'd even see the full moon!

[Ags]

Here in Holland I have the sense light pollution has worsened over the past ten years. I would definitely say making out star shapes like Bootes or even Leo has slipped from difficult to impossible. I can't make out all the stars of the Leo question mark for example, and while I recall Bootes looked like a large retrovirus, I simply can't make out the shape now.

Could be my ageing eyes though... 

[maw lod qan]

I hope from what I see is that over here some designers are becoming "aware" of the issue. Some of the large residential developments are using better shielded street lamps and limited outside lighting on homes.

But yes, large shopping areas are running parking lot lights and all their exterior lights all night long.

When I look at Florida from space, I can see the small town I live in at night.

We have thousands of building contractors who have plans drawn up to the customer's wishes, then it's built with only structural engineering being the concern.

If commercial businesses just cut the unnecessary night lights by half I think it would not only help the LP, but global warming as well.

[Ags]

29 minutes ago, maw lod qan said:

When I look at Florida from space, I can see the small town I live in at night.

 

😮