Pentax XW 3.5mm v Tak TOE 4mm v Vixen SLV 4mm

[Deadlake]

45 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

I’d heard they were just shutting down production for a while as a result of supply difficulties Jeremy, but this was a few weeks ago. Hope this latest report isn’t true. 

Hopefully, don’t want to feel it’s the same as when Vixen stopped HR production and then everyone rushed to get the remaining sets….

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Anyone compared a TOE 3.3 to HR 3.6 mm?

I vaguely recall Tamiji Homma on CN doing a comparison via an eyepiece turret on his APO some time back.  I don't have time tonight to search for it, but perhaps you could find it.  This might be it, but I recall a longer post on the subject.

[Sunshine]

I can say that my Pentax 3.5 is well built, sharp from edge to edge, and has good eye relief. 

[Deadlake]

4 hours ago, Louis D said:

I vaguely recall Tamiji Homma on CN doing a comparison via an eyepiece turret on his APO some time back.  I don't have time tonight to search for it, but perhaps you could find it.  This might be it, but I recall a longer post on the subject.

Tamiji would 😁😁😁

[Mr Spock]

I'd like to do the comparison myself rather than read about it. It's difficult to know if people are being objective or not when some brands are surrounded by a type of euphoria.

[Highburymark]

3 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

I'd like to do the comparison myself rather than read about it. It's difficult to know if people are being objective or not when some brands are surrounded by a type of euphoria.

Precisely why I said I ain’t no Takahashi eyepiece fanboy.  
The differences between most modern eyepieces are so small that they come down to personal preferences. So when something really stands out, it’s worth highlighting - just as the Vixen HRs were  praised when they were still available. Astronomers had been calling out for some new, top tier planetary eyepieces for ages before Vixen and Takahashi duly delivered. If we are now going to lose the TOEs as well as the HRs, it might be the last chance to grab one.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Highburymark

[JeremyS]

2 hours ago, Highburymark said:

Precisely why I said I ain’t no Takahashi eyepiece fanboy.  
The differences between most modern eyepieces are so small that they come down to personal preferences. So when something really stands out, it’s worth highlighting - just as the Vixen HRs were  praised when they were still available. Astronomers had been calling out for some new, top tier planetary eyepieces for ages before Vixen and Takahashi duly delivered. If we are now going to lose the TOEs as well as the HRs, it might be the last chance to grab one.

Indeed, recent history shows that when high spec planetary eyepieces are released, the manufacturers don’t let them hang around long. 

[JeremyS]

6 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

I'd like to do the comparison myself rather than read about it. It's difficult to know if people are being objective or not when some brands are surrounded by a type of euphoria.

Not sure what you are suggesting. Vixen vs Takahashi in this case: two very high reputation manufacturers. I’m not sure one elicits more euphoria than the other. But it is true that each makes a very highly regarded range of high magnification eyepieces in the Vixen HRs and the Tak TOEs. 

But you are right that it does come down to one’s personal experience in a head to head comparison if one can be arranged (although a moot point for many as the HR has been unavailable for some time and will never be again, it seems)

[Louis D]

14 hours ago, Sunshine said:

I can say that my Pentax 3.5 is well built, sharp from edge to edge, and has good eye relief. 

I agree. However, Mars at the last opposition just looked like a featureless orange fuzz ball using it (as well as in my 5.2mm Pentax XL).  I swapped it for my Arcturus binoviewer, Meade 140 Barlow nosepiece (to reach focus) operating at 3x, and a pair of vintage B&L 15x (17mm) microscope eyepieces.  Suddenly, the image looked like a sharp photograph with a wealth of detail.  I swapped back, and the image was as before.  Two eyes were definitely better than one that night.  The image of Mars also appeared bigger to my mind's eye with both eyes working together.  I can also see a wealth of detail on the full moon with BVs that are simply swamped in too much glare with one eye.  I think Mars at its brightest must have been similar.

[IB20]

Needed to give the Tak TOE 4mm its first light in the 76DC, so have just had a short session of easy targets.  First up M13, in the 10 & 7 XW just a very faint fuzzy, with the 5XW single stars resolving around the edges with averted vision. More of this with the TOE, - so easy to look through, the eye relief felt huge and eye placement a cinch. The background was jet black despite the sky’s ambient brightness. It would look wonderful in a dark sky.

Next target was Algieba, two perfectly golden orbs. The control in light scatter was the best I’ve ever seen, besting even the XWs, in less than perfect conditions too. 

The final target was Izar. My oh my what a stunning sight. I’ve never seen the secondary so clearly and colourful. It was an icy cold grey-blue companion. I normally see this as a diamond ring, attached to the primary, not tonight, a tank could fit between that gap. Such a clean split, with breathtaking colouration. Had a quick shoot-out with a volcano top Telescope House 4mm Ortho. The TOE was cleaner, better controlled for scatter, sharper, showing slightly better colouration and a million times more comfortable to use.

All in all a fantastic little teaser in what this eyepiece will show me in the months and years to come. 

This is going to end up costing me a fortune! 😅

[MalcolmM]

7 hours ago, IB20 said:

Needed to give the Tak TOE 4mm its first light in the 76DC, so have just had a short session of easy targets.  First up M13, in the 10 & 7 XW just a very faint fuzzy, with the 5XW single stars resolving around the edges with averted vision. More of this with the TOE, - so easy to look through, the eye relief felt huge and eye placement a cinch. The background was jet black despite the sky’s ambient brightness. It would look wonderful in a dark sky.

Next target was Algieba, two perfectly golden orbs. The control in light scatter was the best I’ve ever seen, besting even the XWs, in less than perfect conditions too. 

The final target was Izar. My oh my what a stunning sight. I’ve never seen the secondary so clearly and colourful. It was an icy cold grey-blue companion. I normally see this as a diamond ring, attached to the primary, not tonight, a tank could fit between that gap. Such a clean split, with breathtaking colouration. Had a quick shoot-out with a volcano top Telescope House 4mm Ortho. The TOE was cleaner, better controlled for scatter, sharper, showing slightly better colouration and a million times more comfortable to use.

All in all a fantastic little teaser in what this eyepiece will show me in the months and years to come. 

This is going to end up costing me a fortune! 😅

Really glad you like the TOE. And very struck you find it 'easy' to use. That's generally how I end up describing it.  I've not done much with double stars but from your descriptions I need to try some

Malcolm

[JeremyS]

8 hours ago, IB20 said:

Needed to give the Tak TOE 4mm its first light in the 76DC, so have just had a short session of easy targets.  First up M13, in the 10 & 7 XW just a very faint fuzzy, with the 5XW single stars resolving around the edges with averted vision. More of this with the TOE, - so easy to look through, the eye relief felt huge and eye placement a cinch. The background was jet black despite the sky’s ambient brightness. It would look wonderful in a dark sky.

Next target was Algieba, two perfectly golden orbs. The control in light scatter was the best I’ve ever seen, besting even the XWs, in less than perfect conditions too. 

The final target was Izar. My oh my what a stunning sight. I’ve never seen the secondary so clearly and colourful. It was an icy cold grey-blue companion. I normally see this as a diamond ring, attached to the primary, not tonight, a tank could fit between that gap. Such a clean split, with breathtaking colouration. Had a quick shoot-out with a volcano top Telescope House 4mm Ortho. The TOE was cleaner, better controlled for scatter, sharper, showing slightly better colouration and a million times more comfortable to use.

All in all a fantastic little teaser in what this eyepiece will show me in the months and years to come. 

This is going to end up costing me a fortune! 😅

The TOE 3.3 is in stock at FLO…..

😊

[Stu]

On 23/04/2022 at 14:57, Highburymark said:

Martin’s description “smoother” is spot on.

Can you clarify that a bit more Mark? Smoother in my mind tends to imply less detail, not more? Martin suggested the HR showed every detail suggested it has better resolution?

I haven’t had the chance to do too many comparisons, and don’t have a TOE 3.3 to compare with the 3.4HR so it’s a bit tricky. I have the Pentax 3.5XW, 3.4HR, Nag 3 to 6 and 2 to 4 zooms, so plenty to compare. Will have a go on the moon when it reappears. Need some planets back in our lives too!

[Stu]

2 hours ago, JeremyS said:

The TOE 3.3 is in stock at FLO…..

😊

Oops.

Was….

[IB20]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Oops.

Was….

I can’t afford one for a few months anyway 🤗

[Stu]

49 minutes ago, IB20 said:

I can’t afford one for a few months anyway 🤗

Neither could I….. 😱🤣

I’ll compare it with the 3.4HR and likely make a decision between them.

[JeremyS]

30 minutes ago, Stu said:

Neither could I….. 😱🤣

I’ll compare it with the 3.4HR and likely make a decision between them.

I’m looking forward to this.

Can you compare the HR2.4 and the TOE 2.5 while you are at it Stu? 🤔

[mikeDnight]

On 24/04/2022 at 15:40, JeremyS said:

Not sure what you are suggesting. Vixen vs Takahashi in this case: two very high reputation manufacturers. I’m not sure one elicits more euphoria than the other. But it is true that each makes a very highly regarded range of high magnification eyepieces in the Vixen HRs and the Tak TOEs. 

But you are right that it does come down to one’s personal experience in a head to head comparison if one can be arranged (although a moot point for many as the HR has been unavailable for some time and will never be again, it seems)

Of course the HR's, made of unobtanium, are the best because I have the set.   I've had the 3.5XW and thought it was optically outstanding, but it is a chunk compared to the others. I haven't used the TOE's yet but would only be interested in the 4mm as it would fit nicely into my power range. I have to say however that the HR's are so comfortable to use, even the 1.6mm, I can't ever see me parting with them.

I would say that as far as on axis sharpness goes, the 3.4mm HR has an obvious edge over the 3.5mm XW. In fact the HR's remain pin sharp right across the field of view, even at 1000X.

Edited April 30, 2022 by mikeDnight

[Stu]

19 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

I’m looking forward to this.

Can you compare the HR2.4 and the TOE 2.5 while you are at it Stu? 🤔

I’ve only got the 3.4HR Jeremy, got rid of the 2.4 a while back.

[Highburymark]

13 hours ago, IB20 said:

Needed to give the Tak TOE 4mm its first light in the 76DC, so have just had a short session of easy targets.  First up M13, in the 10 & 7 XW just a very faint fuzzy, with the 5XW single stars resolving around the edges with averted vision. More of this with the TOE, - so easy to look through, the eye relief felt huge and eye placement a cinch. The background was jet black despite the sky’s ambient brightness. It would look wonderful in a dark sky.

Next target was Algieba, two perfectly golden orbs. The control in light scatter was the best I’ve ever seen, besting even the XWs, in less than perfect conditions too. 

The final target was Izar. My oh my what a stunning sight. I’ve never seen the secondary so clearly and colourful. It was an icy cold grey-blue companion. I normally see this as a diamond ring, attached to the primary, not tonight, a tank could fit between that gap. Such a clean split, with breathtaking colouration. Had a quick shoot-out with a volcano top Telescope House 4mm Ortho. The TOE was cleaner, better controlled for scatter, sharper, showing slightly better colouration and a million times more comfortable to use.

All in all a fantastic little teaser in what this eyepiece will show me in the months and years to come. 

This is going to end up costing me a fortune! 😅

Nice report! Glad you’re enjoying the new eyepiece. 

 

3 hours ago, Stu said:

Can you clarify that a bit more Mark? Smoother in my mind tends to imply less detail, not more? Martin suggested the HR showed every detail suggested it has better resolution?

I haven’t had the chance to do too many comparisons, and don’t have a TOE 3.3 to compare with the 3.4HR so it’s a bit tricky. I have the Pentax 3.5XW, 3.4HR, Nag 3 to 6 and 2 to 4 zooms, so plenty to compare. Will have a go on the moon when it reappears. Need some planets back in our lives too!

I meant it in two ways Stu. First, the physical experience (compared to a classical planetary eyepiece like an orthoscopic) is obviously so much more comfortable. As long as you don’t wear glasses, they are perfectly designed for long sessions on the Moon, planets or double stars. And for some reason I don’t seem to get the same problems with floaters that I’ve had with other EPs.
But I also have images of Jupiter from last year with the TOEs (225x, 272x and 360x) clear in my memory. Going from Delite 7, Ortho 6, XW5, to the TOEs, I saw something I’d never seen before - features actually looked more resolved in the cloud belts of the planet as I pumped up the magnification. The intricate detail was presented smoothly and sharply right up to silly powers. I’ve observed Jupiter and Saturn many hundreds of times over the years and never seen features stand out in such definition. And no strain at the eyepiece - hence a smoother experience

[Stu]

A bit silly some of the pricing for Vixen HRs now!

[JeremyS]

Just now, Stu said:

A bit silly some of the pricing for Vixen HRs now!

Crikey!!!
I have all 4 Vixen HRs, but not letting them go 

[Deadlake]

On 30/04/2022 at 23:05, JeremyS said:

Crikey!!!
I have all 4 Vixen HRs, but not letting them go 

Someone wanted one on UK Astro buy/sell, offering £300. 

I will keep for now…

[IB20]

Was using the 4mm TOE and 5mm XW last night on Zeta Herc and other doubles. Got some views of the companion in Zeta Herc with both but by far the best was a barlowed 5XW. The seeing wasn’t upto it for barlowing the TOE but I found viewing through the barlowed TOE wasn’t as easy as without, where the XW it was a doddle. I think I prefer the colouration of the XW too which seem more vivid, the TOE is more clinical and “icier” but I will say it controls light scatter a bit better. 

I absolutely love the XWs, I think next purchase is the 3.5 rather than the 3.3 TOE but I really want to get them on the Jupiter and Saturn which may give a different result!

[MalcolmM]

12 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Was using the 4mm TOE and 5mm XW last night on Zeta Herc and other doubles. Got some views of the companion in Zeta Herc with both but by far the best was a barlowed 5XW. The seeing wasn’t upto it for barlowing the TOE but I found viewing through the barlowed TOE wasn’t as easy as without, where the XW it was a doddle. I think I prefer the colouration of the XW too which seem more vivid, the TOE is more clinical and “icier” but I will say it controls light scatter a bit better. 

I absolutely love the XWs, I think next purchase is the 3.5 rather than the 3.3 TOE but I really want to get them on the Jupiter and Saturn which may give a different result!

I'm really hoping you prefer the TOEs, I simply can't go on a Pentax spending spree

Malcolm