New (Ageing) Astronomer - Advice Needed

[Paul_Sussex]

Won't be pulling the trigger until August, so plenty of time to change my mind so many times.

Meantime, according to the BAA - "A classic beginners’ telescope is the 150mm f/8 reflector. You can get the Sky-Watcher Explorer-150PL tube [...] and put it on a better mounting than it’s normally sold with. Again, I recommend that you use the EQ-5, then you’re spending [less] in total before adding any motors. This is a much better-value package in terms of what it will show you than the 100ED refractor, but rather less portable. It is as good for planets as the 100ED, and better for deep-sky objects. This is my top recommendation for most beginners: as the late Sir Patrick Moore might have said, it’s a telescope with which you can go a very long way."

[malc-c]

Bottom line is that you can go round and round comparing scopes and trying to come up with something that might get close to that all rounder you seek.  The task was a lot easier a decade or so ago as there tended to be just one or two scopes in any given class, or price bracket.  These days there are so many paths to go down at any stage, often with lots of choices in any given price range.

Problem is none of us can say what's right for you.  We can all suggest makes and models of scopes that fit in to your budget, but we can't say if you will be pleased with what you get out of it.  When I got my scope I had a budget of £1000.  Originally I was looking at the Celstron C6 on an GQ5 mount.  It looked the part, and on paper would give me decent images of the planets, and brighter DSOs.  I made arrangements to visit a showroom and had the C6 demonstrated.  The sound the celestron made when slewing was horrendous, and I could see why it had the nick name of coffee grinder !   Behind that was a 200P on a EQ5 goto mount, and whilst impressive thought it was a little too large for my needs.  However after a lot of thought I placed my order with RVO as the original local(ish) retailer had none in stock and I was impatient.  

For me it was a great investment, even though I later got a second hand HEQ5, st80, and a guide camera when I ventured into imaging and sold the EQ5 with a 127 MAK to recover some of the cost.  As I mentioned, you can add barlows to increase the focal length and get reasonable planetary images, well ones I'm happy with and that's what matters to me.  The 150 is a decent scope.  The only issue with the PL version is people say it really needs a higher class mount than the EQ5  as it does move in a breeze.  

If you can, try and find a stockist in reasonable travelling distance and go see some scopes in action.   Talk to the sales guys about what you want to use it for, what you are hoping to get out of the scope, and what future plans may be so that by increasing your budget slightly now may save you loosing some money later on.

 

[alacant]

On 29/03/2022 at 09:53, Paul_Sussex said:

have I gone completely bananas

To decide upon the answer to this question may cost you the price of a round of drinks [1]. If you be so prepared, read on cautiously...

Go along to an astro club meeting. Between them, the members will have all the combinations you are thinking about, including those which have been suggested. You can see and try stuff first hand. Read all you like, but in the end, there really is no substitute for hands on.

Cheers and HTH

[1] Just be careful not to become interested with too many of them;)

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by alacant

[Cosmic Geoff]

17 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

Won't be pulling the trigger until August, so plenty of time to change my mind so many times.

Meantime, according to the BAA - "A classic beginners’ telescope is the 150mm f/8 reflector. You can get the Sky-Watcher Explorer-150PL tube [...] and put it on a better mounting than it’s normally sold with. Again, I recommend that you use the EQ-5, then you’re spending [less] in total before adding any motors. This is a much better-value package in terms of what it will show you than the 100ED refractor, but rather less portable. It is as good for planets as the 100ED, and better for deep-sky objects. This is my top recommendation for most beginners: as the late Sir Patrick Moore might have said, it’s a telescope with which you can go a very long way."

Why wait till August? I can't help thinking that your time and energy over the next few months would be better spent in looking through some small telescope rather than peering at screens agonising over what to buy.  The perfect all-rounder telescope does not exist.

[doublevodka]

21 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

I'm now wondering if I had "target fixation" on the SkyMax? I know there's no one size fits all for telescopes, but I do want something that has a fairly wide application and that I won't outgrow, or at least not too quickly.

Going solely on new costs, a SkyMax 127 on either an AZ5 or EQ3-2 mount and an upgraded tripod would be about £620-630. But I could get a reflector OTA - 130P-DS, 150P or 150PL - and an EQ5 mount for £535-545. Any of which would be okay-ish for planetary observation and better for DSO's. And with better potential in the future?

Oh dear...round and round we go...🤔

I feel your pain I really do, I've a fairly limited budget and have been looking at my next "upgrade" and been going round and round in circles for months

Definitely worth getting some hands on experience if possible and your not in a rush, and really worth checking out the second hand market to make the pennies go further, there are still bargains around if you are patient and willing to travel

[Paul_Sussex]

I am waiting until August because I don't have cash to spare - that is when I retire and have a modest lump sum to "invest" in a telescope, among other things. In the meantime, I have joined a local club and will aim to try out as many different combinations as possible.

And speaking of limited budgets, has anyone come across Dorr Danubia telescopes? Saw this - Dorr Danubia Sirius 150 Newtonian Reflector Telescope - Best Price at Bristol Cameras - but £280 sounds too good to be true? (And probably is?)

[LaurenceT]

4 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

I am waiting until August because I don't have cash to spare - that is when I retire and have a modest lump sum to "invest" in a telescope, among other things. In the meantime, I have joined a local club and will aim to try out as many different combinations as possible.

And speaking of limited budgets, has anyone come across Dorr Danubia telescopes? Saw this - Dorr Danubia Sirius 150 Newtonian Reflector Telescope - Best Price at Bristol Cameras - but £280 sounds too good to be true? (And probably is?)

One thing that I've seen mentioned on here is to stick to the astronomy specialist dealers to buy telescopes etc. and avoid those sold by the likes of Amazon, Ebay Argos etc. or even photographic dealers where the scope you link to is for sale.

[Paul_Sussex]

Definitely...that's why I was a bit dubious about it.

[Cosmic Geoff]

29 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

I am waiting until August because I don't have cash to spare - that is when I retire and have a modest lump sum to "invest" in a telescope, among other things. In the meantime, I have joined a local club and will aim to try out as many different combinations as possible.

And speaking of limited budgets, has anyone come across Dorr Danubia telescopes? Saw this - Dorr Danubia Sirius 150 Newtonian Reflector Telescope - Best Price at Bristol Cameras - but £280 sounds too good to be true? (And probably is?)

It seems curiously cheap considering that an EQ3-2 mount costs £209 and a 150mm Newtonian around £200 elsewhere.  It's not a major brand AFAIK and though it might turn out to be some sort of clearance item it could turn out to be a risky buy for a beginner.

Paul, I assume that you are not prepared to buy some little starter scope with your credit card and repay with your lump sum later?

[Toltec]

Hi Paul

I started up again late last year and bought a used Skymax 127 on an Allview GOTO alt/az mount for £280, I based my decision partly on this being a modest sum to see if I wanted to get back into astronomy and if it was practical in my location. I'm in a Bortle 7 area and I would say the GOTO really helps as you/it can find objects that you would not locate easily if at all visually if your sky isn't great. I then bought some more eypieces, a 102mm F7 refractor, then an AZ-EQ5 mount and some more eyepieces.

I'm just in Orpington if you ever feel like coming over to try out my setup and my local society has observation evenings every third Thurday in the month at Otford which are open to non-members.

Liked a few of your posts to help with the count to get you to the selling forum, still working on that myself.

 

[Paul_Sussex]

That's one of the set-ups I've been looking at. And had the offer of a very nice NexStar 4SE from someone in the local club, but sadly no spare cash at the moment. Skies are (slightly) better where I am - supposedly Bortle 4 - and the South Downs are 20 minutes or so away. I'm hoping to get by manually to start with - have my copy of Turn Left At Orion ordered! 🙂

[Paul_Sussex]

5 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

It seems curiously cheap considering that an EQ3-2 mount costs £209 and a 150mm Newtonian around £200 elsewhere.  It's not a major brand AFAIK and though it might turn out to be some sort of clearance item it could turn out to be a risky buy for a beginner.

Paul, I assume that you are not prepared to buy some little starter scope with your credit card and repay with your lump sum later?

Yes, seemed suspiciously cheap to me. I wondered if anyone had come across them before.

I had originally planned to get some sort of starter telescope, but was put off the idea. But have plenty of time to look at options and hopefully get a look at some different ones in use before I take the plunge.

[Zermelo]

6 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

And speaking of limited budgets, has anyone come across Dorr Danubia telescopes? Saw this - Dorr Danubia Sirius 150 Newtonian Reflector Telescope - Best Price at Bristol Cameras - but £280 sounds too good to be true? (And probably is?)

I've not heard of this one before, but just reading the blurb on that site:

"The Sirius 150 is an ideal telescope for star gazing and planet watching due to its high focal ratio of 1:5"

Sometimes these descriptions can be written by someone with no understanding, even for some decent kit, but that would give me cause to think carefully.

 

 

[Paul_Sussex]

Spiralling in like a vulture, I'm almost decided now on a mid-size reflector. Bear in mind this will be primarily for visual observation. FLO currently list the explorer 150P and 130PDS for about the same price The 130 has only 75% f the area, but comes with a 1.25/2" dual speed focuser. How does that balance against the loss in aperture? Many people seem happy with, for example, the Onesky/AWB 5" tube.

(As these are both showing in stock with FLO, I'm tempted to grab one or the other now then sit there stroking it until I can pick up a mount to suit 🥴 )

[Shimrod]

21 hours ago, LaurenceT said:

One thing that I've seen mentioned on here is to stick to the astronomy specialist dealers to buy telescopes etc. and avoid those sold by the likes of Amazon, Ebay Argos etc. or even photographic dealers where the scope you link to is for sale.

Of course if you do that, you would be excluding the likes of Svbony equipment which have been generally well received and we'll priced. They are only available through the likes of eBay and Amazon - I don't think any of the UK astro shops sell them.

It can be difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff though.

[doublevodka]

15 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

That's one of the set-ups I've been looking at. And had the offer of a very nice NexStar 4SE from someone in the local club, but sadly no spare cash at the moment. Skies are (slightly) better where I am - supposedly Bortle 4 - and the South Downs are 20 minutes or so away. I'm hoping to get by manually to start with - have my copy of Turn Left At Orion ordered! 🙂

I recently sold my 4SE, and whilst I had fun with it it certainly had its quirks. The nexstar system is great once you get the hang of it, but aperture wise it's a bit small, the flip mirror mechanism is a compromise, the electricals can be a bit hit and miss (stripped that mount and soldered more than once) and it needs a dew shield or heater.

 

All that said, it really was what got me back into the hobby, and the ability to lift the whole thing out of the shed and be observing in less than 5 mins is definitely missed

3 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

Spiralling in like a vulture, I'm almost decided now on a mid-size reflector. Bear in mind this will be primarily for visual observation. FLO currently list the explorer 150P and 130PDS for about the same price The 130 has only 75% f the area, but comes with a 1.25/2" dual speed focuser. How does that balance against the loss in aperture? Many people seem happy with, for example, the Onesky/AWB 5" tube.

(As these are both showing in stock with FLO, I'm tempted to grab one or the other now then sit there stroking it until I can pick up a mount to suit 🥴 )

The 130 PDS is well loved in these parts, defo have a look at some of the threads on the forum about it, people are achieving a lot with that little scope. I've got a newtonian with a single speed focuser and spend a lot of time wishing it was a dual speed. Fine focus at higher magnification with single speed is, lets just say a challenge sometimes!

[Paul_Sussex]

11 minutes ago, doublevodka said:

The 130 PDS is well loved in these parts, defo have a look at some of the threads on the forum about it, people are achieving a lot with that little scope. I've got a newtonian with a single speed focuser and spend a lot of time wishing it was a dual speed. Fine focus at higher magnification with single speed is, lets just say a challenge sometimes!

Very popular, but most of the threads seem to concentrate on imaging. For visual, would the 150P be a better start? I could always upgrade to a Crayford dual speed at a later date if it was an issue.

[doublevodka]

8 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

Very popular, but most of the threads seem to concentrate on imaging. For visual, would the 150P be a better start? I could always upgrade to a Crayford dual speed at a later date if it was an issue.

For visual, bigger the better is the general rule. Although for my 2p worth the later upgrade of focuser is a bit of a false economy, cheaper to spend the extra £50 upfront than buy a dual speed later at a much higher cost.

Lots of reflectors on the market now for example here https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?typechoice[]=Telescope-Reflector&titlechoice[]=For+Sale&titlechoice[]=For+Sale+-+Dealer+Ad&titlechoice[]=For+Sale+-+Kit+Tester&minprice=&maxprice=

Or (another alternative sorry!) there is this very well equipped new dob here https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f6-dobsonian.html dual speed, raci finder, mirror fan the works - again quite a few posts about this one, worth adding it to the mix

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

13 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

Very popular, but most of the threads seem to concentrate on imaging. For visual, would the 150P be a better start? I could always upgrade to a Crayford dual speed at a later date if it was an issue.

The 130PDS is intended for imaging, though it by all accounts will also work well for visual.  If you buy the cheaper version of the 130 intended for visual use, it has a different focuser and will not come to focus with some cameras.  It depends on what you want...

I formerly had a Newtonian with a single-speed focuser. It was  a bit tricky to focus, but I managed to find a helical focuser for around £20 that would fit.  A dual-speed focuser conversion would have cost far more.

[cajen2]

47 minutes ago, doublevodka said:

 

Or (another alternative sorry!) there is this very well equipped new dob here https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f6-dobsonian.html dual speed, raci finder, mirror fan the works - again quite a few posts about this one, worth adding it to the mix

 

I've already suggested this to the OP but he doesn't seem too struck on the idea of a dob. I have this one and it's a great scope: I'm struggling to find anything negative to say about it.

[Paul_Sussex]

I was originally (before starting this thread) thinking about a Dobsonian - best bang for your money - but my garden isn't best placed for using one. But I am pretty much decided on a 5"-6" reflector. I've been concentrating on Skywatchers, just because there seems to be more discussion about them, but are there any other comparable makes I should be looking at - Celestron, Bresser, etc. How do they compare?

[cajen2]

There's this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ts-telescopes/ts-photon-6-f5-advanced-newtonian-telescope-with-metal-tube.html

It's said that optically, the SW, Bresser and TS are very similar. You'd have to budget for quite a substantial mount and tripod, though.

Easier and cheaper to get a decent dob and mount it on a table/box! 😛

[Cosmic Geoff]

12 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

I was originally (before starting this thread) thinking about a Dobsonian - best bang for your money - but my garden isn't best placed for using one. But I am pretty much decided on a 5"-6" reflector. I've been concentrating on Skywatchers, just because there seems to be more discussion about them, but are there any other comparable makes I should be looking at - Celestron, Bresser, etc. How do they compare?

Celestron don''t offer many Newtonians nowadays. They do offer a 130mm Astro-fi Newtonian for an affordable £399. There is also FLO's own Stellalyra brand which seems well received.

I feel though that if you are buying to get a first scope rather than for some specific purpose it doesn't matter hugely which of these leading brands you go for.  Some of the parts may come from the same Chinese factories.

[doublevodka]

2 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

I was originally (before starting this thread) thinking about a Dobsonian - best bang for your money - but my garden isn't best placed for using one. But I am pretty much decided on a 5"-6" reflector. I've been concentrating on Skywatchers, just because there seems to be more discussion about them, but are there any other comparable makes I should be looking at - Celestron, Bresser, etc. How do they compare?

 

1 hour ago, cajen2 said:

There's this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ts-telescopes/ts-photon-6-f5-advanced-newtonian-telescope-with-metal-tube.html

It's said that optically, the SW, Bresser and TS are very similar. You'd have to budget for quite a substantial mount and tripod, though.

Easier and cheaper to get a decent dob and mount it on a table/box! 😛

Maybe don't rule out a dob just yet then, you can raise them off the ground...

https://www.google.com/search?q=dobsonian+riser&rlz=1C1DIMC_enGB871GB871&sxsrf=APq-WBtkejYcOW1v7KohKAaXnu-84BkH2Q:1649422002940&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0m8fkv4T3AhWJZMAKHfBEAd4Q_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=1920&bih=947&dpr=1

 

Or get a really really big one, no clearance issues then  

[Louis D]

The 130PDS would probably be excellent for wide field viewing, but the 5" aperture would be a bit limiting on DSOs.

At f/5, collimation will be more critical.

The secondary is oversized for visual use to avoid vignetting while imaging.  As such, it will decrease planetary contrast somewhat.

If you go the EQ mount route, don't forget how top heavy they get with an OTA and counterweights attached.  It makes moving the fully assembled system about the yard to avoid trees, bushes, and houses really difficult compared to a similar weight Dob.  You just pick up the bottom heavy Dob and hug it close to your body while penguin walking it about.  I once looked at buying a used 127 Mak on a smallish EQ mount and couldn't believe how heavy it was fully mounted.  I went the alt-az mount route instead to avoid counterweights.