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Widefield Session


PeterC65

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The sky seemed bright tonight despite the Moon being below the horizon so the seeing wasn’t great. I decided to take in some wider field targets with the refractor and aligned the mount with Procyon and Regulus. It stayed pinpoint accurate throughout.

SAO 132346 Alnilam / SAO132220 Mintaka – The S-shaped line of stars between Alnilam and Mintaka that @Stu has mentioned stood out and was well framed with the ES 24mm. This is a nice target for the refractor.

M44 – The ES 24mm showed the star cluster in context so that I could make out its edge. The cluster doesn’t appear very dense, with a relatively small number of relatively bright stars.

M35 – The ES 24mm showed the main star cluster and the surrounding smaller clusters. The ES 14mm showed the main star cluster in context so that I could make out its edge. The cluster appears very dense, with lots of relatively faint stars. The ES 6.7mm showed the main star cluster in more detail, allowing me to pick out individual stars. The BHZ worked well on this target allowing me to zoom between a contextual view and a detailed view. The BCO 10mm also gave a good view, comparable with the ES 6.7mm.

SAO 082291 Coma Star Cluster – This is the central star of the Coma Star Cluster which consists of widely spaced fairly bright white stars across an area of sky that doesn’t quite fit into the field of view of the ES 24mm so I couldn’t get a sense of context. The stars are all similar so not the most impressive target.

M81 / M82 – Both galaxies were framed nicely with the ES 14mm and I could just about make out some shape at this magnification (x31). One of my favourite targets for the refractor.

M84 / NGC 4435 / NGC 4477 Markrion’s Chain – With the ES 24mm I could see a faint set of dots but they didn’t seem to form the shape of the Chain and were probably stars rather that the galaxies of the Chain.

M87 / M60 / M49 Virgo Cluster of Galaxies – The Virgo Cluster, bounded by M87, M60 and M49, sits right next to Markion’s Chain and so was an obvious next target. The cluster covers way more sky than will fit into the field of view of the ES 24mm. I could see lots of faint dots but again these were probably stars rather than galaxies. Since the mount was well aligned I concentrated on M49 which is one of the brightest galaxies and found it, just, with the ES 14mm. With averted vision I could just make out a blob moving as the scope slewed. Given how faint this galaxy was, that seemed to confirm that the dots I was seeing were most probably stars.

M65 / M66 / NGC 3628 Leo Triplet – Feeling disappointed about the Virgo Cluster I decided to try again for the Leo Triplet as last time I wasn’t sure I’d found it. I used the ES 24mm to find the group, first finding M66 which is the brightest and could be seen fairly clearly. The adjacent bright stars, visible within the field of view of the ES 24mm, were useful for determining the orientation and then finding M65 and NGC 3628. Once found I switched to the ES 14mm which gave a better view of the group. Averted vision and slewing of the scope back and forth was needed to properly make out all three objects. This is actually a satisfying target to find with the refractor.

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Good you moved it here. As I said earlier, you will know you found Markarian's chain with all the little fuzzies, no sharp points of light, 'everywhere'; it will look great in your ES24.

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Nice report @PeterC65 👍. You did well to get NGC3628, it can be a tricky one if skies aren’t so transparent. Large Open Clusters in a refractor are a lovely sight, especially if you can frame them properly and have clear sky surrounding them. Not so easy in a longer focal length scope such as a Mak but a shirt/medium focal length frac does a great job on these.

Keep posting those reports 👍

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59 minutes ago, Kon said:

Good you moved it here. As I said earlier, you will know you found Markarian's chain with all the little fuzzies, no sharp points of light, 'everywhere'; it will look great in your ES24.

I could see lots of faint dots but no sign of fuzzies and the dots didn't form the shape of the Chain. When I found M49 it was much fainter than the dots I was seeing so I assume they were stars. On Stellarium it looks like this area of sky is populated by stars as well, so how will I know that I'm looking at galaxies rather than the stars? By their fuzziness I suppose, which I just didn't see last night.

I will try again when Markarian's Chain, and the Virgo Cluster, is higher in the sky and when the seeing is better. My first attempt at the Leo Triplet was also frustrating (when it was lower in the sky) but last night I'm confident I managed to find it.

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13 minutes ago, Stu said:

Large Open Clusters in a refractor are a lovely sight, especially if you can frame them properly and have clear sky surrounding them. Not so easy in a longer focal length scope such as a Mak but a shirt/medium focal length frac does a great job on these.

I think open clusters sometimes benefit from lower magnification so that you can see some context and see that they are a cluster and not just a bunch of stars right across the field of view. I don't even bother to look at M45 with the MAK as it looks so much better with the widefield of the refractor. I was expecting to find the same with M31 but despite its size I can only ever see the relatively small bright centre.

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32 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I was expecting to find the same with M31 but despite its size I can only ever see the relatively small bright centre.

Totally agree about open clusters.

Regarding M31, if you get this under a nice dark sky, with a widefield scope (3 or 4 degrees field of view) and good dark adaptation then you really can start to see the full extent of it. The outer parts are very low surface brightness but you can definitely pick them up, and the whole thing looks huge! My Genesis is favourite for this as I can get a 5 degree field with a 31mm Nagler, and 4” aperture so it works well.

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1 hour ago, PeterC65 said:

I could see lots of faint dots but no sign of fuzzies and the dots didn't form the shape of the Chain. When I found M49 it was much fainter than the dots I was seeing so I assume they were stars. On Stellarium it looks like this area of sky is populated by stars as well, so how will I know that I'm looking at galaxies rather than the stars? By their fuzziness I suppose, which I just didn't see last night.

I will try again when Markarian's Chain, and the Virgo Cluster, is higher in the sky and when the seeing is better. My first attempt at the Leo Triplet was also frustrating (when it was lower in the sky) but last night I'm confident I managed to find it.

They will look similar to the Leo Triplet , some similar size some smaller. Seeing has to be pretty good as for the Leo triplet.

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5 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

I think open clusters sometimes benefit from lower magnification so that you can see some context and see that they are a cluster and not just a bunch of stars right across the field of view. I don't even bother to look at M45 with the MAK as it looks so much better with the widefield of the refractor. I was expecting to find the same with M31 but despite its size I can only ever see the relatively small bright centre.

The best view I’ve got of M31 was with 8x binoculars while on holiday in Southern Crete. The area is Bortle 2. It covered just over half the FOV and I could just make out M32 as well. It was quite low in the sky too.

Here, all I can see (so far) is the bright core if I’m lucky. 

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On 23/03/2022 at 17:23, PeterStudz said:

The best view I’ve got of M31 was with 8x binoculars while on holiday in Southern Crete. The area is Bortle 2. It covered just over half the FOV and I could just make out M32 as well. It was quite low in the sky too.

Here, all I can see (so far) is the bright core if I’m lucky. 

On one occasion, with the MAK, I have been able to see M32 and M110, but I'm still craving to see some detail in M32 rather than just an elliptical blob.

I'm in a Bortle 4 area but sometimes there seems to be more light pollution than that would suggest, especially earlier in the evening when people still have lights on and there are cars about. I should try to get up in the middle of the night but I expect the wife would have something to say about that!

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@PeterC65 I’m in Bortle 7, although until recently ClearOutside had it as Bortle 8. I’d say Bortle 7 is more accurate but it looks the same to me. Bortle 4 is a dark sky for me! I’ve got a few likely spots to check out that are about a 30 mins drive from me that are Bortle 4. Still, there something special about observing from your own garden. 

Here, I find that light pollution is at its lowest from about 1:30am. In the past I’ve set my gear up outside and slept on the sofa downstairs, or, when it’s warmer, slept on an air bed outside without a tent. Then got up in the early hours. Of course sleeping outside can only really be done in the warmer months when there’s not so much to see. But I’ve done this with my daughter who loves camping even if it’s just the garden. We’ve then looked for shooting stars and used the binoculars before sleep. It also means that when she does get up to look in the telescope her eyes are dark adapted. Trying to get a 10 yr old to sit outside and get use to the dark isn’t easy. We also camped in the garden last summer when Jupiter and Saturn were in the sky at around 2am onwards - great fun - she does prefer the planets. 
 

One other thing I’ve noticed. I’m sure that there was less light pollution during the lockdowns. Even in Bortle 7 it can be surprising. I know that certain areas of my sky are darker than others and if an object is high in the sky the views are always far better. 

Edited by PeterStudz
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