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Disaster! I don't know how to control my telescope at all! Ekos/INDI/Kstars/Astroberry/WiFi woes


pipnina

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I don't know how many people use Ekos/INDI/Kstars as a software setup but I tried to use it for my now computerised imaging setup tonight for the first time. It has been a disaster.

If i turn all my kit on, and get into the astroberry VNC interface to turn on the INDI server, all is ok so far. I can connect to the INDI server using Kstars. Using the Ekos manager in Kstars I can get the polar alignment feature to work just fine (1m 30sec and 0m 58sec error on alt/az), but the plate solving to center on a target *would not work*

First I actually had to install the astrometry data packs from a download in the Ekos manager, then, while it would detect the telescope's current position correctly, if I slew to a target and asked it to solve and slew, it MIGHT do one iteration of solving to that target (i.e. alt f5, select polaris or select polaris, hit options, and ask to slew) but even if it does, it then changes the object name from "polaris" to "star" and it just stops narrowing down to the correct location.

(example of the area I'm looking at below, but not actual screen cap of what happened tonight)

Screenshot_20220317_021705.png.d56895fa9131c68d6e47489b00c01cd8.png

Also, having sync plate solved the mount to the real position of the telescope, and trying to slew with horizon proection on, even objects at the zenith can cause Kstars or Ekos or whatever it is to think that the mount will collide or point at the ground. I had to turn the safety feature off to get anything done, but that doesn't sound right!

To make matters worse, on my laptop (Ubuntu 18.04) the toupcam INDI driver *will not work*, it just crashes no matter what I do. So I need to run it off of my raspberry pi. Because the raspberry pi's wifi can't reach the house's but my laptop's can, I had to bridge the laptop's wifi to the raspberry pi. Sadly, either this setup isn't agreeable or astroberry OS in general is borked, or my raspberry pi 4 is borked on a hardware level, because periodically Kstars on the RPI will just lock up the whole system and need a reboot. By the end the system didn't even recover from cycling the power.

I'm at my wit's end, what am I doing wrong!?! So many people do this remote astrophotography (or at least lappy controlled astro) with relative ease! Mine refuses to even point at the parts of the sky I ask for...

 

Any ideas or suggestions for how to fix this mess I've made for myself greatly appreciated and desperately needed!

many thanks

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It’s difficult to diagnose software issues, but start by making sure that at least there are no hardware issues:

power source that can supply at least the requirements (3A I believe)

usb cables that work without a glitch

ethernet cable to your router while testing

I’ve had my fair share of problems with kstars, but mostly while the software was still under initial development. Since the releases are divided into stable and nightly builds, it has become much more reliable. And using an ethernet cable has further improved stability.

Edited by wimvb
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I used this set up for a few years, without issue, so I will try an give some help and tips.

Firstly don’t even bother trying to platesolve on Polaris, it just will not work, it never has and always throws errors, it may work 1 time out of 6 if you are lucky.

Secondly use ASTAP as your platesolve, I never used the internal one so can’t comment on that…ASTAP was always flawless for me, and make sure you install the catalogue file too.

Thirdly, and very important, you need a good solid 4 amp power source for the RPI, this will make a huge difference, if not you will get freezes and more importantly wifi and network connection issues, with lack of power the Wi-Fi and network is the first to suffer.

Next you say the toupcam driver will not run off the laptop but will run off the PI, well all the drivers run off the PI so I am not sure what this means, it makes no difference whether you run Kstars off the laptop or the PI, the indi drivers are running from the indi server on the PI all the time…so there is another issue here, do,you have your laptop Ekos setting set to remote and not to local as this will cause the same issue you are getting.

I suggest for your next trip out, you set your scope in the home position, then power on and start Ekos, your scope crosshairs on the sky map, should be on Polaris, or very close to it, then slew and centre on an object in the east or west, once it’s solved, then right click and sync, then do the same on an object in the opposite side of the sky, and do the same, then you should be good to go to any other object and have good goto accuracy.

Always park your mount at the end of a session, in a pre defined position..

hope this all helps, anything else you need to know give me a shout..👍🏼

 

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I notice all the failed plate solves in your image above were of Polaris, so my point there is made, don’t even bother trying to solve on Polaris, when you power up and you mount is pointing at Polaris, as long as the cross hairs on the sky map are also on Polaris, or very close, you can just right click and hit sync, then goto another object and try and solve, you will get better results I assure you.

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3 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Firstly don’t even bother trying to platesolve on Polaris, it just will not work, it never has and always throws errors, it may work 1 time out of 6 if you are lucky.

I think this is key to you issue!

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I know that when I tried plate solving on Polaris and syncing with EQMOD I had no end of problems and think that you would with KStars as well. I ended up starting with Astroberry but could never get the camera connections stable until I installed INDIGO Sky which also allowed me to control it via APT. I have my Raspberry Pi 4 setup on a second rig with an AZGTI and will be trying it all again later this week.

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I would agree with the above comments not to platesolve on Polaris, there is no real need to do so and although it can work it often does either give errors or just struggles so take ages trying to platesolve it.
Some great advice from @Stuart1971.

Also I would be tempted to start off using an ethernet connection if the scope is not too far away from the house, you can get some very long flat cables that can go through very narrow gaps in almost closed windows so n need to leave doors wide open. 
I say this just to eliminate any WIFI issues as they can just add to the frustration, when everything is working then go onto WIFI then and if y=using a RPi I would really recommend using a WIFI dongle, I could never get the RPi internal WIFI to work reliably at all and if it is in a metal case then forget it.

So if all is in place in KStars correctly just select a target on KStars that should be visible, but away from Polaris, and slew to the target then platesolve using ASTAP.

Steve

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9 hours ago, pipnina said:

it just stops narrowing down

Hi

Make sure you have the latest stellarsolver. kstars 1.5.8 **EDIT: kstars 3.5.8 will get you there. Slew to somewhere in e.g. ursa major:

Capture and Solve -> Sync

Now slew back to Polaris and go again. 
With a 203mm f5 under indi-eqmod, the closest we can get to Polaris is around 50 arc seconds. Make sure your accuracy isn't set too low:

ss_1.thumb.png.03c27c0fa8fa0473f2e5bbfd0b20b189.png

Edited by alacant
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4 hours ago, wimvb said:

It’s difficult to diagnose software issues, but start by making sure that at least there are no hardware issues:

power source that can supply at least the requirements (3A I believe)

usb cables that work without a glitch

ethernet cable to your router while testing

I’ve had my fair share of problems with kstars, but mostly while the software was still under initial development. Since the releases are divided into stable and nightly builds, it has become much more reliable. And using an ethernet cable has further improved stability.

28 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Firstly don’t even bother trying to platesolve on Polaris, it just will not work,

Secondly use ASTAP as your platesolve, I never used the internal one so can’t comment on that…ASTAP was always flawless for me, and make sure you install the catalogue file too.

Thirdly, and very important, you need a good solid 4 amp power source for the RPI, this will make a huge difference, if not you will get freezes and more importantly wifi and network connection issues, with lack of power the Wi-Fi and network is the first to suffer.

Next you say the toupcam driver will not run off the laptop but will run off the PI, well all the drivers run off the PI so I am not sure what this means, it makes no difference whether you run Kstars off the laptop or the PI, the indi drivers are running from the indi server on the PI all the time…so there is another issue here, do,you have your laptop Ekos setting set to remote and not to local as this will cause the same issue you are getting.

I suggest for your next trip out, you set your scope in the home position, then power on and start Ekos, your scope crosshairs on the sky map, should be on Polaris, or very close to it, then slew and centre on an object in the east or west, once it’s solved, then right click and sync, then do the same on an object in the opposite side of the sky, and do the same, then you should be good to go to any other object and have good goto accuracy.

Always park your mount at the end of a session, in a pre defined position..

hope this all helps, anything else you need to know give me a shout..👍🏼

 

3 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

I would agree with the above comments not to platesolve on Polaris

Also I would be tempted to start off using an ethernet connection if the scope is not too far away from the house, you can get some very long flat cables that can go through very narrow gaps in almost closed windows so n need to leave doors wide open. 
I say this just to eliminate any WIFI issues as they can just add to the frustration, when everything is working then go onto WIFI then and if y=using a RPi I would really recommend using a WIFI dongle, I could never get the RPi internal WIFI to work reliably at all and if it is in a metal case then forget it.

So if all is in place in KStars correctly just select a target on KStars that should be visible, but away from Polaris, and slew to the target then platesolve using ASTAP.

Steve

 

All very good information! I am going to try my raspberry pi on a fresh install of the software and use my phone's fast charger which I believe supports 5A for the PI, who knows what quality the plug is that came with the pi initially... Also, my PI kit unfortunately came in a metal case, so maybe there are issues there too... That's a hard one to solve quickly sadly.

I did try to plate solve on Procyon and Betelgeuse too, and I had similar issues there. The mount would take its guess at goto-ing to it, and be realtively close (maybe a few deg off) I would click "solve and slew" and it would maybe try to make one correction before it "gave up" (or at least, decided to plate solve where it was already looking...) I'll give the alternative platesolvers a go today!

Now there's also something I did not do... Mount in home position. I believe that is, for the HEQ5, where the telescope is at the top, counterweight underneath, and pointed at DEC 90deg right? So if I allow my mount to park with it in that position (undone clutches while it lets itself think/move?) then lock the clutches and unpark the mount and begin slewing, it should be more reliable?

The last issue is with setting the mount's RA limits properly, but hopefully I can do that in the daytime now.

At least I started having these issues during bright moon!

Many thanks for all of your help, I will try and get these corrections going!

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Been there, done that!🙄  I've had a number of issues with KStars and Ekos, etc.  It's not the simplest or most intuitive software to use and could do with an 'idiot' mode, for people like me.  I've also had problems with RPi throwing wobblies, etc.  First time I tried to plate solve a few nights ago, I couldn't get anything.  Last night, was the first ever time that plate solving actually worked for me!😲  I don't if it was because I increased the exposure time and gain settings, but it did seem to make a difference.  Having a 120mm f8 1000m refractor makes the FOV a bit small, so perhaps there weren't enough starts in the image to be resolved correctly?🤔  I've got it working after a fashion though...

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40 minutes ago, wimvb said:

Aka Faraday cage. Definitely change to a plastic case or use a cable

Good point,

I use a solid metal case, and yes it is an issue for Wi-Fi, but I no longer use the internal Wi-Fi, I use a USB 3.0, 1200mbps version, and it’s flawless…so worth a thought as they are only a tenner…👍🏼

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1 hour ago, Stuart1971 said:

Good point,

I use a solid metal case, and yes it is an issue for Wi-Fi, but I no longer use the internal Wi-Fi, I use a USB 3.0, 1200mbps version, and it’s flawless…so worth a thought as they are only a tenner…👍🏼

If you can link me to the dongle you're using for your PI I'll be very grateful! There are a lot of ifs and buts when it comes to wifi kit on Linux, was it plug and play or did you need to install some drivers yourself?

Thanks again

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2 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Windows updates? Pah!

That’s why I prefer Linux based control systems which I only update during summer recess. But you do need some aptitude for operating systems. (Linux pun intended.)

Edited by wimvb
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35 minutes ago, wimvb said:

aptitude

Nice one:)

I wonder what it is which makes so many struggle with plate solving and computer control software in general? Age? We have a regular visitor who brings along his grandson to hook it all up for him and make the mount move. The boy just gets it.

 

 

 

 

Edited by alacant
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12 minutes ago, alacant said:

Nice one:)

I wonder what it is which makes so many struggle with plate solving and computer control software in general? Age? We have a regular visitor who brings along his grandson to hook it all up for him and make the mount move. The boy just gets it.

I think it might be the density of terminology involved, plus knowledge of the coordinate system, hardware capability, software familiarity etc.

I am no computer novice but sometimes computer things simply don't go to plan haha. I'm sure once I've bashed heads with it for long enough I will end up forming a passing agreement with the system however.

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1 hour ago, pipnina said:

If you can link me to the dongle you're using for your PI I'll be very grateful! There are a lot of ifs and buts when it comes to wifi kit on Linux, was it plug and play or did you need to install some drivers yourself?

Thanks again

THIS is the one I used with my RPi (also with metal case).
It works well with Linux but there is a knack to installing the drivers (which off the top of my head I am struggling to remember) but I think SGL members can get you going with it although I am sure there are others available maybe some work almost out of the box.
image.png.232a684f4832816d4749a324c322884f.png

Steve

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2 hours ago, pipnina said:

If you can link me to the dongle you're using for your PI I'll be very grateful! There are a lot of ifs and buts when it comes to wifi kit on Linux, was it plug and play or did you need to install some drivers yourself?

Thanks again

The one I used was plug and play…link below, it’s gone up a bit in price as I paid £15 about 18 months ago….now it’s £23, there is a “Like new” one available for just over £19 not sure if that just for prime customers or not, look in bottom right of linked page…

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BrosTrend-1200Mbps-Raspbian-raspberry-AC1L/dp/B07FCNP2VL/ref=asc_df_B07FCNP2VL/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310776295886&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11940051960967236863&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046174&hvtargid=pla-551382897533&psc=1

 

Edited by Stuart1971
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1 hour ago, Stuart1971 said:

The one I used was plug and play…link below, it’s gone up a bit in price as I paid £15 about 18 months ago….now it’s £23, there is a “Like new” one available for just over £19 not sure if that just for prime customers or not, look in bottom right of linked page…

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BrosTrend-1200Mbps-Raspbian-raspberry-AC1L/dp/B07FCNP2VL/ref=asc_df_B07FCNP2VL/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310776295886&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11940051960967236863&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046174&hvtargid=pla-551382897533&psc=1

 

Seems ideal! I picked up a plastic case on there too for my RPI4 for only £8 too.

Turns out taking the metal lid off of the case took me from no to very limited connection to a far far better one, but I'm still having networking issues after a while so maybe this dongle will help.

I can use Ekos/INDI remotely after a while but eventually something goes wrong, control ability stops and the ping (with ping command from my laptop) to the RPi goes from 10-20 to several thousand! hard to say if networking or a blocking process but worth a shot with the dongle anyway.

 

Many thanks!

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1 minute ago, pipnina said:

Seems ideal! I picked up a plastic case on there too for my RPI4 for only £8 too.

Turns out taking the metal lid off of the case took me from no to very limited connection to a far far better one, but I'm still having networking issues after a while so maybe this dongle will help.

I can use Ekos/INDI remotely after a while but eventually something goes wrong, control ability stops and the ping (with ping command from my laptop) to the RPi goes from 10-20 to several thousand! hard to say if networking or a blocking process but worth a shot with the dongle anyway.

 

Many thanks!

With the USB dongle, you can use that as the hotspot or you can just connect it to your home network, same choices as the internal  Wi-Fi…but works far far better, I actually use one now on my indoor PC rather than the intel NUC’s built in one…👍🏼

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I got to the point of having all the astap databases downloaded so it could plate solve without requiring an external data connection. As I like to "image in the field" as it were, I found astroberry an annoyance to use with a phone, and don't get me started on the constant issues which crop up (and I'm quite decent at tinkering with computers both hardware and software).

So I bought an Asiair and never looked back, it really is that damn good (user friendly). I understand it's an added cost and you're tied into the zwo ecosystem but if your time is spent imaging rather than troubleshooting the individual would have to weigh up the cost Vs usability.

Regarding the orientation of the scope/point to the ground I've had this crop up (also with the asiair). I found if your home position is not correct to start off with (counterweight pointing to ground, telescope on top of and in line with mount pointing at Polaris) this will usually cause it. When I start my asiair it's usually always wrong so I have to manually release the RA clutch, rotate back to "zero", tell it to slew to home position if it's correct it won't move from the manually set position (or it'll move very little).

I've still got the rpi as it is useful for certain things but as I said it has its issues, my most recent one which has cropped up it causes my 290mm mini to freeze so yet another issue to resolve.

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