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Brand loyalty


Paz

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1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

I think some brands win respect and acquire a following because they are consistently good. Takahashi, Vixen, TMB, and I think there's one called TeleVue, which are well thought of for one reason or another, but not all their products are great, so to blindly follow a brand simply because of its name can be a mistake. And sometimes, old or forgotten brands costing very little can give these more modern upstarts a serious run for the money. 

Mike, didn't you tell me that some of the Tak eyepieces are not very good, I dont recall which ones? 🙂

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£Sterling.🤣🤣  I know it’s not a brand but has a lot to say on what I get. 
No offence intended to premium brands set against more cash effective kit. The 5% you may get from premium is buyers choice. 
Each to your own and then enjoy !!! 

John 

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2 hours ago, JeremyS said:

All mine have their original hand cast and skillfully hand assembled focusers. 😊

Same… although I’ve added MEF-3 fine focusers to the FS60CB and FC100DZ, Feathertouch Pinion to the FC76DCU… they still retain the lovely blue focuser assemblies though… I love the look and they operate smoothly 👍

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1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

I love Tak straight thru finders. None of the RACI stuff 😊

Agreed, they give beautiful views, but I have swapped for RACI, simply because I find the straight through awkward to use… Mewlon 180C is built in and so I do use that one 😀

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Regarding the OPs original question… check out my signature… it’s fair to say that most of my scopes are Takahashi, and yes I would consider a model from that brand before looking elsewhere… however, I’ve had (and still have) scopes from other brands, and they’re great too 👍

For eyepieces, it’s mostly Pentax and TeleVue, but I have plenty of others, also superb. 

Baader are great for accessories etc… consistent quality and pretty have anything you might need 😀

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I probably haven’t had enough scopes to develop a ‘brand loyalty’ (never liked that expression - loyalty is what dogs have - ‘brand preference’ seems more accurate) but I have certainly developed a ‘brand aspiration’ for Takahashi. I do like Baader for accessories though, they produce very well thought out and well made products. 

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4 hours ago, paulastro said:

Mike, didn't you tell me that some of the Tak eyepieces are not very good, I dont recall which ones? 🙂

Yes I did Paul. It was the 30mm LE with its awful eyelens placement and bad edge correction, then the 5mm LE, and one of the Hi LE's that had mega ghosting issues. I don't own any Tak eyepieces any longer. Other top brands don't get away Scott free either, with Televue selling scandelously expensive refractors that can't take magnification, and soften out long before they reach 200X. They are stunning for rich field observing though, but still not worth anywhere near the cost at new prices. And don't get me started on TV's eyepiece undercuts. I think they must have set Jack Nicholson loose in their engineering workshop. The only TV eyepiece I own today is a 35mm Panoptic which I use only with my Genesis SDF. Thankfully I don't need to buy anymore TV eyepieces,  as my Baader Morpheus eyepieces perform amazingly well in the SDF despite it being only F5.4.  Rant over, until next time. 

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11 hours ago, dweller25 said:

Fetch the rope boys, we got ourselves a Tak hater 🤣

:D Hardly. I've done literally thousands of hours of happy imaging with Taks but the fact remains that they struggle for consistency with the FSQ range.

Olly

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I have always oddly enjoyed that my EP case is quite mix and match, and for years the only two in the same range were 6mm and 10mm BCOs. I also had a few Meades but all different ranges (SWA, UWA, HD60). 

However, since I bought the Morpheus 17.5mm I did end up going back and getting the 4.5mm as well, so it seems I have 4 Baader EPs without really thinking about it. 

My most recent EP purchase was a Pentax 10mm which is also fantastic, (replacing a Meade HD60) so the trend didn't really continue. 

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I guess I was being a little disingenuous in my previous post, in that I do have a certain Tak addiction, owning three of the little blighters! I certainly think their fluorite doublets are unbeatable, and am sure their triplets are similar. Olly knows far more about their FSQs than I ever will.

I think Televue’s strength is their eyepieces, and reckon they could step up their game on the scope side. I did love my TV85 though and have an old Genesis for widefield observing.

If I look at the scopes I own, they are Tak, LZOS, Vixen, Orion Optics, Zeiss, Televue, Skywatcher and Celestron.

Eyepiece wise I have Televue, Pentax, Baader and Leica.

Despite my opening comment, I think that says no particular brand loyalty!

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11 hours ago, dweller25 said:

Guilty as charged…..

My FS128 sports a Feathertouch 3035 focuser - in my opinion it is better than the original Tak focuser.

AND I added a RACI focuser to my Mewlon and FC100DZ because the Tak straight throughs hurt my back.

AND I replaced all the refractor clamshells with tube rings - one securing bolt is not enough for me.

Why ? - because the optics are worth it 🙂

I still have have and like the original focuser, but I have added the MEF 3 microfocuser, which is excellent.

I did replace the (optically excellent) original finder with a RACI one for the same reason as David.

I would never swap the original clamshell ring for tube rings..the clamshell IMHO is better functionally, very strong and safe, and looks great 😃.

Dave

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11 hours ago, JeremyS said:

I love Tak straight thru finders. None of the RACI stuff 😊

It is true that the optical quality of Takahashi finders is superb, I have a 6x30 and it blows away my Synta 6x30 RACI, but how do you cope with the neckache? 

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36 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

.the clamshell IMHO is better functionally

I agree, it's much easier to loosen one bolt if needing to rotate and reposition the tube. Something I need to do quite often when using the EQ mount.

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11 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

 All pure and unadulterated Takahashi in the four I've owned. 

I'm not trying to be contradictory Mike, but you did have  trouble with the focuser on your 100DC.  I know you managed to take it apart and fettle it, but only after contacting the supplier to get advice on how to fix it, if I remember correctly.  My memory is that out of the box it was pretty awful.  

Also, if you recall, I bought a new Tak DF,  and out of the box there were deep scratches in the first baffle when you looked into the lens!  Absolutely astonishing, and I wonder to this day how it ever got through quality control.  The supplier couldn't believe it until I sent some photos, but they quickly sent aa refund.

I'm no Tak hater, and believe their fluorite doublets are the best of their type.  I do think though, that we shouldn't look through rose tinted glasses however besotted we are by a particular make.  They can all have a bad day.

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20 minutes ago, Franklin said:

It is true that the optical quality of Takahashi finders is superb, I have a 6x30 and it blows away my Synta 6x30 RACI, but how do you cope with the neckache? 

What neck ache?
 

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3 minutes ago, paulastro said:

I'm not trying to be contradictory Mike, but you did have  trouble with the focuser on your 100DC.  I know you managed to take it apart and fettle it, but only after contacting the supplier to get advice on how to fix it, if I remember correctly.  My memory is that out of the box it was pretty awful.  

Also, if you recall, I bought a new Tak DF,  and out of the box there were deep scratches in the first baffle when you looked into the lens!  Absolutely astonishing, and I wonder to this day how it ever got through quality control.  The supplier couldn't believe it until I sent some photos, but they quickly sent aa refund.

I'm no Tak hater, and believe their fluorite doublets are the best of their type.  I do think though, that we shouldn't look through rose tinted glasses however besotted we are by a particular make.  They can all have a bad day.

I’ve never been a fan of Tak focusers, although I know many are perfectly happy with them. Just added a Feathertouch to the last of mine! I find dual focusing invaluable for high powered viewing, especially solar, so really like these.

Optically though, all the fluorite doublets I’ve owned have been excellent, although I just didn’t get on with my Sky-90 so it’s not unqualified perfection by any means.

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A lot comes down to what you can afford but I endorse this wholeheartedly-

13 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

What matters more is the mentality of the supplier and that's where retailers like FLO stand out. If the customer isn't happy they'll accept that.

Cheers,
Steve

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9 hours ago, RobertI said:

I probably haven’t had enough scopes to develop a ‘brand loyalty’ (never liked that expression - loyalty is what dogs have - ‘brand preference’ seems more accurate) 

I agree with this, though I think for me it probably tends towards 'Brand Obsession' and I am rational enough to realise that this is irrational behavior :)

For me. I simply get huge value out of looking through them, looking at them and owning them. One member here, I can't remember who, pointed me to a video of the scopes being made and whereas I understand it was probably marketing, it just looked like real pride and love goes into their manufacture and for me that comes through in ownership, it's not just a scope :)

Malcolm

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Sorry Chris, this thread seems to have drifted from your original topic..

I do have some brand loyalty but it's not unqualified or blind at all. Overall, I would say my two most trusted brands in the past 20-30 years would be Vixen and Baader..

Vixen, because they have consistently produced and invented excellent, innovative products..SP &GP mounts, LV/LVW/SLV eyepieces and wonderful refractors like SP, FL and ED/SD ranges: many of which brought excellent optical performance within reach of "the masses" for the first time..

Baader, because again they are so innovative, and their development of the T2 accessory system, Maxbright binoviewers, BGO & Morpheus high end eyepieces, for example, have always offered great performance and versatility👍.

I've never not owned something made by Vixen or Baader in all that time.

Dave

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Did anyone actively try to find alternatives to popular brands... "on principal"? 🤣
Baader (Hyperions) are an case in point. Notwithstanding the known limitations
it was a BRAVE person who recommended them on certain forums in early days?
(Actually, one might miss out on genuinely good... Albeit more expensive TVs).

Personally, I'd still hope for measured data re. "optical performance"... Such does
not seem (easily) obtainable re. eyepieces. I am sympathetic to subjectivity, but
I think it can be carried to extremes. I even decided not to participate in *some*
areas of Astronomy, because of endless controversies. "It's a Hobby"? [to me]. 🥳

There are "worse" things than Astronomy though! Each time I buy any MUSIC
hardware, I THEN see only the negative reviews. One reviewer claimed he had
"st*ffed" his (RIP) Grannie (as in taxidermy)! She could now "attended family
family festivities". But, like my purchase, it was not as good as the REAL thing! 🙀
(He later conceded the latter was metaphorical! Strange people? lol)

Edited by Macavity
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19 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

Sorry Chris, this thread seems to have drifted from your original topic..

I do have some brand loyalty but it's not unqualified or blind at all. Overall, I would say my two most trusted brands in the past 20-30 years would be Vixen and Baader..

Vixen, because they have consistently produced and invented excellent, innovative products..SP &GP mounts, LV/LVW/SLV eyepieces and wonderful refractors like SP, FL and ED/SD ranges: many of which brought excellent optical performance within reach of "the masses" for the first time..

Baader, because again they are so innovative, and their development of the T2 accessory system, Maxbright binoviewers, BGO & Morpheus high end eyepieces, for example, have always offered great performance and versatility👍.

I've never not owned something made by Vixen or Baader in all that time.

Dave

I must admit, I have a soft spot for Baader.  The Baader items I have, are well- made and thought out and do what they are supposed to do very well.  Their catalogue is astonishing in its breadth.

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