QHY8L with 130PDS?

[BrendanC]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of taking the step from DSLR to 'proper', cooled astro cam.

I mainly shoot DSOs of all types, not solar system.

I'm shooting in a Bortle 4 sky currently, but may be moving to London (argh) in a year or so.

I'm not ready for the expense and faff of mono, so I want to go OSC with dual-band filter, probably the L-Extreme.

I keep hearing good things about the QHY8L, which would also match my guiding setup if paired with my Sky-Watcher 130PDS on an NEQ6 mount.

So, does anyone think this would be a ridiculous idea, or does anyone think it's a brilliant idea, or does anyone have any comments in between?

Thanks, Brendan

[redfox1971]

All I can say about the QHY8L is mine lasted about a year sent it back to China it was cheaper to send it there than to have it returned,anyway it lasted about 8months went wrong again something to do with the readout chip,so now just gathering dust in cupboard,I did email them other day about how much a new circuit board would be and fit myself,board would cost 110usd then import charges etc on top so how much total would be wouldn't like to say,so that's put me off all qhy stuff now,zwo all the way my asi1600 now 3 years old.

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, BrendanC said:

Hi all,

I'm thinking of taking the step from DSLR to 'proper', cooled astro cam.

I mainly shoot DSOs of all types, not solar system.

I'm shooting in a Bortle 4 sky currently, but may be moving to London (argh) in a year or so.

I'm not ready for the expense and faff of mono, so I want to go OSC with dual-band filter, probably the L-Extreme.

I keep hearing good things about the QHY8L, which would also match my guiding setup if paired with my Sky-Watcher 130PDS on an NEQ6 mount.

So, does anyone think this would be a ridiculous idea, or does anyone think it's a brilliant idea, or does anyone have any comments in between?

Thanks, Brendan

I think there are quite a few options that will give better value for money even used. Unless someone is really giving one away, I. Which case why not. 

 

[BrendanC]

  

2 hours ago, Adam J said:

I think there are quite a few options that will give better value for money even used. Unless someone is really giving one away, I. Which case why not. 

 

 

Such as...? I'm all ears!

Edited February 6, 2022 by BrendanC

[rnobleeddy]

1 hour ago, redfox1971 said:

All I can say about the QHY8L is mine lasted about a year sent it back to China it was cheaper to send it there than to have it returned,anyway it lasted about 8months went wrong again something to do with the readout chip,so now just gathering dust in cupboard,I did email them other day about how much a new circuit board would be and fit myself,board would cost 110usd then import charges etc on top so how much total would be wouldn't like to say,so that's put me off all qhy stuff now,zwo all the way my asi1600 now 3 years old.

I heard a few similar stories about QHY's early offerings, but I've not had any issues with their newer gear at all.

[Adam J]

2 hours ago, BrendanC said:

  

 

Such as...? I'm all ears!

Depends on your budget. But the ASI294mc pro or the ASI533mc pro spring to mind. Although they will both sell fast when they come up used.

Adam

[BrendanC]

Let's assume my budget reaches to the QHY device!

What advantages would you say those cameras have over it, besides being cheaper?

I'm not that keen on the 533's square sensor, and both of those cameras push my guiding setup to the limits. The QHY unit has lovely big pixels that would work very nicely with it.

I just wondered whether anyone actually had this combination of devices. I know there are lots of choices out there.

Edited February 7, 2022 by BrendanC

[Adam J]

34 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

Let's assume my budget reaches to the QHY device!

What advantages would you say those cameras have over it, besides being cheaper?

I'm not that keen on the 533's square sensor, and both of those cameras push my guiding setup to the limits. The QHY unit has lovely big pixels that would work very nicely with it.

I just wondered whether anyone actually had this combination of devices. I know there are lots of choices out there.

I would have thought that an NEQ6 would easily manage a 130PDS and get sub arcsecond guiding? If not then maybe some turning of balance or a belt drive upgrade? I used to get 0.7 RMS total with my 130PDS on a HEQ5pro. 

Are you actually thinking of a new QHY8L? I really do think that would be a very poor choice in 2022.  

In terms of what makes them better, they are just lots more sensitive (higher QE and lower read noise) and suited to shorter exposures, so that might even help with poor guiding? 

If you pay a little more there is the QHY168c that still has reasonably small pixels and all the advantages of CMOS. 

But looking through astrobin the ASI294mc pro is just taking better images on average than the QHY8L

Adam 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Adam J

[BrendanC]

Interesting, never thought about going through Astrobin. Nice idea.

I can get good guiding with my NEQ6 and 130PDS, but I'm talking about the ratio of  the resolution in arc seconds per pixel between my guiding setup - a QHY QHY5L-II with AngelEyes 50mm scope - and my imaging setup. The theory is you need to have a ratio below 5:1 maximum, otherwise you're pushing it, as encapsulated here: https://astronomy.tools/calculators/guidescope_suitability I'm thinking of how the camera will fit in with the entire imaging and guiding train.

So, I've done some calculations and it seems the 533 would actually be OK but as I say, I'm kind of put off by that strange square sensor.

The 294 is promising, but the QHY has a much larger sensor, which I also find attractive. 

I'll trawl through Astrobin and take a look.

Edited February 7, 2022 by BrendanC

[Adam J]

5 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

Interesting, never thought about going through Astrobin. Nice idea.

I can get good guiding with my NEQ6 and 130PDS, but I'm talking about the ratio of  the resolution in arc seconds per pixel between my guiding setup - a QHY QHY5L-II with AngelEyes 50mm scope - and my imaging setup. The theory is you need to have a ratio below 5:1 maximum, otherwise you're pushing it, as encapsulated here: https://astronomy.tools/calculators/guidescope_suitability I'm thinking of how the camera will fit in with the entire imaging and guiding train.

So, I've done some calculations and it seems the 533 would actually be OK but as I say, I'm kind of put off by that strange square sensor.

The 294 is promising, but the QHY has a much larger sensor, which I also find attractive. 

I'll trawl through Astrobin and take a look.

I used a 130PDS with a ASI1600mm pro and only a 50mm finder guider. Took this with it. Guiding was no problem, the pixel size is the same as the 533. 2x2 panels. 

Adam

Edited February 7, 2022 by Adam J

[StarryEyed]

6 minutes ago, Adam J said:

I used a 130PDS with a ASI1600mm pro... 

Adam

Superb. 

[ONIKKINEN]

This camera: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001359313736.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f047164JGhOx6&algo_pvid=88c7fc7f-59b2-4b58-9bdc-a75b08237944&algo_exp_id=88c7fc7f-59b2-4b58-9bdc-a75b08237944-0

Would be better in terms of specs in almost every category, and with binning or super pixel debayering you get a similar resolution as the QHY8L. Price is difficult to say, many places have wildly different prices.

Astroshop: https://www.astroshop.eu/astronomical-cameras/qhy-camera-8l-color/p,58166

Rother valley optics: https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/qhy8l-one-shot-colour-ccd-camera.html

The Rising cam would be cheaper than the one Astroshop sells but more expensive than the RVO one. Not sure how there can be this much price difference between the 2?

Anyway, specs wise the Rising cam IMX571 will beat the QHY8L so not sure i would go for the QHY8L, unless you get it used for very cheap.

If you dont want to go for a less known brand you could always get something like the ZWO 294MC, which also will beat the QHY8L in specs. Any particular reason you wanted the QHY8L specifically?

[BrendanC]

Interesting, I've heard of RisingCam before. I would probably be looking at a second-hand QHY though, I've seen them for around the £500 mark, and I doubt there are many second-hand RisingCams around. Also the support would worry me, paying something that price..

The reason I like the QHY cam is that I keep hearing good things about it, it has a wopping great sensor, and huge pixels.

[Adam J]

6 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

Interesting, I've heard of RisingCam before. I would probably be looking at a second-hand QHY though, I've seen them for around the £500 mark, and I doubt there are many second-hand RisingCams around. Also the support would worry me, paying something that price..

The reason I like the QHY cam is that I keep hearing good things about it, it has a wopping great sensor, and huge pixels.

yeah but how old are those reports, the camera is over a good decade old. 

[ONIKKINEN]

3 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

Interesting, I've heard of RisingCam before. I would probably be looking at a second-hand QHY though, I've seen them for around the £500 mark, and I doubt there are many second-hand RisingCams around. Also the support would worry me, paying something that price..

The reason I like the QHY cam is that I keep hearing good things about it, it has a wopping great sensor, and huge pixels.

Well, i wont be putting my RisingCam up for sale any time soon, lets put it that way 😁.

[powerlord]

@ONIKKINEN - do you know if there is any success in running zwo firmware with the rising cam imx251 ? I'm a through and thorugh asiair'er (3 of them), and I'd love to grabo one of these beauties if I can make it compatible with my asiair. otherwise, it's a non starter.

I know, it's a long shot bot though if you are following risingcam forums, etc you might know ?

stu

[ONIKKINEN]

1 minute ago, powerlord said:

@ONIKKINEN - do you know if there is any success in running zwo firmware with the rising cam imx251 ? I'm a through and thorugh asiair'er (3 of them), and I'd love to grabo one of these beauties if I can make it compatible with my asiair. otherwise, it's a non starter.

I know, it's a long shot bot though if you are following risingcam forums, etc you might know ?

stu

Sorry, dont know if there is a way. I'm not super technically oriented so im not sure how to go about figuring if this could be done somehow. Maybe some electronics wizard could get the RisingCam to appear as a ZWO product to the ASIAIR but i wont be risking my unit becoming one ⚡.

 

[BrendanC]

20 minutes ago, Adam J said:

yeah but how old are those reports, the camera is over a good decade old. 

I did not realise that. Thanks! Looks like I'll be checking out the other alternatives then.

[Realtimedoctor]

Hey, 

A few years ago, I made the same similar switch from a dslr to QHY8L, almost new, from a fellow friend of mine. At that time, I got similar advice, it's an old camera, why bother etc etc. 

I stuck with my gun, and got the QHY8L. Used it für a little over 2 years. No regrets at all. It's a great camera, yes it's old! However, does it really matter? The point is, it works, and works great. It's pictures are as good as you can get, at this price point. If buying second hand, I don't think there is anything that really that beats QHY8L in terms of fov, and the pictures you get from it. 

To people, who say why? It's a damn big sensor, and that matters to most people. 

I hope I don't offend anyone, and I'm certainly not as experienced as others in this forum. This is just my personal experience. 

 

Cheers, 

Nish 

 

PS - I had the QHY8L on top of a 200p 

[BrendanC]

Great advice, thank you!

The FOV is a big thing, especially when moving from a DSLR. Still, as others say, perhaps there are better deals to be had with newer models.

Thanks everyone for the advice and hopefully I'll make the right choice for me.

Cheers, Brendan

[Adam J]

4 hours ago, Realtimedoctor said:

Hey, 

A few years ago, I made the same similar switch from a dslr to QHY8L, almost new, from a fellow friend of mine. At that time, I got similar advice, it's an old camera, why bother etc etc. 

I stuck with my gun, and got the QHY8L. Used it für a little over 2 years. No regrets at all. It's a great camera, yes it's old! However, does it really matter? The point is, it works, and works great. It's pictures are as good as you can get, at this price point. If buying second hand, I don't think there is anything that really that beats QHY8L in terms of fov, and the pictures you get from it. 

To people, who say why? It's a damn big sensor, and that matters to most people. 

I hope I don't offend anyone, and I'm certainly not as experienced as others in this forum. This is just my personal experience. 

 

Cheers, 

Nish 

 

PS - I had the QHY8L on top of a 200p 

Nothing wrong with it for a good used price. But buying one new would be a little crazy.

[Realtimedoctor]

8 hours ago, Adam J said:

Nothing wrong with it for a good used price. But buying one new would be a little crazy.

If somewhat agree with that. Having says that, I don't think any of the UK suppliers stock it anymore. 

If spending £1000, I think there are likely better alternatives. 

But in used market with a price of around £500(that's what I sold my mine for), I don't think there are a lot of cameras that will give it a run for its money. 

Cheers, 

Nish 

[BrendanC]

Thanks all. I have to admit, the age of the camera had, frankly, passed me by! Now I look again I can see that reviews etc are ten years old, some even older. This is very long in the tooth and I'm not sure I'd even really be prepared to pay £500 for tech that old. I'm not totally discounting it, especially after what @Realtimedoctor says, but it's not top of my list any more.

So, I guess I'll look into the alternatives mentioned. I liked the 'search on Astrobin' idea so I'm going to see which decent OSC model tends most to be used with a 130PDS and take it from there.

Unless, of course, anyone has a strong opinion having used a cooled OSC model with a 130PDS, for the £500-£1,000 price range and can say, for definite, it works really well...?

Edited February 8, 2022 by BrendanC

[Adam J]

13 hours ago, BrendanC said:

Thanks all. I have to admit, the age of the camera had, frankly, passed me by! Now I look again I can see that reviews etc are ten years old, some even older. This is very long in the tooth and I'm not sure I'd even really be prepared to pay £500 for tech that old. I'm not totally discounting it, especially after what @Realtimedoctor says, but it's not top of my list any more.

So, I guess I'll look into the alternatives mentioned. I liked the 'search on Astrobin' idea so I'm going to see which decent OSC model tends most to be used with a 130PDS and take it from there.

Unless, of course, anyone has a strong opinion having used a cooled OSC model with a 130PDS, for the £500-£1,000 price range and can say, for definite, it works really well...?

 

Not a bad option....

[BrendanC]

Interestingly it's the 294 chip that I've decided to look into and the Altair is on the shortlist so thanks for this.