Help with EP and barlow

[Sky-watcher127]

Hello everyone,

I need advice getting new eyepieces for my maks 127/1500. I have two eyepieces that came with it, 25mm and 10mm.

Looking around the web, general consenzus is to replace 10mm. 25 mm is not that bad, but for me it seems the eye relief is a little small.

My idea is to have 2-3 quality EP, and x2 barlow.

Since i tend to overthink I can't really decide.

For barlow I was thinking something in this price range

https://www.astroshop.eu/barlow-lenses/celestron-x-cel-lx-1-25-2x-barlow-lens/p,24891
https://www.astroshop.eu/barlow-lenses/explore-scientific-barlow-lens-focal-extender-2x-1-25-/p,54035

 

For eyepieces I really don't know, I've read bunch of blogs, seen youtube videos bit still can't quite decide. Just to mention I don't wear glasses nor have astigmatism, but would be good if you can recommend something that will be ok for my 6 year old, if that counts as something.

Oh, almost forgot I'd like to use telescope for astrophotography as well, but don't want to jump in just yet.

Thank you

[Stu1smartcookie]

EP's are easy for others to reccomend as most will have their personal favourites . One thing which might help from your side is to let us know what budget you have for EP's .

You may want to consider a zoom EP ?

Maybe a very low power Ep , a mid range one and a high(ish ) power one ... i have a couple of baader hyperions that i quite like . But its horses for courses , and some might point you in a certain direction due to the scope you have . 

Stu 

 

[KP82]

The most popular step up eyepieces from the stock 25mm/10mm are the BST starguiders:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html

These offer quality views that punch above their price bracket. They also provide ample eye relief (16mm+) and reasonably wide fov (60deg). BTW FLO offer multi-buy discounts with the BST eyepieces and barlows, so you might as well grab the 2x BST shorty barlow instead of the celestron or ES you mentioned. As for focal lengths that suit your Mak, I'd say 25mm, 18mm and 12mm for a 3-piece set with barlow or 25, 15 and 8 without barlow.

If you'd like to go for something even higher, you need to let us know your budget so we can advise accordingly.

For astrophotography I assume you mean snapshots with your smartphone. Otherwise I'd suggest you will need a different scope for it because your Mak isn't really suitable due to its long focal length and slow focal ratio. You will also need a reliable EQ mount with tracking capability for it.

Edited January 25, 2022 by KP82

[Stu1smartcookie]

6 minutes ago, KP82 said:

Otherwise I'd suggest you will need a different scope for it because your Mak isn't really suitable due to its long focal length and slow focal ratio. You will also need a reliable EQ mount with tracking capability for it.

generally i would whole heartedly second this , but , i stumbled on a YouTube channel the other day where a guy had a 127mak on a star adventurer mount , using it for planetary photography with stunning results ... of course , dim DSO's , forget it !!

Edited January 25, 2022 by Stu1smartcookie

[KP82]

1 minute ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

generally i would whole heartedly second this , but , i stumbled on a YouTube chanel the other day where a guy had a 127mak on a star adventurer mount , using it for planetary photography with stunning results ... of course , dim DSO's , forget it !!

You're absolutely right. My fault I left out the planetary imaging part (being mainly a DSO imager myself I usually default to those).

[vlaiv]

I don't think it is wise to spend money on barlow lens with that scope.

Barlow lens is meant to allow one to attain higher magnification. That scope already has 1500mm of focal length and you don't really need shorter focal length eyepiece than say 7-8mm.

Here is example list of what you could get for that scope that won't break the bank:

- Lower power EP:

30mm Vixen NPL

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-npl-eyepieces.html

(don't go for 40mm. As much as it is tempting - it has same true FOV as 30mm but smaller apparent FOV and longer eye relief that can actually be a problem - holding exit pupil is not so comfortable with very long eye relief).

- Medium power EP:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-eyepieces/stellalyra-20mm-125-superview-eyepiece.html

- Get this as well for high power viewing:

https://www.svbony.com/SV135-1-25inch-Zoom-Eyepiece-/

Although it has 7-21mm range, you'll probably use it in say 7-14mm range because very small FOV in longer focal lengths.

[Sky-watcher127]

28 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

One thing which might help from your side is to let us know what budget you have for EP's .

You may want to consider a zoom EP ?

Maybe a very low power Ep , a mid range one and a high(ish ) power one ... i have a couple of baader hyperions that i quite like . But its horses for courses , and some might point you in a certain direction due to the scope you have . 

 

 

I forgot to mention mount is Az-Gti, I know it is not EQ, but it is a start.

I have considered zoom EP, but not sure how they behave from end to end. I guess primes are always better, but like I said new to those stuff.

I wouldn't want to save on those things as it is for the long run, but I also don't want to spend too much as I am just getting started. I would say somewhere in between 100 - 140€ per ep/barlow.

 

Quote

For astrophotography I assume you mean snapshots with your smartphone. Otherwise I'd suggest you will need a different scope for it because your Mak isn't really suitable due to its long focal length and slow focal ratio. You will also need a reliable EQ mount with tracking capability for it.

I do own a D5600 nikon, with 70-200mm and a 18-50mm, so have something to start with, but would rather wait for a year rather than going all over the place and end up loosing interest.

And mostly it would be for planetary and hopefully those not so dim DSOs.

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

You can definitely take planetary images with this Maksutov + a dedicated planetary video camera.  You do not need an equatorial mount for this and you could use the AZ-GTI mount, but a more rigid mount and tripod would make the excercise less trying.

And you do not need a Barlow lens with this scope.  Also a scope with this focal ratio is relatively forgiving of eyepieces, so you can select Plossl eyepieces for the lower powers if your budget is limited.

[Sky-watcher127]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

I don't think it is wise to spend money on barlow lens with that scope.

Barlow lens is meant to allow one to attain higher magnification. That scope already has 1500mm of focal length and you don't really need shorter focal length eyepiece than say 7-8mm.

Here is example list of what you could get for that scope that won't break the bank:

- Lower power EP:

30mm Vixen NPL

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-npl-eyepieces.html

(don't go for 40mm. As much as it is tempting - it has same true FOV as 30mm but smaller apparent FOV and longer eye relief that can actually be a problem - holding exit pupil is not so comfortable with very long eye relief).

- Medium power EP:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-eyepieces/stellalyra-20mm-125-superview-eyepiece.html

- Get this as well for high power viewing:

https://www.svbony.com/SV135-1-25inch-Zoom-Eyepiece-/

Although it has 7-21mm range, you'll probably use it in say 7-14mm range because very small FOV in longer focal lengths.

Interesting choices and I see why no barlow.

Since my budget is a bit bigger, would you change anything else? I mean not that I am asking to spend more, just wanted to see if the price range changes anything in terms of quality.

 

Thank you

 

 

[vlaiv]

5 minutes ago, Sky-watcher127 said:

Interesting choices and I see why no barlow.

Since my budget is a bit bigger, would you change anything else? I mean not that I am asking to spend more, just wanted to see if the price range changes anything in terms of quality.

 

Thank you

 

 

That really depends what sort of views you are after.

I have 102mm Mak for lunar.

Biggest issue that I have with that scope is size of exit pupil. I guess that is just because I'm used to faster scopes for general observing and the fact that I observed mostly from light polluted areas. With F/6 scope and 32mm eyepiece - sky will look bluish/grey at low magnifications / wide field in light polluted skies.

For me it feels strange to use 32mm eyepiece and get very dark background - not something that I'm used to. Mind you - I don't really feel that boxed in as far as field of view goes. My main observing scope is F/6 8" dob - which has 1200mm of focal length - only 100mm shorter than my mak at 1300mm. It is just that when I use 32mm on 102 mak - it feels like using 8" dob with 3/4 of aperture covered with something - image is darker (again - it is due to what I'm used to).

I usually use ES 82° eyepieces with my Mak. These give good sharp view (11mm, 6.7mm). I also have 16mm 68°.

If you want a bit more expensive / better eyepieces / wider field of view - I'd say look into ES 62 and 68mm lines for longer focal lengths and ES82 for shorter focal lengths.

Why did I mention exit pupil? Well - those more expensive eyepieces have wider field of view and that means shorter focal length for same field stop.

ES68 24mm will show you the same amount of sky as say 30/32mm plossl (52° or 50° degrees AFOV) - but will do so with smaller exit pupil. You'll be around 2mm exit pupil with such eyepiece on F/12 scope. You might not mind that and you might find it nicer to have dark background - for me it feels sort of strange.

In any case - most more expensive eyepieces will have wider field of view and hence smaller exit pupil than simple plossls and alike.

If you are after best planetary performance with tracked scope then look at Vixen SLV line - these are very sharp eyepieces.

Again - don't go below about 8mm. I have ES82 6.7mm and it gives too much magnification for my eyes even on lunar (which can take up quite a bit of mag). I'll probably get ES82 8.8mm for that scope at some point

 

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

4 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

That really depends what sort of views you are after.

I have 102mm Mak for lunar.

Biggest issue that I have with that scope is size of exit pupil. I guess that is just because I'm used to faster scopes for general observing and the fact that I observed mostly from light polluted areas. With F/6 scope and 32mm eyepiece - sky will look bluish/grey at low magnifications / wide field in light polluted skies.

For me it feels strange to use 32mm eyepiece and get very dark background - not something that I'm used to. Mind you - I don't really feel that boxed in as far as field of view goes. My main observing scope is F/6 8" dob - which has 1200mm of focal length - only 100mm shorter than my mak at 1300mm. It is just that when I use 32mm on 102 mak - it feels like using 8" dob with 3/4 of aperture covered with something - image is darker (again - it is due to what I'm used to).

I usually use ES 82° eyepieces with my Mak. These give good sharp view (11mm, 6.7mm). I also have 16mm 68°.

If you want a bit more expensive / better eyepieces / wider field of view - I'd say look into ES 62 and 68mm lines for longer focal lengths and ES82 for shorter focal lengths.

Why did I mention exit pupil? Well - those more expensive eyepieces have wider field of view and that means shorter focal length for same field stop.

ES68 24mm will show you the same amount of sky as say 30/32mm plossl (52° or 50° degrees AFOV) - but will do so with smaller exit pupil. You'll be around 2mm exit pupil with such eyepiece on F/12 scope. You might not mind that and you might find it nicer to have dark background - for me it feels sort of strange.

In any case - most more expensive eyepieces will have wider field of view and hence smaller exit pupil than simple plossls and alike.

If you are after best planetary performance with tracked scope then look at Vixen SLV line - these are very sharp eyepieces.

Again - don't go below about 8mm. I have ES82 6.7mm and it gives too much magnification for my eyes even on lunar (which can take up quite a bit of mag). I'll probably get ES82 8.8mm for that scope at some point

 

 

Really informative ( not just for the OP ) Vlaiv . I like the look of the ES 82 degree EP's .. and i totally get the max power of an 8mm EP ... giving 187.5 x mag . on a 127 mak . There will be times when the magnification can be pushed of course and theoretically this scope can take in excess of 200 x  , but as we know , UK skies are very unpredictable . 

[Sky-watcher127]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

That really depends what sort of views you are after.

I have 102mm Mak for lunar.

Biggest issue that I have with that scope is size of exit pupil. I guess that is just because I'm used to faster scopes for general observing and the fact that I observed mostly from light polluted areas. With F/6 scope and 32mm eyepiece - sky will look bluish/grey at low magnifications / wide field in light polluted skies.

For me it feels strange to use 32mm eyepiece and get very dark background - not something that I'm used to. Mind you - I don't really feel that boxed in as far as field of view goes. My main observing scope is F/6 8" dob - which has 1200mm of focal length - only 100mm shorter than my mak at 1300mm. It is just that when I use 32mm on 102 mak - it feels like using 8" dob with 3/4 of aperture covered with something - image is darker (again - it is due to what I'm used to).

I usually use ES 82° eyepieces with my Mak. These give good sharp view (11mm, 6.7mm). I also have 16mm 68°.

If you want a bit more expensive / better eyepieces / wider field of view - I'd say look into ES 62 and 68mm lines for longer focal lengths and ES82 for shorter focal lengths.

Why did I mention exit pupil? Well - those more expensive eyepieces have wider field of view and that means shorter focal length for same field stop.

ES68 24mm will show you the same amount of sky as say 30/32mm plossl (52° or 50° degrees AFOV) - but will do so with smaller exit pupil. You'll be around 2mm exit pupil with such eyepiece on F/12 scope. You might not mind that and you might find it nicer to have dark background - for me it feels sort of strange.

In any case - most more expensive eyepieces will have wider field of view and hence smaller exit pupil than simple plossls and alike.

If you are after best planetary performance with tracked scope then look at Vixen SLV line - these are very sharp eyepieces.

Again - don't go below about 8mm. I have ES82 6.7mm and it gives too much magnification for my eyes even on lunar (which can take up quite a bit of mag). I'll probably get ES82 8.8mm for that scope at some point

 

 

Thank you for all the advices, it was really informative, and you gave me something to think about

Vixen SLV looks really good

 

[vlaiv]

52 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Really informative ( not just for the OP ) Vlaiv . I like the look of the ES 82 degree EP's .. and i totally get the max power of an 8mm EP ... giving 187.5 x mag . on a 127 mak . There will be times when the magnification can be pushed of course and theoretically this scope can take in excess of 200 x  , but as we know , UK skies are very unpredictable . 

It is also down to personal preference besides usual things like seeing and thermal stability.

Not all of us have same visual acuity, some don't need as much magnification to be able to see all that scope is capable of.  Usually quoted figure is x2 per mm of aperture as "max" magnification. This would mean about x250 for this scope. I've found that for my eyesight and preference (I like less mag but sharper looking image) it is closer to x1.2.

Does not mean that scope can't be pushed higher - like that something is wrong with the image. I usually don't really need more magnification than that. This is why 11mm gives best views on my little mak. That scope is very sharp by the way so it's not down to optics as is often believed. 1300 / 11 = x118.2.

Using 6.7mm really softens up the view for me and is not to my liking - that is why I want to try 8.8mm on the moon.

With dob I also go for about x250 max

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Really informative ( not just for the OP ) Vlaiv . I like the look of the ES 82 degree EP's .. and i totally get the max power of an 8mm EP ... giving 187.5 x mag . on a 127 mak . There will be times when the magnification can be pushed of course and theoretically this scope can take in excess of 200 x  , but as we know , UK skies are very unpredictable . 

It's not just seeing.  The exit pupil becomes so small at very high powers that floaters in your eye's vitreous humor start to noticeably block the tiny pencil beam of light before it gets to your retina, just like clouds in the sky.  I flick my eye to the side to get a few fractions of a second better view before they drift back to the center and block the view again.

[Zermelo]

38 minutes ago, Louis D said:

It's not just seeing.  The exit pupil becomes so small at very high powers that floaters in your eye's vitreous humor start to noticeably block the tiny pencil beam of light before it gets to your retina, just like clouds in the sky.  I flick my eye to the side to get a few fractions of a second better view before they drift back to the center and block the view again.

+1 for that.

I have a Mak 127 and occasionally I get conditions that let me take it to 300x and beyond, but the floaters make it an uncomfortable experience so I don't do it for long.

One of the big advantages of the Mak's long focal length is precisely that you don't need to use (expensive if they're good) short eyepieces to get decent magnifications.

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, Zermelo said:

One of the big advantages of the Mak's long focal length is precisely that you don't need to use (expensive if they're good) short eyepieces to get decent magnifications.

But on the flipside, it's long focal ratio makes getting to large exit pupils for narrowband nebula filter usage difficult.  If you want a 6mm exit pupil at f/12, you need a 6*12=72mm eyepiece!  Good luck finding a 2", let alone 1.25", example of one.  Surplus Shed, Russell Optics and Siebert Optics (in 2.5" to 4.3" barrels) all sell some home-brew examples on this side of the pond, but that's about it to my knowledge.

[Zermelo]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

But on the flipside, it's long focal ratio makes getting to large exit pupils for narrowband nebula filter usage difficult.  If you want a 6mm exit pupil at f/12, you need a 6*12=72mm eyepiece!  Good luck finding a 2", let alone 1.25", example of one.  Surplus Shed, Russell Optics and Siebert Optics (in 2.5" to 4.3" barrels) all sell some home-brew examples on this side of the pond, but that's about it to my knowledge.

No, I wouldn't attempt to get a 6mm pupil out of my Mak.  If it were important to use a nebula filter, I'd use a different scope.  I really like the Mak, but it's horses for courses.