Gumtree scams

[bf79]

I know I should know better but I found a “too good to be true” bargain on gumtree on Thursday night, an older Celestron 8SE for £350. Only issue is it was 300 miles away. 
After several messages back and forward with the seller, I sent a £25 deposit to hold it for me and on arranging a suitable time to collect they asked me to come today (Sunday). 
 

After a 300 mile drive from Motherwell to Skegness, arrived at the address or the householder to stand there and blatantly lie saying he didn't know anything about it and hadn't advertised anything. Going by the pictures of the telescope in the garden, I’m convinced it was the right house, and the fact Ive been in the police for 16 years I know when someone is lying to me. 
My mate who came with me looked ip the advert, messaged the seller who instantly replied “sorry, its sold”. 

So Im convinced they sold it to someone and didn't have the decency to tell me and let me do a 600 mile, 12 hour round trip costing me £100 in fuel for nothing. 
 

Absolutely raging now.
Think i’ll give gumtree a miss from now on… as I said, I should have known better. 

[Nakedgun]

The Lubyanka breakfast too good for 'em, I say!

[Robindonne]

Really nasty😣

[Stu]

That’s really rough, would refund your deposit I assume? How did you pay that?

I’ve always considered Gumtree more about free stuff, and for local collections rather than anything else.

[AstroKeith]

I've recently had a bit of a clear out and tried selling stuff on Gumtree.

Waste of time! Lots of time wasting buyers out there too.

Their buyer/seller rating system isnt working either, which is one of the better aspects of fleabay. I stopped selling on eBay when they ditched PayPal.

I wont bother with Gumtree again.

[AstroKeith]

8 hours ago, bf79 said:

I know I should know better but I found a “too good to be true” bargain on gumtree on Thursday night, an older Celestron 8SE for £350. Only issue is it was 300 miles away. 
After several messages back and forward with the seller, I sent a £25 deposit to hold it for me and on arranging a suitable time to collect they asked me to come today (Sunday). 
 

After a 300 mile drive from Motherwell to Skegness, arrived at the address or the householder to stand there and blatantly lie saying he didn't know anything about it and hadn't advertised anything. Going by the pictures of the telescope in the garden, I’m convinced it was the right house, and the fact Ive been in the police for 16 years I know when someone is lying to me. 
My mate who came with me looked ip the advert, messaged the seller who instantly replied “sorry, its sold”. 

So Im convinced they sold it to someone and didn't have the decency to tell me and let me do a 600 mile, 12 hour round trip costing me £100 in fuel for nothing. 
 

Absolutely raging now.
Think i’ll give gumtree a miss from now on… as I said, I should have known better. 

Yes, Gumtree is rotten.

Make sure you leave a 1 star seller review and some clear feedback!

[bf79]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

That’s really rough, would refund your deposit I assume? How did you pay that?

I’ve always considered Gumtree more about free stuff, and for local collections rather than anything else.

Bank transfer unfortunately, thankfully it was only £25. They're not replying to any messages now so I assume I wont be seeing that again. 
I don't mean that in the sense I can afford to lose it but it could have been worse, Im glad I didn't take up the offer of them posting it. 
 

Its a strange one, if it was a fake advert and they were just trying to scam money, why say to my mate its sold instead of trying to scam a deposit from him as well? And I told them where I was coming from, so if someone messaged them offering more than the asking price then I get that, but why not just be honest with me and tell me that? If that was the case Id probably have matched the other offer after checking the optics etc 

[Carbon Brush]

I'm really sorry to hear of your experience. Sadly I suspect you may not be the only victim.

For all of us buying from an untrusted source in future, perhaps we should request a photo of the scope outside the front door?
Though there are probably 99 other ways the villains can get around this.

Alternatively an SGL 'local agent' might assist.
If you saw a scope for sale, from someone you didn't know and it was near to my home, I would happily drive there to check it out and leave a deposit, or even buy it.
Something would have to be agreed about my (lack of) competence to inspect and not being liable for missing major defects, etc.
There a lots of good honest folks on SGL who I would trust to do this sort of thing for me.
A bit of local knowledge from 'the agent' might show the seller to be honest, or warn that is the 15th scope he has advertised this January.

Some years ago I (and several others) were scammed by a 'seller' on UKABS. For each of us it was a small sum, not worth chasing.
In the tens of pounds each and a lot of fuel spent to go and knock on the door.
However, collectively it was hundreds of pounds for the scammer, collected over a couple of months.
We set up a private chat on SGL to exchange information and more victims came out of the woodwork.
In the end we got the police got involved. We all got our money back. The scammer and several of his family became known to the police.

The bank involved in my transfer got a letter from me detailing the 'Action Fraud' reference, local police details, names of others in the scam, etc.
I hope that following this, the account holder would not receive favourable responses when requesting a car loan, mortgage, overdraft, etc.
Perhaps that is a little something you could do?

 

 

[Ian McCallum]

18 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

I'm really sorry to hear of your experience. Sadly I suspect you may not be the only victim.

For all of us buying from an untrusted source in future, perhaps we should request a photo of the scope outside the front door?
Though there are probably 99 other ways the villains can get around this.

Alternatively an SGL 'local agent' might assist.
If you saw a scope for sale, from someone you didn't know and it was near to my home, I would happily drive there to check it out and leave a deposit, or even buy it.
Something would have to be agreed about my (lack of) competence to inspect and not being liable for missing major defects, etc.
There a lots of good honest folks on SGL who I would trust to do this sort of thing for me.
A bit of local knowledge from 'the agent' might show the seller to be honest, or warn that is the 15th scope he has advertised this January.

Some years ago I (and several others) were scammed by a 'seller' on UKABS. For each of us it was a small sum, not worth chasing.
In the tens of pounds each and a lot of fuel spent to go and knock on the door.
However, collectively it was hundreds of pounds for the scammer, collected over a couple of months.
We set up a private chat on SGL to exchange information and more victims came out of the woodwork.
In the end we got the police got involved. We all got our money back. The scammer and several of his family became known to the police.

The bank involved in my transfer got a letter from me detailing the 'Action Fraud' reference, local police details, names of others in the scam, etc.
I hope that following this, the account holder would not receive favourable responses when requesting a car loan, mortgage, overdraft, etc.
Perhaps that is a little something you could do?

 

 

Is this it?🤔

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hxNksq76rYQJ:https://www.gumtree.com/p/telescopes/celestron-nexstar-telescope-8se-extras./1423506226+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera

[banjaxed]

Sounds like the old saying “if it looks to be good to be true then it probably is” has proved  to be right on this occasion 🙁

[Franklin]

Stick with bona fide astro sellers on here and ABS. I've been tempted by bargains on Ebay and such in the past and have ended up with trash. Folk with a genuine interest in the hobby tend to look after their equipment well and buying secondhand from SGL members and on ABS, you can be pretty confident you will be getting proper stuff in good condition at a fraction of full retail. No such thing as a bargain though, not in this hobby anyway!🙂

[bf79]

2 hours ago, Ian McCallum said:

Is this it?🤔

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hxNksq76rYQJ:https://www.gumtree.com/p/telescopes/celestron-nexstar-telescope-8se-extras./1423506226+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera

Yes, thats the one. Think its removed now 

[bf79]

24 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Stick with bona fide astro sellers on here and ABS. I've been tempted by bargains on Ebay and such in the past and have ended up with trash. Folk with a genuine interest in the hobby tend to look after their equipment well and buying secondhand from SGL members and on ABS, you can be pretty confident you will be getting proper stuff in good condition at a fraction of full retail. No such thing as a bargain though, not in this hobby anyway!🙂

Absolutely, Ive bought a couple of things on here and never had any issue. I wouldnt hesitate to buy from someone on here. 
 

Unfortunately Ive got a pretty low post count despite being a member on here for a few years so I think Im the one thats not trusted when I reply to some ads 😂

Really need to start getting involved more and not just when Im having a rant 😂

[Swoop1]

8 minutes ago, bf79 said:

Yes, thats the one. Think its removed now 

Looks like a recent add to me (shows posted 34 minutes agao).

 

Ignore me- just seen it was a cached ad.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Swoop1

[wookie1965]

Just tried viewing the item said no longer listed and said here is a picture of a kitten/cat 

[Stu]

The cached version can still be viewed.

@bf79 have you reported it as fraudulent? Seems a wise thing to do.

[Franklin]

3 hours ago, wookie1965 said:

kitten/cat 

With a tie on.

[apaulo]

i think thats a good idea by carbon brush, the possibility of  getting someone from on here to check an ad out. especially when a considerable distance is involved for the interested parties. could work. dont need to check the item , just make sure its a genuine sale.

[saac]

Would the small claims court provide anything in the way of redress.  If it applies to situations like this then may be worth considering, pursue for deposit and fuel. 

Jim 

[Carbon Brush]

ref @saac Interesting idea. Even if the process may be long and drawn out.
In the case of my scam. One of the victims lived only 50/60 miles away and held a karate black belt.
It took some persuading to keep him from trying a more direct approach.

I didn't say earlier that after some research we found our scammer actually had a genuine interest in astronomy.
We had 'mugshots' of him visiting the Herschel Museum. He had even attended an SGL star party.
Once on the net, you can be found then tracked for a very long time!

Needless to say we got the message to him that if he did attend the next SGL party (he had booked), images of hordes of peasants with flaming torches and pitchforks (or heavy tripods) came to mind - regardless of compromising night vision. No surprise, he did not attend. I have no idea if he requested, or was given, a site refund.

We ensured his activity was made known to SGL and UKABS.
He was not banned from either. But was monitored. Don Corleoni 's advice on keeping your enemies closer than friends comes to mind.

We also ensured that every astronomy club within 150 miles of his home, that could be easily contacted, was notified of his activity.
Adding a suggestion to nail down eyepieces and the like should he visit.

We last heard of him trying to sell (from memory) an 8" newt on gumtree or something similar.
Whether the scope existed or not, I have no idea. But he could not post sale ads on SGL or UKABS.

So his scamming dropped himself and his family deep in 'it' with the police and the bank. He destroyed his access to the social side of astronomy for no doubt several years.
This was a far more effective and enduring punishment than the nominal fine and slap on the wrist that might be expected from the conventional route.

Sorry to hijack the thread. But I wanted to say by way of encouragement that the villains don't always win. The victims can strike back.
In my case it turned out that by making it known in the astro community there was a villain, more victims made themselves known and we worked together to identify and stop him.
If anyone else has had problems buying something from Skegness, speak now..........

Finally I would like to add that ALL of my purchases from SGL members have been 100% positive experiences. And there have been a lot!
Meeting friendly, interesting, and often like minded people on personal collections.
Never being ripped off by poorly described items sent by post.
Long may this continue.

David.

 

[bf79]

2 hours ago, saac said:

Would the small claims court provide anything in the way of redress.  If it applies to situations like this then may be worth considering, pursue for deposit and fuel. 

Jim 

Unfortunately I don't think Id ever be able to prove that it was them that actually put the advert online 🙁

[bf79]

Appreciate all the replies and advice folks. 
The seller “Kelly” said her husband's name was Julian Shaw, maybe the admins could see if he’s registered on here? 🤔

[bf79]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

The cached version can still be viewed.

@bf79 have you reported it as fraudulent? Seems a wise thing to do.

Yes I did report it, but Im not convinced it actually worked, same with the feedback system when I tried to use that.
My mate that was with me did manage to report it and leave feedback though so hopefully its worked for one of us

[julianxxx]

On 18/01/2022 at 00:27, bf79 said:

Appreciate all the replies and advice folks. 
The seller “Kelly” said her husband's name was Julian Shaw, maybe the admins could see if he’s registered on here? 🤔

This is a shock.

I just did a search on my own name to find some previous posts and this came up. My name happens to be Julian Shaw and, as you could have found out for yourself, I am registered here. I have never owned a Celestron 8SE, I do not live in Lincolnshire and my wife's name is not Kelly! 

I am sorry for your loss but you should realise that spreading scammer misinformation can have negative consequences for innocent people. 

[dweller25]

33 minutes ago, julianxxx said:

This is a shock.

I just did a search on my own name to find some previous posts and this came up. My name happens to be Julian Shaw and, as you could have found out for yourself, I am registered here. I have never owned a Celestron 8SE, I do not live in Lincolnshire and my wife's name is not Kelly! 

I am sorry for your loss but you should realise that spreading scammer misinformation can have negative consequences for innocent people. 

Just wondering how you could you find your previous posts if your post count is 1 - which is the post above ?

Edited August 22, 2022 by dweller25