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State of the art power packs / 240 to 12v transformers


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I'm discovering that my Celestron lead acid power packs only last for a few hours before running out, resulting in a need to power off and re align the mount.

What is the state of the art Li Ion equivalent these days?

Are people generally using 240 to 12v power converters if observing from home? And if so, which power supply and do you have one with multi outputs for dew heaters and the like?

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Hi I use the celestron power pack the big one I can run telescope and dew heaters it's rated for 10 hours I have not done 10 hours but does last a long time 

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8Nwyq7hYYs05vIIpXZdZzLDVUCUycjgmXfLmQ_yc4ecvL2up3peJZPU0pUvm1Nbhc-1w920Ar_qyJxep1qeOkLbx63Vmw76c5crjv33H1pQg-CVLO8dbH_mcd8MRkK8EINQqFJ4f0j8Owr_kIFtI23fNJOuL6GNeAgAdYTgZKGdjWuDBMtCG3RdDZYwVK5msjXAT3bA&u=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&rlid=4fb337fbb3021080f6b2561b3ab4597c

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8auvSOeU7TUh_7BBj1In9XDVUCUxhp1rCNtWCDvGdM5rnNVeTdelc28alLaJgPAUn3VTRVKyXkt5fd4UTJIApnNX_F0CvBFoGRVWQGlLZJUJYD7vk8eUilDKXvIxR9NgqjVdVPOBhmEPziIvZWecZvd_C7Hc7Xykl_f-yaL7Pnwr-xVJTn41oj5sB5jQmNTfYZecNqw&u=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&rlid=d7ab799e27731bab664a187eaec56421

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I use this one: https://ecoflow.com/products/ecoflow-river-portable-power-station

although not sure if its available in the UK. Jackery branded similar specced powerstations do appear to be available in amazon.

But this one will run an observing (non imaging, so no power hungry gadgets outside the mount) setup for longer than you could ever use it in a single sitting. The DC- side is regulated to 13.6V, although this does change depending on the payload. But never goes below 12V, or even that close to it. For imaging power needs it still easily lasts longer than my patience when outside, so has never run out.

7 minutes ago, Neil H said:

Hi I use the celestron power pack the big one I can run telescope and dew heaters it's rated for 10 hours I have not done 10 hours but does last a long time 

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8Nwyq7hYYs05vIIpXZdZzLDVUCUycjgmXfLmQ_yc4ecvL2up3peJZPU0pUvm1Nbhc-1w920Ar_qyJxep1qeOkLbx63Vmw76c5crjv33H1pQg-CVLO8dbH_mcd8MRkK8EINQqFJ4f0j8Owr_kIFtI23fNJOuL6GNeAgAdYTgZKGdjWuDBMtCG3RdDZYwVK5msjXAT3bA&u=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&rlid=4fb337fbb3021080f6b2561b3ab4597c

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8auvSOeU7TUh_7BBj1In9XDVUCUxhp1rCNtWCDvGdM5rnNVeTdelc28alLaJgPAUn3VTRVKyXkt5fd4UTJIApnNX_F0CvBFoGRVWQGlLZJUJYD7vk8eUilDKXvIxR9NgqjVdVPOBhmEPziIvZWecZvd_C7Hc7Xykl_f-yaL7Pnwr-xVJTn41oj5sB5jQmNTfYZecNqw&u=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&rlid=d7ab799e27731bab664a187eaec56421

I had a bad experience with the smaller Celestron in your links, wouldn't recommend that one. Could not supply enough power to do GO-TOs consistently and auto shut itself down very often. Was never able to use it for anything serious, and that was with a small EQM35.

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I use one of these,

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-ps-08-6a-8a-regulated-linear-power-supply.html 

It is rated at 6a continues with an 8a max surge. Usefully, the  ring connectors are also  female banana connectors, so that is three different connection types including the cigarette socket. My az eq5 on maximum slew plus an 8se dew heater turned on pulls approximately 3 1/4 amps according to the built in ammeter, so still quite a bit spare.

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1 hour ago, DeanCJ said:

I use one of these,

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/nevada-ps-08-6a-8a-regulated-linear-power-supply.html 

It is rated at 6a continues with an 8a max surge. Usefully, the  ring connectors are also  female banana connectors, so that is three different connection types including the cigarette socket. My az eq5 on maximum slew plus an 8se dew heater turned on pulls approximately 3 1/4 amps according to the built in ammeter, so still quite a bit spare.

Seems to suggest use in dry areas. I'm outside without cover... would it suffer?

Hiw do you split the power feed? With in line connectors or diasy chains ?

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I use one of FLO’s Lynx Astro cables with a built in male cigarette lighter adapter, this plugs directly into the power supply’s female socket to power my mount, and for the dew heater I bought some male banana connectors and fixed them to a 5.5 X 2.1 cable, these simply push into the ring terminals on the power supply. 
I put the power supply in a plastic box with the lid partly closed (2/3rds) maybe, this allows air to circulate but the unit seems to stay warm, and fingers crossed no dew yet.

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13 hours ago, Neil H said:

Hi I use the celestron power pack the big one I can run telescope and dew heaters it's rated for 10 hours I have not done 10 hours but does last a long time 

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8Nwyq7hYYs05vIIpXZdZzLDVUCUycjgmXfLmQ_yc4ecvL2up3peJZPU0pUvm1Nbhc-1w920Ar_qyJxep1qeOkLbx63Vmw76c5crjv33H1pQg-CVLO8dbH_mcd8MRkK8EINQqFJ4f0j8Owr_kIFtI23fNJOuL6GNeAgAdYTgZKGdjWuDBMtCG3RdDZYwVK5msjXAT3bA&u=aHR0cHMlM2ElMmYlMmZ3d3cucGFya2NhbWVyYXMuY29tJTJmc2hvcCUyZmNlbGVzdHJvbi1wb3dlcnRhbmstbGl0aGl1bS1wb3J0YWJsZS1wb3dlci1wYWNrXzk3ODkwNDBrJTNmb2Zfb3BpJTNkTUZSV0c1QjVHTTNUTUpUR01WU1dJU0xFSFVaQ000RFNONVNFU1pCNUdJWVRBT0pSJTI2c291cmNlJTNkRnJlZUNsaWNrJTI2YWRHcm91cElkJTNkMTI4ODYyNzk0ODQ5MzExNCUyNmRldmljZSUzZHQlMjZtc2Nsa2lkJTNkNGZiMzM3ZmJiMzAyMTA4MGY2YjI1NjFiM2FiNDU5N2MlMjZ1dG1fc291cmNlJTNkYmluZyUyNnV0bV9tZWRpdW0lM2RjcGMlMjZ1dG1fY2FtcGFpZ24lM2RQNCUyNTIwLSUyNTIwRXZlcnl0aGluZyUyNTIwRWxzZSUyNTIwLSUyNTIwT25lZmVlZCUyNTIwU2hvcHBpbmclMjZ1dG1fdGVybSUzZDQ1ODQxMzg4NzU0NDYxMTElMjZ1dG1fY29udGVudCUzZFA0JTI1MjAtJTI1MjBFdmVyeXRoaW5nJTI1MjBFbHNlJTI1MjAtJTI1MjBPbmVmZWVkJTI1MjBTaG9wcGluZw&rlid=4fb337fbb3021080f6b2561b3ab4597c

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8auvSOeU7TUh_7BBj1In9XDVUCUxhp1rCNtWCDvGdM5rnNVeTdelc28alLaJgPAUn3VTRVKyXkt5fd4UTJIApnNX_F0CvBFoGRVWQGlLZJUJYD7vk8eUilDKXvIxR9NgqjVdVPOBhmEPziIvZWecZvd_C7Hc7Xykl_f-yaL7Pnwr-xVJTn41oj5sB5jQmNTfYZecNqw&u=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&rlid=d7ab799e27731bab664a187eaec56421

I use this Celestron one as well. It is expensive but very good for visual use. I run an EQ6 R Pro and 2 or 3 dew heaters for 5/6 hours with no problem and two lights remaining (indicating that it is still 50% charged

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1 minute ago, Richard136 said:

That's good to know, @Jiggy 67

I was wondering whether running an AZEQ6 from batteries was simply too much

No it’s not, my experience is that it will run it with no problems and a couple of dew heaters to boot. If you are into AP you may need a second supply though. For visual it’s great…..but expensive 

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Your lowest cost fix is to open up the Celestron pack and fit a compatible new battery.
Small lead acid small batteries tend to be made in 'lego brick' sizes. Compatible between manufacturers.
Lead acid is heavy for the power provided and has limited life. But it is cheap.

A new battery should keep you going for a year or two or more. At moderate cost.
They degrade daily, with a loss of capacity. Regardless of use.
You can make it worse by leaving them fully discharged for too long.
This is a feature of the chemistry.
Buy a battery with a known good name. Yuasa for example, but there are others.
If you buy Niki Nokki Noo from China, well you know what to expect.

With lithium, you pay £££ but you can get up to 10 years.
Battery life tends to be measured in discharge cycles rather than calendar date.
So with only a few clear nights each year, it should last for years.
In round figures battery weight for a given power is about 1/3 of lead acid.
A warning that buying lithium with a known name is vital. Same for the charger.
It is very easy to wreck lithium by incorrect charging.
It is not too difficult to turn lithium into a bomb by not correctly fusing, or running an unsuitable charger.
It is though quite safe when used correctly. Think laptops, phones, cameras, etc.
For unsafe, think imported chinese hoverboards, etc.

If it was my shout, in Scrooge mode, I would buy a new lead acid battery.
If I didn't already own the charger, housing, leads, etc. Or I needed a different configuration, then I would buy a lithium package.

HTH, David.

 

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2 hours ago, Mick H said:

I use the TalentCell Rechargeable 36w Lithium Battery pack, lasts for hours and can charge other appliances like mobile phones/headlights etc.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0713T4XT9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks - looks very compact. That says 3A max output. Mount needs 4A so might be a bit under-powered

Edited by Richard136
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Ref the Talentcell pack. Looking at the quoted capacity, I think their maths is a bit off. There are inconsistencies.
The 18650 cells that the pack is built from should be able to provide high current (>4A) but the situation regarding current limit components in the box is not specified.
A classic 'made in China' and 'sold on amazon' situation.

If you really want to go for this pack, try it on some car bulbs and measure the voltage while driving the load.
As a guide, a car brake or indicator lamp is 21W, or 1.75A. A sidelight is often 5W or 6W, about 0.5A.
So using only a voltmeter, you can get a good enough idea of performance.

This is a nice and easy warm daylight test. Much easier than cursing about lost imaging time😭

If PSU performance is not adequate, you can send it back.
Be aware though, some carriers are funny about lithium batteries.
They should be OK about batteries in equipment when shipping within the UK. But some Post Ofices and parcel shippers don't understand.
I once had a carrier reject a 50Kg+ item of equipment for air freight. On the grounds it contained a little coin cell. TV remote type in a holder!
Took out the coin cell and the idiot he was happy.

HTH, David.

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I use a Bresser portable power supply (100W) for powering my AZ-EQ6 mount. It isn't cheap, but it is really light compared to my old car starter battery. The AC output is also useful for charging the laptop on journeys too.

https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Accessories/Power-Supply/BRESSER-Portable-Power-Supply-100-Watt.html

Martin

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On 14/01/2022 at 17:45, Richard136 said:

I may try to replace the older celestron battery in the power-pack as proposed. Not sure what model or capacity but guess it would say once I open up the pack.

Yes an easy solution. Battery case sizes tend to be the same across different manufacturers.
The photo shows two old batteries, one Yuasa, one dodgy make that are the same size, within a millimetre.
These were removed from ride-on kids toys, so are for high discharge rate.

If the manufacturer offers you a choice of type, a general use, rather than high rate is fine for a mount.
It will probably cost less.

This one from Yuasa is a general use. This time the amp-hour capacity, rather than short term power delivery, is stated.
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/batteries/industrial/np-vrla-general-use/np7-12.html

I chose this size to show you because it is the same case size as the ex-toy photo and used in some astro power banks.
But maybe not yours!

The 'faston' terminals on these batteries are the most popular.

Don't worry about the 'made in China' label on the Yuasa stuff. They used to be UK designed and made. But now sub contract assembly for cost. They do though specify the build quality.

HTH, David.

DSCF0820.JPG

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On 15/01/2022 at 19:48, Richard136 said:

Is it possible to replace with a higher AH rating? Or is the circuitry configured for 7AH battery only? Assuming I can find a same size higher AH battery....

Can't be 100% sure but if you can find a higher Ah-rated battery that'll fit in the space, it's very unlikely to be a problem for the circuitry. The downside will be slightly longer charge times - but it won't be much because you won't be able to go much higher in capacity.

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Good news Richard. If you have not yet re-assembled, maybe a photo or two for others in similar situations?

Charging lead acid is easiest done with a constant voltage charger.
Anywhere from 13.2V to 13.8V at room temperature (or cooler) is fine.
With constant voltage charge, you can walk away for months and know there is no risk of over charging.

With constant voltage charge, it doesn't matter (within reason) whether you have a 5Ah or 50Ah battery.
It just means for a given size of charger, time to recharge increases. So does time before you need to recharge😄.

Sometimes people use small constant voltage chargers to look after the battery in idle vehicles. Motor bikes and sports cars in winter hibernation for example.
In this case a 0.1A power supply will be more than enough to prevent self discharge, as well as keep a car clock ticking.
Though a power hungry clever alarm, radio triggered door opener, etc. may need a bit more.

There are schemes to charge lead acid at higher voltage initially to reduce recharge time.
There are also schemes to apply short high voltage pulses at the end of charge to help depassivate - or so it is claimed.
But either of these can go wrong and you need to know the battery size/type to select the correct scheme.
As a general rule, if you have a 'clever' charger intended for a small battery, it won't harm a larger battery.
The reverse is not true.

 

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