Now I know why LP is so bad in my area!

[Broadymike]

I live on the very tip of the Kent coast (thanet). The LP maps reckon I'm in a bortle 5 area so not great but not appalling either. I always thought as half of the night sky that I can see is over over the English channel so no real LP from the east for 30miles that this may improve my LP levels. Its just come up though in the local news that a couple of miles down the road there's a place called "Thanet earth" even though it sounds like it might be an environmentally friendly business its actually just a complex of massive greenhouses witch have lights on all night and no blinds or anything to stop light escaping. Thanet earth as I've just found out is the 2nd worst culprit of LP in the whole of the UK. The only good thing is that I'm on the other side of the island (Thanet used to be cut off from the mainland and is still known as the Isle of thanet) so I'm a little distance away but nowhere near enough distance lol. I have friends that live a lot closer and they've informed me that other than the moon and maybe saturn/jupiter they haven't seen any stars for a few years now even though their house is basically in the middle of a field that is on the cliffs. Luckily there is a big campaign/petition locally to try to get them to sort this out, but with our local authorities I don't hold that much hope lol. 

 

Well thats my rant over! Was just wondering if others have had similar issues with local big businesses wrecking their enjoyment of such a fascinating pastime? Also if anyone is from a high LP area do they have any tips/advice on any filters etc that may help my situation? Also I'll post a pic here to show the extent one selfish businesses effect on our local night sky. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Broadymike
Adding pics

[Astro Noodles]

You ought to be able to filter out that yellow light with a decent CLS filter. It is utterly appalling though.

[Space Hopper]

Why do they need lights on all night ??

What are they growing.....cannabis ??

Whatever it is its appalling.

[discardedastro]

Winter growth of plants does need lots of light. Wembley and Twickenham show up on various news places because of their winter grow lights which are incredibly bright - and as with the above, entirely unshielded, they just light up the entire surrounding environment.

Strikes me that the all-party parliamentary group on dark skies could propose this as a really easy win on light pollution - put a bill in that expressly requires operators of these sorts of lighting systems to take measures to prevent light from escaping into the environment. It's quite mad this is allowed.

Edit: This system is what Wembley use: https://sglsystem.com/EN/Lighting/860/LU440 FLEX - 63kW of HPS lighting per unit and they use 12 units, so about 756kW total draw...

Edited January 2, 2022 by discardedastro

[Broadymike]

5 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

Why do they need lights on all night ??

What are they growing.....cannabis ??

Whatever it is its appalling.

If it was cannabis I might be a little more forgiving lol.

 

Its actually fruit and vegetables. Even if they do feel the need to have the lights on all night why can't they put blinds up to stop the light escaping?  

[Astro Noodles]

Why are they trying to grow fruit and veg during the night?

That can't be cheap or environmentally viable. 

We are all supposed to be finding ways to save energy.

[munirocks]

Kind of ironic and hypocritical that a place called Thanet earth is destroying planet earth like that. There are now many scientific papers that have linked light pollution to the demise of the insect population. Maybe you can use that angle as ammunition in discussions with the council. Nobody cares about astronomers, but they might care about wiping out nature's food chain on a massive scale.

[Broadymike]

8 hours ago, discardedastro said:

Winter growth of plants does need lots of light. Wembley and Twickenham show up on various news places because of their winter grow lights which are incredibly bright - and as with the above, entirely unshielded, they just light up the entire surrounding environment.

Strikes me that the all-party parliamentary group on dark skies could propose this as a really easy win on light pollution - put a bill in that expressly requires operators of these sorts of lighting systems to take measures to prevent light from escaping into the environment. It's quite mad this is allowed.

Apparently a few years ago when thanet earth was first built and was half the size it is now they promised to put blinds up to stop this. Not a thing has been done about that and they slowly keep adding the odd extra greenhouse still with no blinds. 

 

I've already mailed my local MP about it although he's about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Will try and find some info on the parliamentary dark sky lot and see if I can bring this to their attention. 

 

At least Wembley and Twickenham are basically in quite badly polluted skies already. This was built on farmland well outside town. 

[The Lazy Astronomer]

2 minutes ago, Astro Noodles said:

Why are they trying to grow fruit and veg during the night?

That can't be cheap or environmentally viable. 

We are all supposed to be finding ways to save energy.

🤑

Grow it faster, grow it bigger, sell it quicker

[discardedastro]

Found this: https://www.thanetearth.com/Content/pdfs/Thanet Earth and lit production 2019.pdf

40MW of lighting! It is apparently shielded, in part, unlike the football stadiums - they have a photo of their blinds. (edit: though apparently not all their greenhouses...)

4 minutes ago, Astro Noodles said:

Why are they trying to grow fruit and veg during the night?

That can't be cheap or environmentally viable. 

We are all supposed to be finding ways to save energy.

They apparently generate all the power for this from their own waste on site through a CHP plant, so not as bad as it could be on that front, but still not great or renewable..

Edited January 3, 2022 by discardedastro

[Broadymike]

2 minutes ago, munirocks said:

Kind of ironic and hypocritical that a place called Thanet earth is destroying planet earth like that. There are now many scientific papers that have linked light pollution to the demise of the insect population. Maybe you can use that angle as ammunition in discussions with the council. Nobody cares about astronomers, but they might care about wiping out nature's food chain on a massive scale.

To be fair I went with the environmental impact approach citing some scientific papers on the effect to wildlife. That's been the main crux of the local argument/petitions. 

[Broadymike]

2 minutes ago, discardedastro said:

Found this: https://www.thanetearth.com/Content/pdfs/Thanet Earth and lit production 2019.pdf

40MW of lighting! It is apparently shielded, in part, unlike the football stadiums - they have a photo of their blinds. (edit: though apparently not all their greenhouses...)

They apparently generate all the power for this from their own waste on site through a CHP plant, so not as bad as it could be on that front, but still not great or renewable..

As you can see from the pictures I posted there is absolutely no way that they shield the light escaping. There really is no excuse apart from saving money on putting screens/blinds in place. The pictures of the blinds has already been shown in the local press to be a red herring. Apparently according to some staff the blinds are there in a couple of their greenhouses but don't get closed due to lack of maintenence.

 

Basically in this day and age with the technology we have there is literally no excuse for this. 

[Broadymike]

23 minutes ago, Astro Noodles said:

You ought to be able to filter out that yellow light with a decent CLS filter. It is utterly appalling though.

Thanks for that I'll look into that. Anything that may help 8s worth a shot. 

 

[discardedastro]

5 minutes ago, Broadymike said:

14 minutes ago, discardedastro said:

 

As you can see from the pictures I posted there is absolutely no way that they shield the light escaping. There really is no excuse apart from saving money on putting screens/blinds in place. The pictures of the blinds has already been shown in the local press to be a red herring. Apparently according to some staff the blinds are there in a couple of their greenhouses but don't get closed due to lack of maintenence.

Yeah, it really doesn't look shielded. It should be a legal obligation (though given enforcement rates of, say, waste discharge into rivers, that might not be worth anything these days). Really disappointingly bad.

[Broadymike]

1 minute ago, discardedastro said:

Yeah, it really doesn't look shielded. It should be a legal obligation (though given enforcement rates of, say, waste discharge into rivers, that might not be worth anything these days). Really disappointingly bad.

Don't get me started on waste discharge. Just this summer alone southern water have pumped sewage into the sea off the coast less than a mile from my flat at least 4 times. All the beaches in thanet this summer have had advice not to swim because of this. So if you add this to the LP that's a big chunk of my favourite pastimes (I surf occasionally if we have the right conditions) either diminished or completely ruined. 

[Floater]

I feel for you. See attached for my northern sky. Cranes for building of extension to nearby hospital. What gets me most are the big white signs advertising the company’s name, presumably using electricity from the NHS supply. Completion date set for end 2023 … 😣

Please, no quips about red giants. I’ve heard them all!

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Floater

[Second Time Around]

Mike, has anyone looked into whether Thanet Earth are breaking their planning permission?

[jjosefsen]

11 hours ago, Broadymike said:

I live on the very tip of the Kent coast (thanet). The LP maps reckon I'm in a bortle 5 area so not great but not appalling either. I always thought as half of the night sky that I can see is over over the English channel so no real LP from the east for 30miles that this may improve my LP levels. Its just come up though in the local news that a couple of miles down the road there's a place called "Thanet earth" even though it sounds like it might be an environmentally friendly business its actually just a complex of massive greenhouses witch have lights on all night and no blinds or anything to stop light escaping. Thanet earth as I've just found out is the 2nd worst culprit of LP in the whole of the UK. The only good thing is that I'm on the other side of the island (Thanet used to be cut off from the mainland and is still known as the Isle of thanet) so I'm a little distance away but nowhere near enough distance lol. I have friends that live a lot closer and they've informed me that other than the moon and maybe saturn/jupiter they haven't seen any stars for a few years now even though their house is basically in the middle of a field that is on the cliffs. Luckily there is a big campaign/petition locally to try to get them to sort this out, but with our local authorities I don't hold that much hope lol. 

 

Well thats my rant over! Was just wondering if others have had similar issues with local big businesses wrecking their enjoyment of such a fascinating pastime? Also if anyone is from a high LP area do they have any tips/advice on any filters etc that may help my situation? Also I'll post a pic here to show the extent one selfish businesses effect on our local night sky. 

That picture is wild! Never seen anything like that before. 😵

[wulfrun]

The bit I don't get is why they consider the inevitable cost of this to be acceptable. If they stopped wasting the light upwards and directed it downwards they'd save money. Even overlooking the astro & environmental aspects, surely it's commercial sense anyway?

I hope it gets sorted, looks suspiciously like gross stupidity.

[vlaiv]

Something about it reminds me of ...

[Peteo1]

Hi broadymike I'm in ramsgate so I feel your pain, viewing is fine over ramsgate and sea but turn towards manston its a no go very annoying!!!

[Clarkey]

I can only image to the south from my garden which is unfortunate. Like the original post I am officially B5-6 but in reality due to the direct LP it is probably higher. Although there is a normal background lighting, there is a local business who feel the need to light up the whole sky (involves hitting golf balls). Sometimes it appears that golfers play all night!!

[Peteo1]

Yeah one of those in manston aswell lol very inconsiderant

[Broadymike]

2 hours ago, jjosefsen said:

That picture is wild! Never seen anything like that before. 😵

Like I said apparently it's the 2nd worst LP site in the country.  I think the pics show that quite well. 

[Broadymike]

2 hours ago, Peteo1 said:

Yeah one of those in manston aswell lol very 

Thanet earth is the site in Manston. Thanet is made up of several towns/villages.  The only upside for me is that from where I am its in the south west which is where just about the worst direction for obstructions like trees and buildings. I live on the clifftop so get uninterrupted views over the channel so anything south east to the north isn't quite so bad. 

 

The bit that gets me is they do stargazing nights at Monkton nature reserve which is less than a mile from thanet earth. I can't see anyone seeing anything much at all from there.  

 

Sorry just seen that your reply was about the driving range not thanet earth lol. I spose at least the driving range is so close to thanet earth that its keeping the issue in the same area. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Broadymike