Help with guiding set up

[Lommyb]

Hi all, first post, so I apologise if this has been posted elsewhere and I have not seen it, or if I have posted this incorrectly in the wrong place and/way.

So, I need some help with my set up. I have been struggling to get this system working as I can’t find a lot of information on the kit set I have.

Using an IExos PMC-Eight-100 mount, a Canon EOS Rebel T3i camera, Tamron AF 70-300mm lens, SVBony compact 30mm guide scope and a T7C (ZWO asi120 copy) guide camera.

From what I gather I need to polar align the mount, then 3 star align it via the app, then connect my T7C to PHD2 and star select to guide. The issue comes that I can’t seem to get anything to show up in PHD2, just a grey screen. It is up to date version and the camera displays a nice image in SharpCap.

So my questions are; 

Do I have sufficient equipment for things like Orion Nebula, Horse head and Pleiades for example?

Have I got the right steps to make it work as it should?

Why is PHD2 not giving any image?

Is there an easier way to get this to guide that I am not aware of? 

[PeterCPC]

For PHD to work you either need a connected ST4 cable or use pulse guiding. I am not familiar with the mount but does it have a guide port?

Now does PHD connect to the mount and camera ok. If so it could be either a focus or exposure issue. If the camera works with Sharpcap with the guidescope then I would suggest the exposure is the problem. Try 2 secs exposures.

Edited January 1, 2022 by PeterCPC

[Lommyb]

I have the camera connected to the mount and the laptop, so the camera is the middle step so to speak. Does the laptop need to be the middle step? So connected to to mount and the camera? Yes the mount has a guide port. PHD won’t connect to any of the Ascom selections so have it connected to the “on camera” setting. I can’t seem to get Ascom to work either, keeps telling me it has hit a fatal issue and won’t start.

[Lommyb]

I did manage to get an image to appear on PHD2 since posting this, but it was very poor compared to Sharpcap

[bruno]

I found that before i do any polar alignment i would open sharpcap & get an image /focus with my guide camera, then do a polar align for the mount (your not messing about trying to focus when already aligned).

connect the ST4 cable to the camera & mount, guide cam should already be connected to l/top.

Connect camera to L/top  and power supply ( you can get a dummy battery that plugs into the mains, ebay) you don't have to connect camera  to L/top if just using the SD card noticed a intervelometer  sat on the mount

connect to PHD & connect Guide cam & mount & i think it's Aux On mount. that should get it going.

 

 

[Lommyb]

6 minutes ago, bruno said:

I found that before i do any polar alignment i would open sharpcap & get an image /focus with my guide camera, then do a polar align for the mount (your not messing about trying to focus when already aligned).

connect the ST4 cable to the camera & mount, guide cam should already be connected to l/top.

Connect camera to L/top  and power supply ( you can get a dummy battery that plugs into the mains, ebay) you don't have to connect camera  to L/top if just using the SD card noticed a intervelometer  sat on the mount

connect to PHD & connect Guide cam & mount & i think it's Aux On mount. that should get it going.

 

 

Makes sense to focus the image before polar aligning to be fair. Ye the intervalometer for the dslr, I don’t connect that to laptop. 

[Budgie1]

If you're using the ST4 cable between the guide camera and the mount, then the setting in PHD2 for the mount is "On Camera" from the mount drop down menu.

The intervalometer is connected to the DSLR, not the laptop. Only the USB cable from the guide camera is connected to the laptop in you configuration.

[Lommyb]

21 minutes ago, Budgie1 said:

If you're using the ST4 cable between the guide camera and the mount, then the setting in PHD2 for the mount is "On Camera" from the mount drop down menu.

The intervalometer is connected to the DSLR, not the laptop. Only the USB cable from the guide camera is connected to the laptop in you configuration.

So should I not be worrying about Ascom? Using the “On Camera” selection I don’t need Ascom…am I right? 

[Budgie1]

1 hour ago, Lommyb said:

So should I not be worrying about Ascom? Using the “On Camera” selection I don’t need Ascom…am I right? 

It should work fine without ASCOM because the mount is being controlled via the ST4 cable. So, PHD2 sends the corrections to the camera and then to the mount.

If you want to take imaging further, adding the likes of Astro Photography Tool (APT) for  imaging, then it's best to have ASCOM installed because it's what links all the software together.

[Lommyb]

25 minutes ago, Budgie1 said:

It should work fine without ASCOM because the mount is being controlled via the ST4 cable. So, PHD2 sends the corrections to the camera and then to the mount.

If you want to take imaging further, adding the likes of Astro Photography Tool (APT) for  imaging, then it's best to have ASCOM installed because it's what links all the software together.

Ok cool thank you. I shall give this another go when I next have clear skies…whenever that may be! 
I learn better by being hands on and being shown it all…which has been a definite no go over the last 2 years with this hobby 🙄

[PeterCPC]

14 hours ago, Lommyb said:

I did manage to get an image to appear on PHD2 since posting this, but it was very poor compared to Sharpcap

As in what? Out of focus, too dark, too grey... A picture would help.

[malc-c]

Looking at the specs that's quite a nice mount for £390.

Quote

Controlled by the class leading PMC-Eight wireless control system, this mount doesn't require a handset and will run off any modern Android device, Apple iPads (running iOS12+), or Windows 10 tablets and computers. In addition to these packages, the PMC-8 is also fully ASCOM compliant and will connect to any ASCOM Standards Compliant POTH Client from Explore Scientific (either wired or wireless) to work with virtually any sky software that supports ASCOM. The Explore Stars control app can be downloaded from Android, Apple and Windows app stores and is a very intuitive piece of software, with the ability to use your device's GPS signal to download location and time/date data - no more entering info by hand. Explore Stars allows for simple setup with the click of a button. The PMC-Eight hardware is based around 8 separate CPUs - neatly apportioning different control instructions and calculations to each processor. This makes for very smooth control functionality and very accurate tracking and encoder responses. from a tracking and slewing point of view, the mount is very quiet, which users will doubtlessly appreciate when the using mount late at night, especially in more heavily populated areas.

So the mount has ASCOM compliant software for control, so rather than use ST4 method of guiding, you could use the software  on a PC  for driving the mount, and then with the camera connected via USB use any planetarium software, and PHD2 to use the ASCOM compliant driver for your camera.  

[Lommyb]

On 02/01/2022 at 07:45, PeterCPC said:

As in what? Out of focus, too dark, too grey... A picture would help.

I will get an image next time i have them set up. It’s like a very out of focus grey image, Sharpcap gives a nice coloured image that is easy to focus.

[Lommyb]

21 hours ago, malc-c said:

Looking at the specs that's quite a nice mount for £390.

So the mount has ASCOM compliant software for control, so rather than use ST4 method of guiding, you could use the software  on a PC  for driving the mount, and then with the camera connected via USB use any planetarium software, and PHD2 to use the ASCOM compliant driver for your camera.  

Ye i read quite a few reviews on the mount and it seemed a good buy. 
Ok…so which Ascom drivers do i need? I can’t seem to get information as to what programs i need to download…and the Ascom website sends me to the explore scientific website, which in turn i can finally get to download the relevant drivers and then I can’t get Ascom to run at all. Every time i click on Ascom on my laptop it wants to reinstall it all rather than opening any sort of programme. I can’t find a tutorial anywhere for my mount that explains how to do all of this.

[PeterCPC]

35 minutes ago, Lommyb said:

I will get an image next time i have them set up. It’s like a very out of focus grey image, Sharpcap gives a nice coloured image that is easy to focus.

Are you using the same scope (guidescope) with Sharpcap when it works? If so, once focused it should be in focus in PHD.

[PeterCPC]

Does this help?

 

[malc-c]

38 minutes ago, Lommyb said:

Ye i read quite a few reviews on the mount and it seemed a good buy. 
Ok…so which Ascom drivers do i need? I can’t seem to get information as to what programs i need to download…and the Ascom website sends me to the explore scientific website, which in turn i can finally get to download the relevant drivers and then I can’t get Ascom to run at all. Every time i click on Ascom on my laptop it wants to reinstall it all rather than opening any sort of programme. I can’t find a tutorial anywhere for my mount that explains how to do all of this.

OK let me try and explain as I'm (no offence intended ) guessing you're not really PC / Tech savvy ?

ASCOM isn't a program in the same sense that Word or Excel is, it can be thought of as a service that runs in the background.  It's job is to connect to other applications like PHD, a planetarium program, and whatever method of scope control or camera control is used.  Think of ASCOM being like an old telephone exchange where you called the operator to speak to the bank and the operator made the connection so you could communicate with the bank manager.  In order to make all those connections everyone needs to be using the same standards and protocols that have been formulated by ASCOM, hence the term ASCOM compliant.  Some devices will have an ASCOM driver that runs unseen when installed, whilst others look like programs, but again, the ASCOM part is running in the background.

A quick google for your mount found this website  which seems to have links to all the drivers, applications and updated firmware for your mount and the system used to control it.  Now with Peter's link to the video you should be able to get things started 

[Lommyb]

1 hour ago, PeterCPC said:

Are you using the same scope (guidescope) with Sharpcap when it works? If so, once focused it should be in focus in PHD.

Yes using exactly the same camera and guide scope and isn’t the same focus between the two.

The video (in theory) should help…however the links don’t work as they do in the video, so guessing things have changed since the video was uploaded.

[PeterCPC]

2 minutes ago, Lommyb said:

Yes using exactly the same camera and guide scope and isn’t the same focus between the two.

The video (in theory) should help…however the links don’t work as they do in the video, so guessing things have changed since the video was uploaded.

I can't get my head around this. If you are using the same camera and scope for both applications then the focus should not change.

[Lommyb]

1 hour ago, malc-c said:

OK let me try and explain as I'm (no offence intended ) guessing you're not really PC / Tech savvy ?

ASCOM isn't a program in the same sense that Word or Excel is, it can be thought of as a service that runs in the background.  It's job is to connect to other applications like PHD, a planetarium program, and whatever method of scope control or camera control is used.  Think of ASCOM being like an old telephone exchange where you called the operator to speak to the bank and the operator made the connection so you could communicate with the bank manager.  In order to make all those connections everyone needs to be using the same standards and protocols that have been formulated by ASCOM, hence the term ASCOM compliant.  Some devices will have an ASCOM driver that runs unseen when installed, whilst others look like programs, but again, the ASCOM part is running in the background.

A quick google for your mount found this website  which seems to have links to all the drivers, applications and updated firmware for your mount and the system used to control it.  Now with Peter's link to the video you should be able to get things started 

No offence taken at all. I thought i was ok (although not good) with tech…but i am struggling with this.

The link you supplied is the site i have been trying to use, however the Ascom drivers won’t download from it for me. No matter how often i click the link nothing happens at all. The video in Peters comment is the video i have used a few times, but the links etc are not the same as the video, so guessing things have changed since the video was uploaded.

I appreciate the help everyone is trying to supply. Just seems like there isn’t a lot of user information supplied for this mount…or for a total tech idiot like myself lol.

[Lommyb]

Just now, PeterCPC said:

I can't get my head around this. If you are using the same camera and scope for both applications then the focus should not change.

I know, that was what i thought too. It’s almost as if in PHD2 the camera chip is far more sensitive. I can only see the poor image on PHD2 by using a pinhole method, and even then it is black and white. Whereas Sharpcap is colour and does not need the pinhole method to display an image.

[Lommyb]

Getting this when trying to use ASCOM device hub

[michael8554]

3 hours ago, Lommyb said:

I will get an image next time i have them set up. It’s like a very out of focus grey image, Sharpcap gives a nice coloured image that is easy to focus.

SharpCap is probably using the camera in video mode, whereas PHD2 uses the camera in Long Exposure mode.

And the PHD2 display isn't optimised for imaging, it only needs to show whether there are any useable stars, in mono only.

Michael

[Lommyb]

9 minutes ago, michael8554 said:

SharpCap is probably using the camera in video mode, whereas PHD2 uses the camera in Long Exposure mode.

And the PHD2 display isn't optimised for imaging, it only needs to show whether there are any useable stars, in mono only.

Michael

That makes sense. Long exposure will give a fuzzy image if there is slight movement (as I didn’t have it mounted at that point due to testing it all), mono will give the black and white image. So ye that makes sense. Thank you

[malc-c]

2 hours ago, Lommyb said:

however the Ascom drivers won’t download from it for me. No matter how often i click the link nothing happens at all.

Strange, I get the same thing, and no error as if the page was missing - might need to contact them via their chat or support email to notify them all the links are down...