StarAid Revolution B - review

[stevebb]

I have been wanting to write a review on StarAid Revision B for a long time because there is almost nothing out there at present. But it has been a rollercoaster of a journey so far for reasons I will get on to.

Firstly, I understand this autoguiding solution is not for everyone. It is arguably more expensive and some would "rightly" say they are more than happy using their current setup up with PHD or using a similar solution and I have absolutely no reason to challenge this. For me, I wanted a solution that is literally "plug n play", no additional computer interface to drive it (if I didn't want it), something that once powered up will begin calibration and tracking immediately completely "hands off" and moving from object to object will pick up to 20 stars and begin tracking again.

This is not a post to encourage the "anti brigade" or the "my solution is better than yours", this is just the experience that I have personally experienced thus far.

Above is a screenshot taken from their website. The device itself comprises a Sony IMX290LL monochrome STARVIS CMOS with a QE (75%) and pixel size of 2.9µm. It is powered by a 5 volt USB-C jack either in the device itself (requiring a powered USB for interaction with the computer together with data forwarding) or a 5 volt power bank direct to the splitter for control and either controlled over the WiFi network or just let it run standalone. 

My own setup is a direct USB port connection from a pc in the observatory and then controlled remotely from the house 30m away with using Windows 10 Professional and an Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) session. I have experienced zero issues whatsoever and the connection has always remained stable and it has performed flawlessly. The splitter is used for ST4 connection to the mount. While this is literally plug & play, you can follow what is happening either by looking at the led colours on the back of the device (these can be reduced in intensity and even turned off completely) or connect to a phone/tablet or pc.  

Connecting to the device is simple as it generates it's own WiFi network. I found it easy to connect directly through a browser while still able to access the internet as it is fully integrated onto my network.

First thing you will see once connected is the menu.

At the bottom left, the GUIDE button is on by default and it will automatically begin calibration and guiding unless you hit STOP.

At the very top left of the screen are 3 horizontal orange bars, selecting this will bring up the setup screen as below ...

Fairly self explanatory but there are some parts of this that are extremely important and NOT in the manual. Select SETTINGS


 

Under SETTINGS you must add your location (within 20km ..... if you don't get within 20km then you WILL experience problems with Sky Recogntion) and of course date/time which "should" provide the device with the necessary information to establish your aperture of view. One of the massive head scratching moments I had was initially using a guide scope with a 240mm focal length. The focal length was too great (at 240mm) meaning a very small field of view too small and usually less than a dozen stars in view. Reading the manual it suggested a guide scope with an ideal of around 120mm. I replaced the guide scope with a 120mm and lo and behold, the field of view did not change and appeared to be fixed at 240mm. I contacted Staraid support and it transpires, thanks to Hendrick (the designer) following a recent Q&A session through a Zoom Webinar that StarAid automatically "determines" what guide scope focal length you are using and commits that to memory. Selecting "Optics" and entering 120mm vice 240mm simply does not work !!  The solution however .... remove the entry completely leaving the field blank. Restart the device and it will automatically detect and establish the correct focal length. Happy days and I can confirm this was well and truly cracked !!!  ps if Hendrick/Christian are reading this then please add comments to the user manual.

Back on the Main menu page you have a whole list of other options. "Liveview" is excellent making it an absolute breeze to adjust focus .... I did hear a suggestion to slightly defocus to help with "Sky Recognition" as the stars appear bigger. I have not found that to be the case and I have also left the camera gain/gamma/exposure set to AUTO. It just works !!!

"ObjectGuiding" is another feature where it will automatically find and centre on currently 33 different comets. This is outstanding, as it will actually track the comets movement so you will capture the comet and without any star trailing ...

Hendrick did mention on a previous Webinar that he had been asked about "ISS" tracking but acknowledged that a lot of mounts would not be able to track at this speed and therefore is an option he has not progressed. There are also options for Polar Alignment and Telescope alignment but to get to this stage you will firstly need an accurate "Sky Recognition". Initially, I struggled to get the Sky Recognition to work, it failed every single time even pointing at various locations in the sky. I tried to defocus/refocus the StarAid, gone from auto gain settings to manual, rotated the StarAid to match the correct orientation of the night sky and still no success even though there are over 50 stars in view. It was only after today's webinar when the magic words were spoken by Hendrik. Your home location must be accurate to within 20km maximum. Thankfully, Filey UK was listed which is about 2km away. Selecting this and everything is now spot on.  

However, how does the autoguiding perform ?

At switch on, the StarAid automatically defaults to calibration as so ....

It will attempt to firstly find enough stars (set at 20 max) and calibrate each axis before guiding commences on "multiple stars". This takes around 30 seconds to approx 1 minute depending on seeing conditions and worked well even close to a 70% moon ...

Well, it looks good in theory, but how does it work in practice and even more so on a main telescope with a relatively long focal length ?

This is a 600 second (iso1600) raw capture of M1 (Crab Nebula) taken last night using a SkyWatcher Equinox ED120 (900mm) and an astro modified Canon 6D as the imaging device ...

This image is absolutely untouched and I am extremely happy with the star shapes. To be honest, this is the very first time I have taken an exposure at this length (10 minutes).

I also attempted a lengthy capture of the horsehead nebula very close to the horizon (using two cameras simultaneously), after a 300 second capture on my Canon 60D it was again pin sharp but it did experience a hiccup at the 8 minute mark on the second camera. Reasons unknown but could very well have been a few clouds coming by or the mount itself bumping slightly.

So, what are my thoughts ....

Am I happy ?  Absolutely delighted and the simplicity of how it works. It really is "setup and go". This would make life so much easier for those having portable setups out in the field. The functionality is brilliant and it truly is plug & play. One point was mentioned in the webinar which I found interesting. When attempting a polar alignment, absolutely perfect is not required. It is actually better to leave a "little error" because the tracking at 5 corrections per second provides the mount with something to work on and will make for smoother guiding eliminating any "dead spots" / potential pauses in the tracking.

The bad news, I will mention this briefly but recent events have TOTALLY solved this. A lot of users have opened trouble tickets and are still awaiting results even after a year. Personally, I think Hendrick and his small team have been absolutely inundated and have struggled to keep up. This is understandable especially in these difficult times. However, Christian Sasse has started running webinars with Hendrick over Zoom with an opportunity to raise questions which are answered at the end of the session. This has been an absolute game changer and it works perfectly.  

I have heard some comments from astro enthusiasts stating that StarAid is still in "beta". A little unfair as it is much more advanced than that but there are complexities involved that the manual absolutely does not go into and it does perhaps reveal the need for other users to share any problems they might have encountered and the solutions they discovered in resolving them. It desperately needs a "user base" so we might assist the developers best we can. Perhaps a forum to capture Q&A that we can follow. I will try and document any problems I find with a potential solution to help others on the forums.

Would I buy this again knowing the challenges I was going to encounter - probably yes. As StarAid autonomously runs in the background this will be ideal for my STEM presentations as it is one less window I need to enlarge on the screen. But the capabilities don't just stop there !

One thing I must mention, this is not "yet" a GoTo solution. While the device itself performs plate solving through Sky Recognition and once recognised will provide true coordinates, that solution must be entered manually into EqMod or easier ... just nudge the mount controls. This is something that is being looked into though. My own solution will be to have the guide scope and main telescope in absolute perfect alignment which would hopefully mean any pointing accuracy adjustments would be minor or even unnecessary.

These are just a few musings especially following last night which was a big breakthrough for me following the StarAid Webinar a few days ago. 

There is also a DSLR "Image Capture" function on the Rev B but I use BYEos as I use multiple cameras and I thoroughly enjoy BYEos.

One thing that did come out of todays Webinar was Hendrick is testing a new software patch that will allow you the StarAid to connect to two WiFi networks at the same time. ie direct connect to the StarAid device itself  (from either pc/tablet/phone) and a second connection to the internet. Now this confused me because I already have this in my setup as I can remotely control the StarAid over a Remote Desktop session.

I have only written this guide to try and help others who may be looking for a users experience on StarAid, what it can do well and things to look out for. I am absolutely NOT stating this is the best thing since sliced bread and I have been honest and impartial in my own findings thus far. I do hope to update this topic once I have had a better play with Sky Recognition, Plate Solving and Polar Alignment.

Best wishes everyone and please keep safe.

Steve
ps my setup below

Edited January 29, 2022 by stevebb
corrected grammar mistakes *sigh*

[Shimrod]

On 26/12/2021 at 13:20, stevebb said:

I have been wanting to write a review on StarAid Revision B for a long time because there is almost nothing out there at present. But it has been a rollercoaster of a journey so far for reasons I will get on to.

Firstly, I understand this autoguiding solution is not for everyone. It is arguably more expensive and some would "rightly" say they are more than happy using their current setup up with PHD or using a similar solution and I have absolutely no reason to challenge this. For me, I wanted a solution that is literally "plug n play", no additional computer interface to drive it (if I didn't want it), something that once powered up will begin calibration and tracking immediately completely "hands off" and moving from object to object will pick up to 20 stars and begin tracking again.

This is not a post to encourage the "anti brigade" or the "my solution is better than yours", this is just the experience that I have personally experienced thus far.
 

Thanks for the comprehensive write-up. I have looked at the Staraid a few times and it looks like a useful device - its a little expensive to buy as an addition to what I already have, but it only rolls into one three devices I have already bought to do the same functions (Starsense, iPolar and guide camera). I do like the idea of having something that can do polar alignment, guiding and plate-solving without the need for a laptop. Anything to get set up quicker is a real bonus for me.

Do you use the sky recognition function and how do you find it? Does it just give region of the sky you are pointing at, or can you ask it to centre the mount on an object?

[TRob]

Thank you stevebb for starting this topic. Interesting to read that there have been webinars. I did not see any announcements on their webpage. How can we join and is there a schedule when the next one will be?

I have recently bought StarAid Revision B attached to a QHY miniGuideScope. Since I did not want to carry a laptop with me I found  StarAid Revision B quite interesting because it is capable to guide my telescope and also control my camera.  

After and while setting it up I ran into a number of problems. Some are probably due to user errors, others to the rather rudimentary documentation  and others due to the StarAid. There is a German documentation which is a lot better than the original one on https://www.baader-planetarium.com/de/downloads/dl/file/id/1716/product/4672/staraid_revolution_rev_b_quick_start_guide.pdf .

 

During the setup and a dryrun outside when I had a few hours of clear sky I ran into the following problems:

- the USB cable that comes with it does not deliver power when attached to the splitter.  I had to use a different cable. Thinking it must be a problem with the splitter rather than the cable it took a long time until i tried another cable out of desperation .

- Settings

-- some settings (Location, Focal Length of guiding optic) are always displayed

-- some settings (Optics, Camera, ...) are only displayed while some value is entered.

-- some settings in Image Capture (Camera Port Pre-Activation, Camera Port Activation) are only marked if both Tip and Ring have been selected for both entries

-- Pre-activation time does not seem to have any effect on the camera

- Plate Solving aka Sky Recognition does not seem to work. I took quite a few live captures and uploaded the fits files to astrometry.net in order to check whether this is a general problem. http://nova.astrometry.net/user_images/5510272#annotated shows one example. To speed things up a little bit all the uploaded fits files have negative parity. Checking positive parity on astrometry.net  will fail.

- it is unclear, to me at least, which settings are actually stored but not displayed.  As stevebb wrote guiding scope focal length should be left empty. As probably any user would do I would select my scope from the drop down list which then automatically fills in the guiding scope focal length. Good thing I had only one so it worked from the start.

I do still struggle with the camera settings. Rather than having Live View on when taking series I would prefer to use MirrorUp on my Nikon. On the first press of the shutter the mirror moves up and at the second press exposure  starts. Since StarAid settings in Image Capture let me state Pre-Activation, Pre-Activation time and Activation I thought that this would solve my problem but it does not. Shooting pics in Live View is no problem.  The question is now what is the reasoning behind Camera Port Pre-Activation and Camera Port Activation? In which cases do I need to activate what? Right now I have both Tip and Ring activated for both. Any other combination and time did not work properly.

 

I am currently using the latest firmware version 1.9.2 . At one time I thought that maybe I a user reset (documented in https://bsentient.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/2/article/862846977 ) might solve my issues. Unfortunately the update procedure then tells me that the image is invalid or corrupt. Downloading it several more times using different operating systems did not change it so either the supplied image is corrupt from the start or it does not work with 1.9.2

So far, none of my open cases have been answered.

 

Once the weather gets better again I will give guiding a try which was not possible yet.

As it looks now I can work around some of the issues so it is not a big problem. Plate Solving would be nice but I can live with not having that possibility at the moment. On the other hand it would be nice if the current quirks could be fixed.

[TRob]

19 hours ago, TRob said:

How can we join and is there a schedule when the next one will be?

Info about the next webinar taken from https://www.itelescope.net/webinar:

StarAid - The Next Generation Autoguider - Part 2

Description

This is part 2 of StarAid- you can use the autoguider in your house through a window! Hendrik, the developer of StarAid, will discuss polar alignment and focal lengths which have some common myths. Come and join the discussion

Time

Jan 29, 2022 06:00 PM in Universal Time UTC

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Vw1uFttKQCu6lCX_3jjnJw

 

A recording of the first webinar can be seen on https://t.co/qrOwzIrJex

Edited January 8, 2022 by TRob
Added a link to the first StarAid webinar

[TRob]

On 07/01/2022 at 14:40, TRob said:

- some settings (Location, Focal Length of guiding optic) are always displayed

- Plate Solving aka Sky Recognition does not seem to work.

Gave Sky Recognition another try tonight while being rather overcast.

To make a long story short. Sky Recognition / Plate Solving works. The trick is leaving the focal length field of the guide scope empty. This was also mentioned in the first webinar with Hendrik. Would have been nice, though if that info had a place in the manual. StarAid then determines the focal length automatically.  StarAidsdetermined fl was 6 mm or 4.6% smaller than what the specs say.

Sky recognition was actually really fast even under the conditions I had today. The solution corresponds pretty well with what astrometry.net thinks.

Off to guiding at some other day with clear skies and no rain ...

[stevebb]

On 31/12/2021 at 17:04, Shimrod said:

Thanks for the comprehensive write-up. I have looked at the Staraid a few times and it looks like a useful device - its a little expensive to buy as an addition to what I already have, but it only rolls into one three devices I have already bought to do the same functions (Starsense, iPolar and guide camera). I do like the idea of having something that can do polar alignment, guiding and plate-solving without the need for a laptop. Anything to get set up quicker is a real bonus for me.

Do you use the sky recognition function and how do you find it? Does it just give region of the sky you are pointing at, or can you ask it to centre the mount on an object?

Good question and sadly, I still have not got the Sky Recognition to work yet after dozens of attempts. As I am typing this I am watching the StarAid webinar and raised this issue and have been asked to email Hendrick directly !!

[stevebb]

On 09/01/2022 at 17:39, TRob said:

Gave Sky Recognition another try tonight while being rather overcast.

To make a long story short. Sky Recognition / Plate Solving works. The trick is leaving the focal length field of the guide scope empty. This was also mentioned in the first webinar with Hendrik. Would have been nice, though if that info had a place in the manual. StarAid then determines the focal length automatically.  StarAidsdetermined fl was 6 mm or 4.6% smaller than what the specs say.

Sky recognition was actually really fast even under the conditions I had today. The solution corresponds pretty well with what astrometry.net thinks.

Off to guiding at some other day with clear skies and no rain ...

Hi Trob,

Many thanks indeed for your comments and it is super to meet another user on the forums 

Thank you also for the tip off of this evenings webinar .... I would have missed it completely as I did not get notifications from SGL for some reason.  Glad you got the Sky Recognition working, I'm still struggling with this even using a 120mm guidescope and leaving the field blank (allowing autorecognition). If you were following the webinar just now you would have observed that my question on this was the first one read.

Also, I have been using StarAid connected to my observatory laptop and then wirelessly controlled remotely from the house. The tracking is absolutely fantastic but I do need to sort out the Sky Recognition.

Regarding powering the StarAid, I used a powered USB hub and provide power directly to the camera and "not" to the splitter. Are you doing it this way or are you powering the splitter directly ?

My apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

Steve

{edit: Sky Recognition sorted ... user error .... I had "Scarborough" selected as my location and once I changed it to "Filey" I had a perfect solve - I will edit my review accordingly}

Edited January 29, 2022 by stevebb
update

[TRob]

Hi Steve,

 

yes it is great to meet somebody who has also made some experience using StarAid

Sorry for my late reply as well. Looks like I deactivated the "follow topic" slider thus not following this topic. As it is often the case, the problem sat  in front of the computer ...

 

Glad you managed to got Sky Recognition working now.  Your post and the webcast replay helped me get it going.

I received my StarAid in the beginning of January but the weather and my initial problems prevented me from testing it any further. Apart from a single night when there was a very short opening it has either been raining or it was completely overcast. At least I was able to get Sky Recognition working. Even in a rather sub-optimal condition. I was amazed how fast it was.

I still do not understand why the default USB cable  is not able to power StarAid through the splitter. Apart from a  powered USB hub I have used several different power banks, power tanks and laptops. Powering StarAid by attaching the same cable directly works fine. Since I have to carry my telescope outside I would not want to attach another cable to StarAid directly.  I am sure at some point in time I will trip over it or get entangled one way or the other. Murphy always wins This was actually the reason why I got myself a magnetic USB cable (ZIIXII) that will detach itself easily without possibly causing any damage. It was only then that I noticed that it works either directly attached or through the splitter.

A short while ago Hendrik answered a support call of mine regarding the settings menu. You might have noticed that some of the settings (camera, telescope and some others if I remember correctly) are empty after entering the settings menu again. This will be fixed in the next firmware version.

The link to download the user reset file has been corrected and does work now .

 

Although I can control my camera and have found a setting that works I am still struggling with the settings. So far, I could not find any documentation explaining the options although I think I know what they are supposed to do. Only problem is they have a different opinion.

  In order to let the system settle I could either take pictures while the camera is in Live View mode or make the camera get the mirror out of the way (Mup) first, wait for x seconds, take a picture, close the shutter and then lower the mirror again. Not sure which version will be better and/or saves more power.  Currently only the Live View mode works without problems.

 

I would also love to be able to attach StarAid to my network or to a portable wifi router.  This would save me from having to use two different wireless networks depending on whether I want to control/check/... StarAid or my telescope's wifi dongle.  You probably noticed in the webcast that Hendrik is a bit reluctant making this feature available although he uses this exact configuration. He seems to be concerned that people forget their credentials. On the other hand StarAid has a reset button that might be used to also reset the wifi configuration to its default.

 

According to the weather forecast it is supposed to get better sometime next week. Hopefully I will have the opportunity to conduct some tests tracking, taking pictures and/or video shots,  polar aligning, ...

 

Clear skies

Rob

 

 

[melsky]

Good review Steve, I've had a Staraid Revolution B for a while now and I'm completely delighted with it. I've always used it with a 130mm guidescope so have had no issues with guiding or polar aligning with it. I can move it from mount to mount and get accurate alignment in about 2-3 minutes just using my iPad, it works fantastically on my AstroTrac 360. 

I generally use it for widefield imaging attached is an example shot with my Atik One 6 and WO Redcat51 mounted on a CEM40, this is a stack of five frames each one being a twenty minute exposure, I think that shows how good it guides.