First Telescope Advice and Recommendations

[Saggy]

8 minutes ago, DhamR said:

The ST80 and its tripod would collapse to a long thin thing.  Whereas the Heritages are a little cubiod, they take up more floor space (when the ST80s tripod isn't open) but will tuck away in their box rather than stand up like an umbrella.

When I was looking at them, the main differences that made my mind up are:

1) Dobs capture more light so see dimmer things

2) Refractors (like the ST80) are made using lenses which bend light like a prism does, so you see purple fringes and green fringes on high-contrast things (i.e. bright moon vs dark sky behing). Dobs don't do this, as mirrors don't work like prisms.

THank you,

Well that's another smack head moment - I know prisms and refraction and basic light stuff. For some reason just didn't put that together with the word "refractor" used in the "refractor" telescope!! SO that's why you get the chromatic abberation thingy from and will assume this will make you loose definition of detail and edges etc in some cases. Although don't mind a bit of purple myself 😉

 

 

[DhamR]

I was into photography before this, so I was aware of CA as it was always an issue mentioned with lenses, particularly older ones.  Technically you're losing sharpness around the edges as they blur out across the spectrum.  Not having used a refractor since my toy one as a kid, I don't know how big a problem it is, but I used a cheap pair of binoculars whilst I was deciding what to buy and it did bother me.  Ultimately it was the idea of the big light-catching area of the scope that drew me to a dobsonian.  It's not a planetary scope, but there's a lot more stuff to see up there than the planets, and I figured the only reason people want to look at the planets is because they know them.  If my daughter and I can get to know the rest of the sky, then seeing that is just as big a draw as seeing something vaguely similar to the familiar planet shapes we know.

Honestly I think I've overspent for my needs right now with the 150p (particularly the motorised mount) however I got a bonus at work and spoilt myself.

The 150P catches 33% more light from its 2cm wider aperture, so will see the dimmer stuff better, but it's also bigger and more expensive.  You can apply that rule to every dob out there ad-infinitum, as someone else said, at some point you have to draw the line between cost-reward & need.

Edited December 17, 2021 by DhamR

[johninderby]

A low priced refractor like the ST80 will indeed have CA on the planets and moon. More expensive refractors (APO refractors) don’t suffer from CA but are way out of your budget. The ST80 is best suited to lower magnifications.

 

[Saggy]

11 minutes ago, DhamR said:

I was into photography before this, so I was aware of CA as it was always an issue mentioned with lenses, particularly older ones.  Technically you're losing sharpness around the edges as they blur out across the spectrum.  Not having used a refractor since my toy one as a kid, I don't know how big a problem it is, but I used a cheap pair of binoculars whilst I was deciding what to buy and it did bother me.  Ultimately it was the idea of the big light-catching area of the scope that drew me to a dobsonian.  It's not a planetary scope, but there's a lot more stuff to see up there than the planets, and I figured the only reason people want to look at the planets is because they know them.  If my daughter and I can get to know the rest of the sky, then seeing that is just as big a draw as seeing something vaguely similar to the familiar planet shapes we know.

Honestly I think I've overspent for my needs right now with the 150p (particularly the motorised mount) however I got a bonus at work and spoilt myself.

The 150P catches almost 50% more light from its 2cm wider aperture, so will see the dimmer stuff better, but it's also bigger and more expensive.  You can apply that rule to every dob out there ad-infinitum, as someone else said, at some point you have to draw the line between cost-reward & need.

Thank you

Yes I suppose with my eye sight, the less blurry the better thinking about it! And yes, it's the other stuff out there that seems more fascinating although do want a good look at the moon plus my daughter loves the moon and her name is the hypothesized ancient planet that theoretically crashed into earth to make the moon -but there's only so much for you to see there 😄 My daughter is also particularly obsessed with the more unknown space and galaxies and nebulas etc rather than the planets.

I'll stick with the 130 for now as don't know whether we'll even get into the hobby too much plus I already took an ereader off her list to increase my budget although my dad has decided to get her this now instead so I suppose all works out well!

 

[Saggy]

2 minutes ago, johninderby said:

A low priced refractor like the ST80 will indeed have CA on the planets and moon. More expensive refractors (APO refractors) don’t suffer from CA but are way out of your budget. The ST80 is best suited to lower magnifications.

 

THanks - useful to know for later. Ah so just on the closer stuff.

[Saggy]

It's ordered........ 🥳🥳🥳🥳

THanks to you all again. I'm sure you'll see me on here before long.

Now, for the rest of my Xmas shopping............. 😉

[johninderby]

Great stuff. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

And plenty of help and advice here when you start using your new scope. 🙂

Edited December 17, 2021 by johninderby

[Saggy]

On 12/12/2021 at 02:50, neil phillips said:

A achromatic refractor at F7 for the moon and planets will be no where near as nice as the Capricorn at F 12.8 Not even close. Like  miles  apart. Night and day worse 

If not messing about with a mount is important.  A Newtonian reflector has collimation to learn. Which is likely even worse hassle. The F7 achromatic refractor will have a wider feild of view that is better for star clusters though you will pay for this with a generally worse set of optics at these price levels

So can see why its suggested. But its performance wont be great for lunar and planetary. the planets Mars and jupiter will be well placed in the summer

If you have to get a refractor and the Capricorn is out of the question because of the mount. I would try and get a 70 or 80mm refractor at F10. What ever mount you think suits you. At a price you can find

At least you have a chance at getting sharp optics. Any short focus achromatic refractor will have lots of false colour and blur too. I wouldnt touch one with a barge poll for the moon and planets when you have better well corrected optics out there at F10. Im off thats my thoughts. Good luck with what ever you get

All photos 70mm Capricorn F12.8 Warning do not look at the sun. blindness will occur without special filters

 

 

 

 

Oh and I meant to say beautiful pics. If my priority was the planets and moon, you would have perhaps swayed me x

[Saggy]

15 hours ago, johninderby said:

Information overload is rearing it’s ugly head. 😕

I think you need to go back to the beginning and redefine your needs. Pressing the reset button so to speak.🙂

OK to redefine your needs.

      New budget?  

      Ease of use?

      Do you WANT a traditional refractor or are you letting yourself be talked into something else?

      At the end of the day it’s your telescope (and your daughters) so you make the decision not well intentioned others.

I would suggest taking a look around FLOs site again and choose a few scopes you really like and forget cost for now. Once you’ve identified a few lets us know and then we can make suggestions of scopes that are in your  budget based on what you really like. 

 

And although everyone on here has been extremely helpful for different reasons - so many thanks to you as you really helped getting me out of a head swamp with this message and reset as suggested 🙂

 

[Saggy]

11 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Great stuff. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

And plenty of help and advice here when you start using your new scope. 🙂

I definitely will do x

I imagine by boxing day knowing my daughter 😄

 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

1 hour ago, Saggy said:

It's ordered........ 🥳🥳🥳🥳

THanks to you all again. I'm sure you'll see me on here before long.

Now, for the rest of my Xmas shopping............. 😉

Phew! With some practice & an extra inexpensive eyepiece or two, the Heritage will provide memorable lunar, planetary and deep sky views. Well done making your mind up Sarah! 😉 Have a good Christmas. 😁👍🤳

[jacobingonzo]

so we now all wait for the unboxing and finally its first light.

good luck and I hope you both get the bug and spend many amazing evenings in this magical hobby

[Mr Spock]

Enjoy your new scope 👍

[banjaxed]

For what it’s worth I think you have made the right decision, enjoy 👌

[cajen2]

Great news, Sarah, I hope you both enjoy it! Let us know how it goes ( if we ever lose these clouds, that is!).

[Orange Smartie]

I don't think I've ever been so excited about someone else's telescope purchase! Good luck and well done for doing so much homework. 

[Geoff Lister]

Excelent news Sarah.

I just hope that, by the time that your 'scope arrives, the guys at the Met Office will have sorted out the current cloud cover.

These are two of the "table tops" that I use with my 130p. It is important that the table top is not too wide - so you can lean over it from all directions.

These are the additions that I made to the base - just for convenience, and certainly not essential.

Geoff

[Saggy]

12 hours ago, Orange Smartie said:

I don't think I've ever been so excited about someone else's telescope purchase! Good luck and well done for doing so much homework. 

Rather dramatic wasn't I 🤣

[Saggy]

!

Edited December 18, 2021 by Saggy

[Saggy]

19 minutes ago, Saggy said:

 

 

Sorry technical issues and can't find a delete button lol!

 

Thanks Geoff

Okay, that's useful to know. My camping table is rectangular so wouldn't be able to get round it all. I was thinking I could use the freezer box as solid and unmoving but I think it's a little on the thin size in depth and assuming you need to have all three of those little semi circles around the edges on properly as there appears to be feet under these. Ideally I need something collapsible so will keep an eye out for something like this over the next month or so but won't look online as no way of telling how stable it is. II imagine something wooden would be best as many of the metal ones have all become a bit cheap and rickety in the last decade. Otherwise I suppose can pick up something like your green thing which when upside down, won't take up that much space. And my mum's partner is really good in carpentry so he can perhaps make me something.

I'm quite happy on the floor too for shorter opportunities or can use a already existing bench like at the campsite and so on.

Thanks 🙂

I'm assuming it doesn't have to be perfectly level?

Edited December 18, 2021 by Saggy

[wulfrun]

51 minutes ago, Saggy said:

I'm assuming it doesn't have to be perfectly level?

Approximately is good enough, it just needs to be level enough not to be unstable.

[Ande]

Well, that was a rollercoaster of a read 😂. Really happy for you having arrived at a decision. Looking forward to the next chapter 🙂. 

[DhamR]

Congrats on the order! I don't think you'll regret the choice. 

If you can I recommend getting it out and having a look over it before Christmas Day just in case of issues. Mine arrived damaged (sorted quickly by flo) and if I hadn't been an eager beaver it could have been disappointing on Christmas day.

Also, great name, will be spending tomorrow with friends who've got a 2yo called Thea. I hadn't drawn the similarity with Theia the Greek Godess let alone Theia the planet. Will share with them tomorrow! 

Edited December 18, 2021 by DhamR

[Saggy]

12 hours ago, DhamR said:

Congrats on the order! I don't think you'll regret the choice. 

If you can I recommend getting it out and having a look over it before Christmas Day just in case of issues. Mine arrived damaged (sorted quickly by flo) and if I hadn't been an eager beaver it could have been disappointing on Christmas day.

Also, great name, will be spending tomorrow with friends who've got a 2yo called Thea. I hadn't drawn the similarity with Theia the Greek Godess let alone Theia the planet. Will share with them tomorrow! 

Thank you. Yes, her name is Theia and wanted a name that meant something to do with nature or earth etc and didn't want to call her gaia or anything like that but then saw her daughter and always loved the moon myself lol 🙂 It's pronounced without the H though and I ummed and argghed for weeks over whether to spell it the original way or change it to what it sounds like (tayah/Tayuh) but didn't like it so went with the original. The registrar gave me false hope as took one look at the form and said it perfectly - not one time since though!!

It's turned up already by some form of flukey miracle as ordered it Friday night and shop said it couldn't possibly be until Tuesday as delivery peeps wouldn't pick up until Monday. but I delivered it to my mum's house as from Santa so couldn't afford to be delivered here as it's the largest present she's got and would have known immediately it's not from Santa on the day!! My mum's taken it out the box and sent me some photos but wouldn't really know if anything broken or not I suppose. I'll see if possible for me to check before Christmas but not sure if will actually get the opportunity. Thanks for the heads up! 🙂 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Saggy

[Saggy]

Hey guys

Just a quick question in case she wants to check it out quite quickly and we get the opportunity. I've looked at a couple of sites - a light pollution one and dark sky discovery site. It appears the local camping site I mentioned is smack bang on one of the few listed places on the dark sky discovery site for seeing the milky way etc with eyes which is great - I knew this would be a great place as the stars are spectacular there and often see orion, shooting stars and what not - never knew what milky way looked like to know. My Dad's house I mentioned on the cornish coast and my aunt's house in the moors also show up as great places without light pollution on the light pollution site so that's great too. Also my friend who lives on a private estate right on the top part of southdowns without street lights and all whom have ridiculously sized gardens between the houses you could almost go for a walk around also appears to come right bang on another location shown on dark sky discovery which you can see milky way and orion with normal eyes. So at least there's a few places we go to from time to time where it will be easy to get out and use.

However, is there another site or a more detailed site which might find a few more details of where other lessor opportunities are that aren't so great so we can pop there even just to see the moon and other closer objects? As mentioned there's too much light pollution around my house showing up as dark red on the light pollution map and barely ever see the one brightest star but there is a possibility of going to the far end of the beach near me, especially when the tide is low where we can get away from the light a bit - or on top of portsdown hill overlooking portsmouth perhaps but the light pollution site still says it's pretty bad in these specific areas and only one level lower than the red in most of portsmouth so not sure if still possible at all as don't know how it works or impacts views in that much detail? There's a couple of places on the beach we go for fireworks etc that is pretty dark - you can't really see each other much unless the moon is out and bright? How would this compare and what could I possibly see from here - is it worth trying as obviously I have no clue how much these things effect it. I'm assuming if you could see the moon, that's possibly always possible but how much better than your own eyes? I just thought best to avoid the first trip being a complete waste of time or disappointment if can see nothing much more than the eyes so though I'd better check with you guys 🙂 

Many thanks, Sarah

 

p.s Arggh - possibly not so much a quick question 😄

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Saggy