First Telescope Advice and Recommendations

[Adam J]

2 hours ago, Saggy said:

 I don't want to get something so cheap that she can't get much out of it. Additionally, I don't want to spend too much at this point, as I don't really know for sure whether she will really get hooked enough or into it passionately enough into the hobby to go to those lengths.

 

 

And thats the problem, a poor scope will ensure that she will not get hooked. A good scope will look at the moon on Christmas day and give a wow factor. A bad one will never come out of the box again. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Adam J

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

28 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Any thats the thing, you cant expect a telescope without compromise for under 100 pounds. You really need to spend twice that to get the full package. 

Adam 

True but the op just can't spend that much so we have to be realistic and compromise. The little she spends the better really. Binoculars may be the best option actually. There was a recent thread were one of the members was asking about binoculars for an 11yr old niece. I'll try to find it.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by ScouseSpaceCadet
Link added

[Saggy]

1 hour ago, TerraC said:

Comic video but worth a watch..  Can get some good views from those little dobsonians as long as you get the right one..

 

 

Okay so watched it through now - We're definitely on the nerdy side 😉

Very informative for me and entertaining. So he's saying the following linked one is his best bet but that the tripod is too unstable which I suppose negates the under £100 if I would need a better tripod on top so possibly better options for over £100? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0002CTZAC/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=gs2&linkId=df9810c6e73dd276d29768e83deecdad&creativeASIN=B0002CTZAC&tag=rorymultistor-21&creative=9325&camp=1789&th=1

 

I didn't quite catch what his previous recommendation was though - the one that shot up in price thereafter so he is no longer suggesting it. Was it celestron astromaster?

I suppose he didn't think too highly of the table top skywatcher ones but what can you actually see out of these? I'm assuming the moon and craters are visible enough but he couldn't see Jupiter well I think but can you see closer planets? Jupiter is very large though so possibly Mars and Venus too small even though they are closer? Can you see other things?

I do like the sound of grab and go and then point of the dobs especially until I know she has the patience for using something more fiddly.

Thanks again, so many choices still but at least I know what not to get and am feeling a little less lost thanks to you all.

 

[cajen2]

I think the limiting factor, certainly with the dobs, is the poor quality eyepieces that they come with. The Skywatcher 100p or 130p dobs have good parabolic mirrors, which means they're easily upgraded later with better- quality eyepieces if your child shows an interest. 

[Dark Vader]

Apologies if I missed an earlier budget post but this appeared on my Facebook market feed today. A tabletop dobsonian mount 130p.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/942321570024244/

 

[Saggy]

1 hour ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

All true, but if the mount is horrible then that puts people off. Also EQ mounts can be tricky for beginners.  Mr Biscuit had the benefit of his own suite of mounts to try his optics on, so not really a true test of a good beginners scope as it's the whole package that matters. Especially if finances are really tight.

If Sarah is able to pick up the 60mm f10 on an az mount and with eyepieces for £45 then hopefully that will be a nice and very cheap intro without skinting herself.

Thanks, can someone please explain the difference between an AZ and EQ mount?

I'm assuming it's the EQ mount of the first option I linked for £79 at Aldi (76/700 national geographic one with all the bits) is what truly writes it off as an option?

I'm not so sure about the friend of a friend. I have some friends whom I would instantly trust their friends but this particular friend has no idea of what the word quality or longevity means and regularly buys from places such as wish... so a friend of theirs... I wouldn't be quite so confident of the "as new" status from one of her acquaintances I have to admit. Also I have the additional concern that it would be coming from Santa rather than me so I can't write off second hand problems with it quite so easily as Santa wouldn't leave something broken, scratched etc perhaps.

[johninderby]

Have a watch of this vid. 

 

[Saggy]

1 hour ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

True but the op just can't spend that much so we have to be realistic and compromise. The little she spends the better really. Binoculars may be the best option actually. There was a recent thread were one of the members was asking about binoculars for an 11yr old niece. I'll try to find it.

 

Thank you.

I have cash as have savings but I have to be realistic/justified in spending it plus need to consider a few other presents and don't want to blow too much on just Christmas and such and it's so hard to invest that much in something that you have no idea if they will really take to it. If hobby/passion already established, it would be a different matter perhaps as you'd know you'd get your money's worth. What's the resale on telescopes percentage wise and how easy to offload as I suppose that could factor into my decision.

 

So we so far have:

The Sky watcher DObs although the better one of the two is over priced at the moment

The recommended one on the video but with bad mount which is likely to be a problem

A couple of Celestron ones - astromaster perhaps cheapest £99- what are the mounts like on these

And just starting on Binoculars 😄

So a few options to consider...hmmmm

Astro Biscuit also linked these as best buys:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0002CTZAC/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=gs2&linkId=df9810c6e73dd276d29768e83deecdad&creativeASIN=B0002CTZAC&tag=rorymultistor-21&creative=9325&camp=1789&th=1

https://business.currys.co.uk/catalogue/cameras-smart-tech/smart-tech/smart-toys-and-gadgets/meade-adventure-scope-80-refractor-telescope-cream/N231213W?cidp=Froogle&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzMGNBhCyARIsANpUkzNEbZjwsq-ouGAFtObqrmEi9kIicJZfq27L4unH-7G3U3ioNq9iBvsaAgdVEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Both just under £100 - how do these compare to what's been recommended already?

 I wouldn't instantly write binoculars off  but I suppose having watched the videos and learnt a bit more and knowing I have to compromise somewhere, I suppose my revised priorities would be 

 - definitely able to see the moon and crators  in good detail like in the video as she would love this so please confirm if the dobs are able to do this.

- Great to be able to see a few other things. Amazing to be able to see Jupiter like he showed in the video but realise this might be a compromise

- easy to transport and not overly fiddly set up as can't set up at home or leave in situ etc

 

What kind of detail could binoculars see on the moon or elsewhere?

 

Many thanks again - this has been massively helpful, you have no idea how much!

Sarah

[Saggy]

17 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Have a watch of this vid. 

 

Perfect thanks - yes I can see the issues with the EQ mount and would probably be best to avoid at first as I'm assuming it takes a while to locate things other than then moon and set up to view never mind all the extra knobs 😄

I'm so sorry, I normally dislike people who don't do enough research first and I normally do it myself but I just didn't know where to start and only had this afternoon to get it sorted. Doing a google recommended search kept coming up with a list of those I had already assumed best avoided so really needed the help today to find more precise and exact info as have such limited time and I am eternally grateful 🙂

 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

29 minutes ago, Saggy said:

Thanks, can someone please explain the difference between an AZ and EQ mount?

I'm assuming it's the EQ mount of the first option I linked for £79 at Aldi (76/700 national geographic one with all the bits) is what truly writes it off as an option?

I'm not so sure about the friend of a friend. I have some friends whom I would instantly trust their friends but this particular friend has no idea of what the word quality or longevity means and regularly buys from places such as wish... so a friend of theirs... I wouldn't be quite so confident of the "as new" status from one of her acquaintances I have to admit. Also I have the additional concern that it would be coming from Santa rather than me so I can't write off second hand problems with it quite so easily as Santa wouldn't leave something broken, scratched etc perhaps.

Basically, an altitude azimuth mount you plonk it down and point the telescope at an object. Equatorial mounts you at least roughly point the mount at Polaris before using it and counter balance the telescope. That is very very basic but as much info you need for now! On the whole, a cheap alt az mount is less complicated and less rickety than an equivalent equatorial. Just easier all round to start using. One less thing to work out.

Again over your budget by a bit but another option:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-mercury-707-az-telescope.html about £118 with delivery and in stock from a trusted retailer.

The National Geographic refractors don't have a good rep and are often seen for sale used on Ebay.

Regarding binoculars, you can see Jupiter as a bright disk and its 4 largest moons. The moon , you can make out larger craters and mountains. If you're somewhere dark, then deep sky object such as nebulae, open star clusters and some globular clusters resolved as 'fuzzies'. Many double stars, comets if you are very lucky. Last year comet Neowise was a fantastic binocular object. Also some of the brighter galaxies. If you camp somewhere really dark, you can see the whole width of the Andromeda galaxy.

Give First Light Optics a call. They're very helpful.

[Carbon Brush]

Oh dear Saggy. Too many answers and pulling in different directions. Things seem to be conspiring to confuse you.

To repeat my earlier advice. Use an astro retailer.
Quite honestly i would take a lot of persuading to give either the currys or amazon scopes to anyone I didn't like.

If your budget will stretch to this..
https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-heritage-100p-dobsonian-telescope.html
Then you will get a telescope that will give lots of enjoyment.

Note it is not a tall scope, so placed on a table is fine for someone 5ft tall.
If later you can get hold of a decent tripod (car boot sale?) this scope base has a standard 3/8" tripod thread. Useful when camping?
Alternatively for camping, site benches are often solid and bolted to the ground. Or maybe i only visit rough places🤣

Sorry to add to the information overload, David.

[TerraC]

The problem really is the budget.  Re-sale value on these budget items is not great as most people who get serious would not touch them.  So it would be an ebay resell if at all possible.  

Binoculars are a good compromise and will get you some nice views of the moon, even with a cheap half decent set.  I picked up some £40 from Amazon not too long back for a quick grab bag and they are great for the moon and constellations.  To get the best though again you need to mount them to a tripod especially on a cold night shivvering away trying to see something.   

Review here on the Meade that you found..     It's a decent "type" of scope but the king in that size/area is the Skywatcher ST80 which again is a bit over your budget.  

https://telescopestobuy.com/meade-adventure-scope-80-review/

Also dont be afraid to go for used.  If you find something ask on here and one of us will be able to advise.  "Most" of us keep our gear in top condition and will honestly describe any faults with anything we are selling.  

 

[Saggy]

13 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Basically, an altitude azimuth mount you plonk it down and point the telescope at an object. Equatorial mounts you at least roughly point the mount at Polaris before using it and counter balance the telescope. That is very very basic but as much info you need for now! On the whole, a cheap alt az mount is less complicated and less rickety than an equivalent equatorial. Just easier all round to start using. One less thing to work out.

Again over your budget by a bit but another option:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-mercury-707-az-telescope.html about £118 with delivery and in stock from a trusted retailer.

The National Geographic refractors don't have a good rep and are often seen for sale used on Ebay.

Regarding binoculars, you can see Jupiter as a bright disk and its 4 largest moons. The moon , you can make out larger craters and mountains. If you're somewhere dark, then deep sky object such as nebulae, open star clusters and some globular clusters resolved as 'fuzzies'. Many double stars, comets if you are very lucky. Last year comet Neowise was a fantastic binocular object. Also some of the brighter galaxies. If you camp somewhere really dark, you can see the whole width of the Andromeda galaxy.

Give First Light Optics a call. They're very helpful.

Great thank you.

 

I did actually try and call first light optics before posting on here but apparently they don't take calls, just emails so it's a little hard to have a conversation 😄

 

Interesting regarding binoculars, I didn't think they'd be so detailed and thanks for the info on national geographic 🐵

 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

2 minutes ago, Saggy said:

Great thank you.

 

I did actually try and call first light optics before posting on here but apparently they don't take calls, just emails so it's a little hard to have a conversation 😄

 

Interesting regarding binoculars, I didn't think they'd be so detailed and thanks for the info on national geographic 🐵

 

Soz I didn't know FLO were not taking calls. Email them stating you have been on the forums and feel stuck. Tell them your very max stretch budget and ask for recommendations for your 11 yr old's Xmas present. They won't try to gouge you! 😁

[Saggy]

1 hour ago, cajen2 said:

I think the limiting factor, certainly with the dobs, is the poor quality eyepieces that they come with. The Skywatcher 100p or 130p dobs have good parabolic mirrors, which means they're easily upgraded later with better- quality eyepieces if your child shows an interest. 

Ah sorry - I misread you earlier and thought you were referring to non dobs for the second sentence. Oh that's useful to know - so can upgrade the skywatcher 100 dobs to see more clearly. hmmm.....

[Saggy]

25 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

Oh dear Saggy. Too many answers and pulling in different directions. Things seem to be conspiring to confuse you.

To repeat my earlier advice. Use an astro retailer.
Quite honestly i would take a lot of persuading to give either the currys or amazon scopes to anyone I didn't like.

If your budget will stretch to this..
https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-heritage-100p-dobsonian-telescope.html
Then you will get a telescope that will give lots of enjoyment.

Note it is not a tall scope, so placed on a table is fine for someone 5ft tall.
If later you can get hold of a decent tripod (car boot sale?) this scope base has a standard 3/8" tripod thread. Useful when camping?
Alternatively for camping, site benches are often solid and bolted to the ground. Or maybe i only visit rough places🤣

Sorry to add to the information overload, David.

Thank you, I'm getting there. I'm leaning towards the 100 dobs although a bit annoying it's seemingly overpriced at the mo 😄

Good to know you can put on  tripod later and also can upgrade eye pieces. I do have a really sturdy camping table so should be okay otherwise will find something solid!

 

THanks again

[johninderby]

The eyepieces that come with most scopes are low quality and just there so you can at least use the scope as soon as you get it and until you get some better eyepieces.

Edited December 8, 2021 by johninderby

[Saggy]

27 minutes ago, TerraC said:

The problem really is the budget.  Re-sale value on these budget items is not great as most people who get serious would not touch them.  So it would be an ebay resell if at all possible.  

Binoculars are a good compromise and will get you some nice views of the moon, even with a cheap half decent set.  I picked up some £40 from Amazon not too long back for a quick grab bag and they are great for the moon and constellations.  To get the best though again you need to mount them to a tripod especially on a cold night shivvering away trying to see something.   

Review here on the Meade that you found..     It's a decent "type" of scope but the king in that size/area is the Skywatcher ST80 which again is a bit over your budget.  

https://telescopestobuy.com/meade-adventure-scope-80-review/

Also dont be afraid to go for used.  If you find something ask on here and one of us will be able to advise.  "Most" of us keep our gear in top condition and will honestly describe any faults with anything we are selling.  

 

I wouldn't mind used, I'm just not confident to buy off somewhere like ebay or facebook as just no idea how well looked after etc or even if pieces missing. Do you have a sale page on here like my other hobby does on their site as I would much more trust you guys 😄

Thanks, makes sense regarding resale so useful to know.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Saggy

[Saggy]

Have to go for now as my daughter is too hungry to leave me alone  but will check for any further responses later 😄

 

[Carbon Brush]

FLO are very good at replying to emails.
Both timely replies, and knowledgable but understandable content.
They have persuaded me to part with a lot of money over the years and I have yet to ask about returning anything.

As a general rule on budget scopes, with a known name (like Skywatcher, Celestron, etc).
The 20 or 25mm eyepiece is OK.
The 8 or 10mm eyepiece varies from poor to useless.

However, once you get up to a post count (you are well on the way) and an SGL membership time (in January) you can access the classified ads.
A very good place to buy well looked after 2nd hand astro kit - including eyepieces.
So if your daughter wants to upgrade and others have given money as an xmas present......

[teoria_del_big_bang]

9 minutes ago, Saggy said:

I wouldn't mind used, I'm just not confident to buy off somewhere like ebay or facebook as just no idea how well looked after etc or even if pieces missing. Do you have a sale page on here like my other hobby does on their site as I would much more trust you guys 😄

There is and you are right that it would be better to buy on SGL and not use Ebay (Ebay usually silly prices anyway or just cheap nasty stuff - as a rule).

But there is a minimum number of useful posts you have to achieve to get access to it, but if you have lots of questions that should not take long.

 

The Buy & Sell section
Access to SGL's buy and sell section is a privilege that has to be earned, You can do this by accumulating 50 posts to view / buy from the classifieds and 250 posts to place an advert in the classifieds.
This has been initiated so that people can't just join the forum so they can off load or buy up astronomy equipment.
Posting an advert on behalf of someone who is not a member of SGL or on behalf of a member not entitled to post an advert is not permitted.
Linking to an external site to highlight an item you have for sale is not permitted on our boards.
Please note that the Buy & Sell section is primarily for our members personal "astronomical" equipment.
Any commercial use of this section will have to be cleared by Admin PRIOR to any sales activity.

 

Steve

[johninderby]

You have made the right move in asking questions before parting with your hard earned money. So many times someone’s  first post is along the lines of I’ve just bought the XYZ scope from the department store and am having trouble using it. 

You can’t tell them they have wasted their money and can’t help thinking why o why didn’t you ask first. 😕

Edited December 8, 2021 by johninderby

[IckleImp]

My first scope was a Travelscope 70. I know the tripod is rubbish but you could get a better Preloved one for a small amount extra. 

Even though I've upgraded I still use it, my first view of Saturn was with it and I was blown away.

 

[neil phillips]

2 hours ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

All true, but if the mount is horrible then that puts people off. Also EQ mounts can be tricky for beginners.  Mr Biscuit had the benefit of his own suite of mounts to try his optics on, so not really a true test of a good beginners scope as it's the whole package that matters. Especially if finances are really tight.

If Sarah is able to pick up the 60mm f10 on an az mount and with eyepieces for £45 then hopefully that will be a nice and very cheap intro without skinting herself.

Its a fair point. But Hard not to see it from the experiances ive had. Everyone is different. Personally i would rather get a cracker of a scope. Perhaps get a secondhand Eq2 later. i got one for 30 odd quid. Thats £145 total. Not exactly skinting herself. Scope wise Certianly better than the 60mm here, I have no experience with the 80mm. But the F12.8 Focal length is likely part reason the scope is razor sharp.  As i said everyone is different. EQ mount could be annoying to one. more versatile to another. My Daughters Celestron 4.5 started life on a EQ1 it never stopped great views of the moon and planets. Really depends What the buyer is like i guess. So fair point if she just wants to get it and forget it.

[Adam J]

5 hours ago, Saggy said:

Okay so watched it through now - We're definitely on the nerdy side 😉

Very informative for me and entertaining. So he's saying the following linked one is his best bet but that the tripod is too unstable which I suppose negates the under £100 if I would need a better tripod on top so possibly better options for over £100? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0002CTZAC/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=gs2&linkId=df9810c6e73dd276d29768e83deecdad&creativeASIN=B0002CTZAC&tag=rorymultistor-21&creative=9325&camp=1789&th=1

 

I didn't quite catch what his previous recommendation was though - the one that shot up in price thereafter so he is no longer suggesting it. Was it celestron astromaster?

I suppose he didn't think too highly of the table top skywatcher ones but what can you actually see out of these? I'm assuming the moon and craters are visible enough but he couldn't see Jupiter well I think but can you see closer planets? Jupiter is very large though so possibly Mars and Venus too small even though they are closer? Can you see other things?

I do like the sound of grab and go and then point of the dobs especially until I know she has the patience for using something more fiddly.

Thanks again, so many choices still but at least I know what not to get and am feeling a little less lost thanks to you all.

 

For just over 100 - something like this maybe

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-mercury-705.html

Adam