Jump to content

Banner.jpg.b89429c566825f6ab32bcafbada449c9.jpg

Tips for stargazing with Scouts


Xgaze

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

I'm training to become a scout leader. 

On Monday evening we're planning to take a group on a stargazing session as part of their astronomy badges. Weather permitting of course!

There's around 20 in the group. Session will begin at 18:45 for about an hour. It's going to be on the edge of large woodlands near the scout camp, Bortle 4.

I will take my Heritage 150p there has also been a scope donated that I haven't seen yet. One or two of the scouts have scope's they will bring and I've told them to bring binoculars if the have.

So, apart from Jupiter, Saturn, Pleiades, Andromeda and, perhaps Bodes galaxies there are probably one or two other clusters we might see...

Does anyone have any other targets or ideas I could add to the list?

Or, if anyone has any experience of stargazing with Scouts or groups of youngsters, what worked well and what to avoid!

Any help and advice will be much appreciated!

Regards,

Xgaze

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure how well this will work but Uranus is mag 5.8 at the moment, so might be naked eye visible, certainly do-able with binoculars, and Neptune  is 7.9 so possible in a scope.  A 5 degree star field chart of each might mean you could get four planets (well five if you include earth) in one night, which would be a nice haul?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From when I have helped out scouts in the past (various skills for DofE and a few evenings) I suggest extra pairs of hands.
If one or two local stargazers could help, it would make the evening go really well.

Another suggestion is a plan B for clouds. One idea is to fix a rule at perhaps 50 metres and see which scopes can read the graduations.

The idea of you running around maybe 10 pairs of scouts showing them where to look, how set an unfamiliar scope, etc...

A long time ago, I was teaching them one evening on some car understanding. I had an ignition system set up.
Several came out to help me unload the car. While my back was momentarily turned, one of them had hoisted the battery upside down onto his shouler.
This was before sealed batteries were common in cars. A quick run to the kitchen, shirt off and rinse well!

They did learn though. A few weeks later a leader was taking a group somewhere in her car. She stopped due to a flat tyre.
Before she could say anything, they were out of the car, watching traffic, locating jacking points......all done in 5 minutes.

Hope it all goes well.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've done a few outreach sessions with scouts, cubs, guides etc though Bristol AS.

My tips would be:

- plenty of parent helpers to supervise small groups (3-4 children per helper)

- each scope has a dedicated operator who knows the instrument

- assign each scope operator 2-3 easy targets that will be seen well with that instrument and that the operator is comfortable with finding quickly and easily.

- have a reserve list of targets in case of patchy cloud cover getting in the way of original targets !

- an event leader to give an initial briefing and intro to the main constellations

- be quite clear about the rules: no running about in the dark, no touching scopes etc etc. Dark and being somewhere different can lead to over-excited children !

- divide the children up and then let each small group go to a scope for about 10-15 minutes

- move the groups around the scopes, on a signal from the leader - a whistle maybe ?

- attention span on a cold night is quite short so let them all see something, then a quick chat, then move on to the next scope.

- do you have a loo nearby ?. Adding a portaloo to our site makes a lot of difference to the comfort of guests and supervisors !

- don't be too ambitious with the targets, length of briefings etc, etc. Keep it simple !

Have fun :icon_biggrin:

 

Edited by John
  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On targets, the ones you have mentioned plus:

- the Perseus double cluster

- Mizar and alcor

- Albireo

- Gamma andromeda

- Messier 15 Pegasus (globular cluster)

- the open clusters in Auriga

 

 

Edited by John
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, John said:

I've done a few outreach sessions with scouts, cubs, guides etc though Bristol AS.

My tips would be:

- plenty of parent helpers to supervise small groups (3-4 children per helper)

- each scope has a dedicated operator who knows the instrument

- assign each scope operator 2-3 easy targets that will be seen well with that instrument and that the operator is comfortable with finding quickly and easily.

- have a reserve list of targets in case of patchy cloud cover getting in the way of original targets !

- an event leader to give an initial briefing and intro to the main constellations

- be quite clear about the rules: no running about in the dark, no touching scopes etc etc. Dark and being somewhere different can lead to over-excited children !

- divide the children up and then let each small group go to a scope for about 10-15 minutes

- move the groups around the scopes, on a signal from the leader - a whistle maybe ?

- attention span on a cold night is quite short so let them all see something, then a quick chat, then move on to the next scope.

- do you have a loo nearby ?. Adding a portaloo to our site makes a lot of difference to the comfort of guests and supervisors !

- don't be too ambitious with the targets, length of briefings etc, etc. Keep it simple !

Have fun :icon_biggrin:

 

Having done this with cubs, fully support all that John says.  I found that a crescent moon is an easy target and one that is appreciated by most, if the planets are visible then Jupiter and Saturn take some beating.

John

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, John said:

I've done a few outreach sessions with scouts, cubs, guides etc though Bristol AS.

My tips would be:

- plenty of parent helpers to supervise small groups (3-4 children per helper)

- each scope has a dedicated operator who knows the instrument

- assign each scope operator 2-3 easy targets that will be seen well with that instrument and that the operator is comfortable with finding quickly and easily.

- have a reserve list of targets in case of patchy cloud cover getting in the way of original targets !

- an event leader to give an initial briefing and intro to the main constellations

- be quite clear about the rules: no running about in the dark, no touching scopes etc etc. Dark and being somewhere different can lead to over-excited children !

- divide the children up and then let each small group go to a scope for about 10-15 minutes

- move the groups around the scopes, on a signal from the leader - a whistle maybe ?

- attention span on a cold night is quite short so let them all see something, then a quick chat, then move on to the next scope.

- do you have a loo nearby ?. Adding a portaloo to our site makes a lot of difference to the comfort of guests and supervisors !

- don't be too ambitious with the targets, length of briefings etc, etc. Keep it simple !

Have fun :icon_biggrin:

 

Thanks John,

Useful advice. 

They will be in their troops with a leader. Briefing will be important and emphasised.

Looks like we'll be short on helpers, one of the three of us has gone down with flu!😑

Hopefully, one or two parents will be around!

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, almcl said:

Not sure how well this will work but Uranus is mag 5.8 at the moment, so might be naked eye visible, certainly do-able with binoculars, and Neptune  is 7.9 so possible in a scope.  A 5 degree star field chart of each might mean you could get four planets (well five if you include earth) in one night, which would be a nice haul?

I like this idea almcl. Could be a fun challenge for us!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

From when I have helped out scouts in the past (various skills for DofE and a few evenings) I suggest extra pairs of hands.
If one or two local stargazers could help, it would make the evening go really well.

Another suggestion is a plan B for clouds. One idea is to fix a rule at perhaps 50 metres and see which scopes can read the graduations.

The idea of you running around maybe 10 pairs of scouts showing them where to look, how set an unfamiliar scope, etc...

A long time ago, I was teaching them one evening on some car understanding. I had an ignition system set up.
Several came out to help me unload the car. While my back was momentarily turned, one of them had hoisted the battery upside down onto his shouler.
This was before sealed batteries were common in cars. A quick run to the kitchen, shirt off and rinse well!

They did learn though. A few weeks later a leader was taking a group somewhere in her car. She stopped due to a flat tyre.
Before she could say anything, they were out of the car, watching traffic, locating jacking points......all done in 5 minutes.

Hope it all goes well.

 

Great story CB!

Thanks for the advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Questions! The youngsters will ask all sorts of questions, your knowledge of the night sky will be stretched to its limits and beyond. When I`ve done outreach sessions in the past I`m always amazed at what the youngsters can think of asking about. I also write out a sheet of interesting facts, especially regarding about what they are looking at, however this can lead to more questions! Basic facts like how far away is the Moon can be surprisingly handy, think of it as like revising for an exam.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're hoping to be out with school tonight. 🤞

If you have the space and can guarantee the safety of the 'scopes, then a bit of free time to run around in the dark is actually very worthwhile.

It's not often that children get to explore the dark in a safe environment.

I've a collection of the cheap LED rear bike lights that are also a complete bonus.

And a set of Christmas lights around the entrance and along the initial path for a bit of health and safety. :D

We can't do parents in school at the mo, so I have limited the numbers, but we do have 4 'scopes. :)

Above all, have fun and enjoy it!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did some of this a few years back. Show them how to find polaris the saucepan its north how the stars rotate around it show them a compass (phones) they should learn something about this for a navigation badge the sun and moon on the ecliptic for east west. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, bingevader said:

We're hoping to be out with school tonight. 🤞

If you have the space and can guarantee the safety of the 'scopes, then a bit of free time to run around in the dark is actually very worthwhile.

It's not often that children get to explore the dark in a safe environment.

I've a collection of the cheap LED rear bike lights that are also a complete bonus.

And a set of Christmas lights around the entrance and along the initial path for a bit of health and safety. :D

We can't do parents in school at the mo, so I have limited the numbers, but we do have 4 'scopes. :)

Above all, have fun and enjoy it!

I'm doing an outreach session with Bristol AS tonight at a nearby school. It's taken quite a while for a decent clear evening to come along but tonight looks good.

I think we will have 4/5 scopes as well.

Hope you have a good one ! :smiley:

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again to everyone who replied, some really useful advice, such a great forum I'm proud to be part of!

It was a beautifully clear evening when I arrived and got a fire started only to cloud over by the time everyone turned up 45mins later! However, the clouds began to disperse and leave us a short window.

We alternated each group of around 4-5 between stargazing with myself and following track markers through the wooded pathways. This seemed to work well giving each group about 20mins with me.

Seeing didn't seem that great though, Jupiter was quite blurred and a bit wobbly perhaps due to atmospheric conditions and the fact that I think; even though we were in the next field to the camp the fire smoke was blowing our way - schoolboy error! Anyways, they could see the four Galilean moons.

Frustratingly, Saturn had dropped down below the tree line, I think that would have added a much better "wow!" factor!

We went on to look at Pleiades and discussed different constellations including Cassiopeia which led us to M31 Andromeda. I feel some of them might have been a little underwhelmed! Then the clouds rolled back! so annoying! we did manage to discuss why the constellations move across the sky heading southwards, how the moon effects the tides and one or two other question and answers that will go towards their Astronomer badges so, all was not lost! with most enjoying the short session.

Looking forwards to another go, better prepared and in the warmer months!

Best,

Tony

 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Gonariu said:

A question: how did you get everyone to observe, taking into account that the covid can also be taken through the mucous membrane of the eyes and therefore it is not good to have everyone observe the same eyepiece? This interests me because in normal times I make my students observe the Moon and planets in Nuoro (a town of 36,000 inhabitants), but I haven't been able to do this for almost two years.

Hi Gonariu,

All attendees must take Lateral Flow Tests before meeting. This includes everyone who's 11 years and above which Scouts are.

So, with negative tests and considering that we don't allow our eyeballs to come into contact with the eyepieces for obvious reasons. Also, that we're all outside (masks must be worn at indoor meetings) I'd say the risk is minimal.

I'm sure restrictions, policy and guidance differs vastly between countries. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had a similar experience to you Tony.

Clouds came and went, but everything a bit fuzzy.

Still an enjoyable evening. :)

I had a 1º locking nut fall out of the 8" 'scope as I removed it from the car (recollimated this evening)! 🙄

How was your evening John?

Edited by bingevader
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, bingevader said:

We had a similar experience to you Tony.

Clouds came and went, but everything a bit fuzzy.

Still an enjoyable evening. :)

I had a 1º locking nut fall out of the 8" 'scope as I removed it from the car (recollimated this evening)! 🙄

How was your evening John?

Similar although the other way around - things started a bit fuzzy (poor seeing) but got better as the evening went on. Trouble was, most of the visitors seemed to run out of steam after an hour or so. We spent the last 30 minutes just comparing the views in our scopes.

As my scope was cooled I set it up again when I got home and had another hour on various targets before the clouds came across.

I think the visitors to the outreach session enjoyed it but I think some might have wished that they had worn another layer or two :rolleyes2:

I really enjoy sharing the views through a scope with others - it's the thing I missed the most in astronomy over the past 18 months when we could not do it.

I'm glad yours and Xgaze's sessions went well :)

Whenever I'm doing some outreach and sharing the views John Dobson's words pop into my head that the most important thing about a telescope is how many people other than the owner, get to look through it :smiley:

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John said:

 

I'm glad yours and Xgaze's sessions went well :)

Whenever I'm doing some outreach and sharing the views John Dobson's words pop into my head that the most important thing about a telescope is how many people other than the owner, get to look through it :smiley:

 

Thanks John.

That quote is very true. Sharing the view's and experience with people is a hugely enjoyable and satisfying benefit that I would never have thought about or, expected before owning a telescope.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I once suggested to a District Commissioner in the UK Scout movement who was enquiring about astronomy badge testers and the type of knowledge required by the tester that there was no solar knowledge in the curriculum, his reply was "what has the sun to do with astronomy, it's not important for the Scouts to learn about the sun."

After I had picked myself up from the floor I told him in no uncertain terms that if there were no sun the Earth would not exist.  The sun grows all the food we eat directly as in plant, food or indirectly by feeding the animals we eat.

He answered, "well it's not astronomy anyway!"

God, if you believe in him, help us all if that how they teach our kids!

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.