A Classic ?

[Franklin]

Different people have different ideas about different things. One persons "Classic" is another persons scrap. Take the Mk2 Ford Escort I learnt to drive in, it was just a car to me and still would be, if I hadn't of weighed it in down the scrappies. Doh!

[RT65CB-SWL]

My 'classic' e/p's...

 <--- TeleVue 13mm Nagler Type 1.        

 <--- Meade 8.8mm UWA series 4000.            

 <---Sky-Watcher 2"/28mm LET|LER Apex.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Philip R

[Captain Scarlet]

On 30/11/2021 at 08:55, Stu said:

I have two that would likely fall into the category; A Pearl River manufactured Televue Genesis f5, and a Vixen FL102S f8.8. Both are pushing on in years but still fantastic performers in very different ways. My ‘modern day classic’ Tak FC100DC sits nicely in the middle at f7.4 and is a fantastic all rounder, but the Genesis does widefield quite a lot better and the Vixen does high power a little easier, though not necessarily better.

Do you not have a Zeiss refractor too Stu (Telementor)? That must be a classic.

[Stu]

1 minute ago, Captain Magenta said:

Do you not have a Zeiss refractor too Stu (Telementor)? That must be a classic.

Oh yes! Forgot about that one 🤪

Does the TAL Alkor count too? Not sure when they stopped production. Will check the date on it.

[John]

My Tasco 60mm refractor is probably 50-60 years old but I don't think of it as a classic. The TAL 100 RT (bottom photo) was around 20 years old and yet I do think of that as a classic. Odd, isn't it

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by John

[johninderby]

A claasic you say. 🤔

[LDW1]

You can see that as with autos if you don't set some kind of guide line ie 25 yrs or more, as per my example for over here,  the discussion will be all over the place with no future candidates and difficulty setting up a list of agreed upon qualifiers.  More an every man, every thought for themselves. Its all just an interesting, ongoing discussion with some sort of an ever changing list as a loose guide. Over here its gone on for years, whether it would catch on over here ?

Edited December 1, 2021 by LDW1

[F15Rules]

On 30/11/2021 at 11:55, JeremyS said:

Classic? Think this rules out mirror scopes

🤣

That's rather unfair, Jeremy, and factually incorrect..upon reflection, you may reflect upon this: the Latin Phrase "Naves infundibulum" means "Ships funnel"..Latin being now a dead language is proof positive that "Ships funnels" (or Reflector Telescopes as they are often known today) were in existence hundreds of years ago.

As such, they can clearly be regarded as "Classic"..😊👍

Dave

[JeremyS]

29 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

That's rather unfair, Jeremy, and factually incorrect..upon reflection, you may reflect upon this: the Latin Phrase "Naves infundibulum" means "Ships funnel"..Latin being now a dead language is proof positive that "Ships funnels" (or Reflector Telescopes as they are often known today) were in existence hundreds of years ago.

As such, they can clearly be regarded as "Classic"..😊👍

Dave

It’s all smoke and mirrors to me Dave.

[F15Rules]

On CN they have a dedicated Classic scopes forum..we had one on SGL some years ago but sadly it was discontinued...not sure why?

I think that over here we tend to think of particular scope models as classic, usually because they were game changing or widely acknowledged as being innovative or in the top of their class.

Sometimes they weren't fully recognised until years after they were introduced. A few examples I'd like to offer, leaving out those scopes already mentioned where possible?

- Skywatcher Heritage 130 reflector..the first introduction to astronomy for many modern, younger enthusiasts, in very much the same way that 60mm F15 refractors from Japan were for the older generation such as mine.

- Vixen SP102 - the "aspirational" scope for many a young stargazer in the 1980s - and considered a "serious" scientific instrument for amateurs.

- Charles Frank 6" reflector. Same as for the Vixen above.

- Televue Genesis. A modern era classic scope both beautiful to look at and optically excellent.

- Takahashi FS series refractors. I know I'm biased, having an FS128, but these "Front Surface" (FS) fluorite doublets were genuine game changers, offering for the first time a design that allowed the synthetic fluorite front lens element to be hard coated, this allowing the optimal doublet lens design for contrast and colour control, with a robust protection for the Front Surface lens.

The FS102 4" version is especially well regarded and arguably contributed greatly to the race for more affordable visually apochromatic refractors, ultimately brought to the "masses" by Synta's FPL53 ED100 range - another classic IMHO.

I also believe that Lzos triplets as worked on by Thomas Back can be considered classics.

Intes/Lomo/Intes Micro Maksutovs and Maksutovs Newtonians from Russia.. brought close-to-apo refractor performance to the market at much lower prices than most early apos.

I'm sure many more good examples can be cited, but for me the definition of a classic scope isn't defined by age, it's defined by performance, reputation among it's peers, and a concensus that it made a real contribution to the furtherance of great scopes for amateurs around the world...however old it is or isn't 🙂

Dave

[LDW1]

32 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

On CN they have a dedicated Classic scopes forum..we had one on SGL some years ago but sadly it was discontinued...not sure why?

I think that over here we tend to think of particular scope models as classic, usually because they were game changing or widely acknowledged as being innovative or in the top of their class.

Sometimes they weren't fully recognised until years after they were introduced. A few examples I'd like to offer, leaving out those scopes already mentioned where possible?

- Skywatcher Heritage 130 reflector..the first introduction to astronomy for many modern, younger enthusiasts, in very much the same way that 60mm F15 refractors from Japan were for the older generation such as mine.

- Vixen SP102 - the "aspirational" scope for many a young stargazer in the 1980s - and considered a "serious" scientific instrument for amateurs.

- Charles Frank 6" reflector. Same as for the Vixen above.

- Televue Genesis. A modern era classic scope both beautiful to look at and optically excellent.

- Takahashi FS series refractors. I know I'm biased, having an FS128, but these "Front Surface" (FS) fluorite doublets were genuine game changers, offering for the first time a design that allowed the synthetic fluorite front lens element to be hard coated, this allowing the optimal doublet lens design for contrast and colour control, with a robust protection for the Front Surface lens.

The FS102 4" version is especially well regarded and arguably contributed greatly to the race for more affordable visually apochromatic refractors, ultimately brought to the "masses" by Synta's FPL53 ED100 range - another classic IMHO.

I also believe that Lzos triplets as worked on by Thomas Back can be considered classics.

Intes/Lomo/Intes Micro Maksutovs and Maksutovs Newtonians from Russia.. brought close-to-apo refractor performance to the market at much lower prices than most early apos.

I'm sure many more good examples can be cited, but for me the definition of a classic scope isn't defined by age, it's defined by performance, reputation among it's peers, and a concensus that it made a real contribution to the furtherance of great scopes for amateurs around the world...however old it is or isn't 🙂

Dave

What you are saying is exactly the same over here with the age factor thrown in. $'s or types has nothing to do with it, its how they stand in the astronomy community.  Its a concensus but no full agreement.  Thats what makes the discussions interesting.

Edited December 1, 2021 by LDW1

[John]

1 hour ago, F15Rules said:

On CN they have a dedicated Classic scopes forum..we had one on SGL some years ago but sadly it was discontinued...not sure why?

I think that over here we tend to think of particular scope models as classic, usually because they were game changing or widely acknowledged as being innovative or in the top of their class.

Sometimes they weren't fully recognised until years after they were introduced. A few examples I'd like to offer, leaving out those scopes already mentioned where possible?

- Skywatcher Heritage 130 reflector..the first introduction to astronomy for many modern, younger enthusiasts, in very much the same way that 60mm F15 refractors from Japan were for the older generation such as mine.

- Vixen SP102 - the "aspirational" scope for many a young stargazer in the 1980s - and considered a "serious" scientific instrument for amateurs.

- Charles Frank 6" reflector. Same as for the Vixen above.

- Televue Genesis. A modern era classic scope both beautiful to look at and optically excellent.

- Takahashi FS series refractors. I know I'm biased, having an FS128, but these "Front Surface" (FS) fluorite doublets were genuine game changers, offering for the first time a design that allowed the synthetic fluorite front lens element to be hard coated, this allowing the optimal doublet lens design for contrast and colour control, with a robust protection for the Front Surface lens.

The FS102 4" version is especially well regarded and arguably contributed greatly to the race for more affordable visually apochromatic refractors, ultimately brought to the "masses" by Synta's FPL53 ED100 range - another classic IMHO.

I also believe that Lzos triplets as worked on by Thomas Back can be considered classics.

Intes/Lomo/Intes Micro Maksutovs and Maksutovs Newtonians from Russia.. brought close-to-apo refractor performance to the market at much lower prices than most early apos.

I'm sure many more good examples can be cited, but for me the definition of a classic scope isn't defined by age, it's defined by performance, reputation among it's peers, and a concensus that it made a real contribution to the furtherance of great scopes for amateurs around the world...however old it is or isn't 🙂

Dave

Seems a good list Dave

You don't see many over here but I wonder if the Edmunds Astroscan deserves the title of "classic" ?. It was a sort of breakthrough design when it came out in 1976.

I'd also consider a Celestron C8 in the original "orange peel" finish a classic design, personally.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by John

[Louis D]

Another possible "classic" would be Rick Singmaster's Starmaster 7" Oak Classic which was practically a classic from day one as its name boasted.  I rarely see them come up for sale publicly.  They generally never get sold until the original owner passes away or are privately sold among club members at many times their original price.  It has been imitated but never duplicated over the years.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Louis D

[NGC 1502]

On 01/12/2021 at 18:57, John said:

You don't see many over here but I wonder if the Edmunds Astroscan deserves the title of "classic" ?. It was a sort of breakthrough design when it came out in 1976.

Definitely agree the venerable Astroscan is a classic. Produced from 1976 until around 2009 something like 90,000 were made.  Edmund Scientific didn’t make the first “ball mounted” scope that honour belongs to Isaac Newton with the invention of the Newtonian reflecting telescope. But in his design the ball mount was separate from the optical tube. Edmund Scientific combined the ball mount with the tube into one unit and the Astroscan was born.

My own Astroscan is one of the later ones. I purchased it from Adrian Ashford when he returned to the UK after working for Sky & Telescope magazine in the USA. Mine had its collimation tweaked by Gary Seronic, he shimmed the front optical window and the collimation is spot on. Although it’s intended as a low power rich-field scope mine produces sharp views up to around 70x. That’s hardly high power but smaller DSOs are often better seen with greater than very low mag.

Ed (not Ting 😁).

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by NGC 1502
Added photo

[LDW1]

As usual when talking about these great scopes, these classics, a photo would be nice as a feast for our eyes, lol.

 

[Louis D]

42 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

As usual when talking about these great scopes, these classics, a photo would be nice as a feast for our eyes, lol.

 

There, I added one for the Starmaster 7" Oak Classic from an Astromart ad.  It must have been a later version because it has a Zambuto mirror.  The earlier ones were equipped with Raycraft mirrors.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, LDW1 said:

As usual when talking about these great scopes, these classics, a photo would be nice as a feast for our eyes, lol.

 

Here are a few of mine…

 

[Alan White]

On 29/11/2021 at 23:20, michael8554 said:

The first GoTo Meade LX mounts are now known as  "Meade LX200 Classic".

Michael

Hmmm, beacuse its Classic or because its marketing.
Just think of all those Pro versions of many products?

 

In answer to the OP, its something that is held in esteem and has earnt it's place in the hall of fame, 
so outstanding in some way, good or bad and its more than 20 years old perhaps.
It can even have a mirror inside if you like 😉
 

Oh and in Car terms in the UK, the Austin Allegro is a Classic Car.....

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Alan White

[John]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

Oh and in Car terms in the UK, the Austin Allegro is a Classic Car.....

 

Especially the "Vanden Plas" model

Back on topic, I used to have a Celestron C8+ which gave me some of the best views of Saturn that I've ever had. Many consider the Celestron Ultima 8 the best of that line though:

 

 

 

[Ags]

Has anyone mention the ST80 yet? Doesn't matter when it was made, it's still a classic.

[Sunshine]

I’m going to call my TSA-102 a classic, lol maybe a while for official classic title but if we’re free to label classics then why not? it just sounds nice.

[michael8554]

2 hours ago, Alan White said:

On 29/11/2021 at 23:20, michael8554 said:

The first GoTo Meade LX mounts are now known as  "Meade LX200 Classic".

Michael

Hmmm, beacuse its Classic or because its marketing.
Just think of all those Pro versions of many products

Users call them "Classics" to avoid confusion with the later, very different electronics, LX200GPS.

I agree that doesn't necessarily class them as your definition of Classics.

Michael

 

[RT65CB-SWL]

A ‘scope is no good without eyepieces!

On 01/12/2021 at 12:06, Philip R said:

My 'classic' e/p's...

 <--- TeleVue 13mm Nagler Type 1.        

 <--- Meade 8.8mm UWA series 4000.            

 <---Sky-Watcher 2"/28mm LET|LER Apex.

 

[LDW1]

1 hour ago, Ags said:

Has anyone mention the ST80 yet? Doesn't matter when it was made, it's still a classic.

I did in one of my posts but it doesn't hurt to repeat that ' everyones scope ', lol.

[LDW1]

24 minutes ago, Philip R said:

A ‘scope is no good without eyepieces!

 

Thats a different story, lol.