Skywatcher AZ GTI mount owners thread

[bomberbaz]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

The difference between colour and mono guide star visibility is like night and day. I still use the 224mc for guiding duties sometimes, been trying to use it more for DSO imaging as it frames up close to certain objects but can't expose long with it. It's kind of useful for live viewing though.

I am wanting to use the 224 for similar smaller DSO that will frame better in it's smaller resolution as well as planetary when they decide to reappear. 

There is loads of info out there and what I am gathering is some fantastic results are being achieved using it on short, higher gain exposures.  I also believe there is talk of dithering to improve the short frame results as being essential as well as adding short pause between subs to prevent amp glow going crazy. 

Also don't even bother if the ambient temperature exceeds 15c, the background noise of the camera goes off scale beyond this apparently. 

I don't understand all the technical side of it but the application idea above makes good sense and should be fun playing around with.

I think it will be a case of trial and error making several batches of subs and calibration frames over a night on the same object and carrying out simple standardised processing to compare. The set one @herne gave on here for use in Siril would be a great standard basic process to compare. 

As for my tinkering with the 224, I am currently ordering in some pc peripherals and other bits and bobs to try and fashion a diy cooler. This will be without the peltier chip, the idea is to cool by a few degrees to just give it an edge over standard non cooled camera and allow you to squeeze that bit more out of it.

 

[Elp]

With a bit of tinkering sure it can achieve great results. I tried it with my 130pds, spacings off but this is 16 minutes on m101, you can see the walking noise in it:

[bomberbaz]

3 minutes ago, Elp said:

With a bit of tinkering sure it can achieve great results. I tried it with my 130pds, spacings off but this is 16 minutes on m101, you can see the walking noise in it:

Not bad at all for 15 mins uncooled.

You can see why the dithering is needed, if your on 10-15 second subs I think I would be doing them less often but there is no serious amp glow.

Did you have any calibration files, and what length/gain were the subs?

[Elp]

I generally use low gain so I can maximise full well, think it was in the region of 80-100, 30s subs. 60s glow starts to creep in, 120s it floods the sensor. No calibration files on this test.

[bomberbaz]

23 minutes ago, Elp said:

I generally use low gain so I can maximise full well, think it was in the region of 80-100, 30s subs. 60s glow starts to creep in, 120s it floods the sensor. No calibration files on this test.

Interesting and at odds with what I have been reading.

However it's all about trial and error and I am looking forward to having a play around to see where things will lie with myself.

Some interesting information on this page imaging with uncooled 224mc - Google Search 

Edited July 7, 2022 by bomberbaz

[Elp]

Apologies, just checked the files,  they were 30s, gain 250, all calibration files, and the result was levels edited post process. Tbh if you use the live view function on the asiair it generally turns out the same.

[Pixies]

First light for my new AZ GTi. Just on a Manfrotto tripod and with my little old ST80.

Not much to see - high cloud and not very dark this far north, but all worked OK. Didn't bother trying to level the mount accurately but started with scope level-ish and pointing roughly north. Aligned on Vega then Arcturus, and after that it was 100%  spot-on.

Best views were Coathanger, Albireo, double-double. M13 was invisible in light skies.

Got it working OK with SkySafari, too. A quick question, though:  I had it working with 'Skywatcher Synscan' and using the IP address of the phone, so that it connected via local Synscan app. However, I've heard people mention the 'Skywatcher Synscan Link' and connecting direct to mount, but I don't see that option in SkySafari. Any ideas?

[happy-kat]

For connecting skysafari to synscan controlled mount I needed skysafari to use connect with wifi, I've run skysafari and synscan at the same time using a mobile Android

Edited July 8, 2022 by happy-kat

[Pixies]

I talking about he distinction between "SkySafari Synscan" and "SkySafari Synscan_Link". I can get the first working using the phone's IP and port 11882, but I believe the latter allows a direct connection using the mount's IP address and without going via the local Synscan app.

However, the latter option does not show in either SkySafari6 _6_plus or SkySafari_7_Pro (Android)

Has this option been removed, perhaps? 

 

[Dark Raven]

22 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Also don't even bother if the ambient temperature exceeds 15c, the background noise of the camera goes off scale beyond this apparently. 

 

 

You could control thermal noise of uncooled AP cameras with smartphone cooler. I just did a small test on ASI120MM-s guider and repurposing smartphone coolers for planetary cameras delivers approx. -10°C compared to ambient temperature in reversible and non-destructive manner. 

My test is here on forum.

 

DR

Edited July 8, 2022 by Dark Raven

[bomberbaz]

2 hours ago, Dark Raven said:

 

You could control thermal noise of uncooled AP cameras with smartphone cooler. I just did a small test on ASI120MM-s guider and repurposing smartphone coolers for planetary cameras delivers approx. -10°C compared to ambient temperature in reversible and non-destructive manner. 

My test is here on forum.

 

DR

Some very interesting results there. I am going to probably return my bits before using them. I didn't manage such good results before and even with more knowledge, the Black Shark coolers are specialised and appear much better and very importantly, much lighter.

Edited July 8, 2022 by bomberbaz

[bomberbaz]

@Dark Raven I ended up buying the magnetic cooler due to seller issues for the phone cooler version. I already have a 10000 m/amp powerbank so should be ample to run it.

For the phone cooler version amazon were the only uk seller, the 3rd party uk seller on there had awful reviews which I am not prepared to risk my money with. Other sellers were overseas.

[Elp]

Interesting. I may look further into this via a CPU cooler and thermal paste.

[bomberbaz]

51 minutes ago, Elp said:

Interesting. I may look further into this via a CPU cooler and thermal paste.

I will have mine tomorrow (Black Shark magnetic cooler) and conditions look favourable. 

If they remain so I will try two grabs of M27 (with and without cooler) and see what we end up with.

[bomberbaz]

Should add, I will also be trying out the 120mm mini guide too so hopefully will improve my guiding of the AZ GTi. 

I am realistic about this though, there is backlash in RA that despite my best efforts is not going to change.

 

[Priesters]

Managed to have another go at capturing the Veil last night whilst up in the Lake District.  I know the processing leaves a lot to be desired but getting these images with such a portable set up and then just spending half an hour 'tweaking' is about where I am right now.  That said I would also like to send my thanks to Mr Musk for yet again bisecting my photo with a white line🙄.

[bomberbaz]

2 hours ago, Priesters said:

Managed to have another go at capturing the Veil last night whilst up in the Lake District.  I know the processing leaves a lot to be desired but getting these images with such a portable set up and then just spending half an hour 'tweaking' is about where I am right now.  That said I would also like to send my thanks to Mr Musk for yet again bisecting my photo with a white line🙄.

We need to re arrange the meet up Andrew, I can give you some tips/help on processing. See how next week pans out. Great detail, tons of data in that picture. 

[Elp]

2 hours ago, Priesters said:

capturing the Veil

Great detail in that one, it's amazing what you can get on it with such a short duration of integration time. Capturing it as we speak.

Regarding star trails I've found if you use the kappa sigma algorithm on the lights (atm I just use the default DSS setting of 2 and 5) it usually gets rid of them or at least minimises it so you don't necessarily have to take them out manually.

[bomberbaz]

On 08/07/2022 at 18:36, Dark Raven said:

 

You could control thermal noise of uncooled AP cameras with smartphone cooler. I just did a small test on ASI120MM-s guider and repurposing smartphone coolers for planetary cameras delivers approx. -10°C compared to ambient temperature in reversible and non-destructive manner. 

My test is here on forum.

 

DR

I made two sets of subs tonight on M27, only brief due to time constraints but results speak for themself.

Both are using the 50mm evoguide, 224mc at 30secs x40 - gain 200 - All are stacked in DSS, no calibration and simple/identical process in gimp.

The first below is without cooling

This is using the black shark magnetic cooler, fair and noticeable difference. 

I think with calibration and better processing the 2nd will be half decent. Aside that is of the star trail from poor tracking. 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by bomberbaz

[herne]

@bomberbaz It looks like something's wrong with that download file.  It's really small for a tiff and can't open it once downloaded.

[bomberbaz]

Mix of cooled and uncooled, calibration included. I would say the phone cooler was taking temperature down to 12C, so when I say cooled it's cooled with a small C. However much better than the plus 20C uncooled. I will try grabbing more data to add to this that is "cooled" to see just how good we can get it with this budget cooling.

I haven't gone mad with processing or testing but I have to say the camera and phone cooler make a worthwhile combination in the right conditions IMHO. 

I think the higher the ambient, the more effective the cooler is. I don't think I was making the minus 10C of ambient as in @Dark Raven bench test.

Total 40 minutes data (80x 30secs) ZWO 224mc with calibration frames  (Flats, Dark flats & Darks). ZWO Dual Band filter.

Like i said, needs more data to make it a worthwhile image but it's a start.

Now I just need to get my tracking in RA a little tighter to rid myself of the star stretching. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by bomberbaz

[Dark Raven]

@bomberbaz Thank you for posting your findings. I would love to see how it turns out in the end.

8 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

I think the higher the ambient, the more effective the cooler is. I don't think I was making the minus 10C of ambient as in @Dark Raven bench test.

I would fully agree regarding the ambient. My subsequent field test achieved only ΔT of 7.2 °C. Starting point does make a difference. I was suppressed it pulled that much in the first place given it has 5.8 W ( 3.5 W ) compared to dedicated AP camera cooler of 36 W. It makes sense from physics standpoint as well. 

 

[Pixies]

The Star Adventurer GTi is about to become available. It's £515 mind!

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/star-tracker-astronomy-mounts/sky-watcher-star-adventurer-gti.html

[Stu1smartcookie]

10 minutes ago, Pixies said:

The Star Adventurer GTi is about to become available. It's £515 mind!

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/star-tracker-astronomy-mounts/sky-watcher-star-adventurer-gti.html

yes or £599 including the tripod 

looks like Widescreen etc will have stock early next week . To be honest its been a good year for new mounts as the celestron Starsense mounts have been a great success . I think the new SA-Gti is a good upgrade from the original SA or AZGti ... dual axis guiding , illuminated polar scope , sensible counterweight system, but as you mention the price , its comparable to the EQ3-2 which basically does the same thing with the same payload .

Whether its worth upgrading from an Az-Gti or a SA wifi ?... the Jury is out !

[Elp]

Certainly it benefits those looking for the complete package, we all knew the price was going to be higher than the azgti, whether it offers any benefits over and above remains to be seen. I still use my azgti primarily even though I've got a sturdier mount to use.