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Is there still a benefit of mono?


assouptro
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1 minute ago, assouptro said:

I’m just wondering if it’s still worth the effort to commit several nights to an object when I see so many fine examples of OSC with dual band filter versions? 

That really depends on whether you need to commit to several nights in order to get same quality as OSC.

 

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Just now, assouptro said:

I’m just wondering if it’s still worth the effort to commit several nights to an object when I see so many fine examples of OSC with dual band filter versions? 

What about 8 hours of OSC dual band data compared to 4 hours Ha + 4 hours Oiii from a mono? 

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Just now, assouptro said:

I am always trying to create a better version of the last attempt of an object and I’m super critical of my own work so I guess the answer is yes!

Then it's simple, get the best mono camera you can afford. If I wasn't saving for a house move I'd get a mono imx571 and I've got the Osc version.

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Just now, tooth_dr said:

What about 8 hours of OSC dual band data compared to 4 hours Ha + 4 hours Oiii from a mono? 

We can actually calculate the difference between the two. We just need realistic data representation and good way to model cameras.

In nutshell - you capture for 8 hours with OSC - but you get only 1/4 of pixels for Ha and 1/2 for OIII with normal qe and additional 1/4 of pixels with half QE.

All of that is with QE reduced by about 10% with respect to mono.

 

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Just now, vlaiv said:

We can actually calculate the difference between the two. We just need realistic data representation and good way to model cameras.

In nutshell - you capture for 8 hours with OSC - but you get only 1/4 of pixels for Ha and 1/2 for OIII with normal qe and additional 1/4 of pixels with half QE.

All of that is with QE reduced by about 10% with respect to mono.

 

Or I could just post my data that I took with my dual rig mono and OSC ☺️

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8 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

What about 8 hours of OSC dual band data compared to 4 hours Ha + 4 hours Oiii from a mono? 

By the way, I would not do it like that :D

If I wanted dual tone image - I would use Duo band filter + Ha filter on mono camera as fastest option instead of using Ha + OIII filters.

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2 minutes ago, assouptro said:

I wouldn’t know 

I don’t have a new OSC camera so I’m not sure what I would be capable of? 

I was trying to point out that if you don't need several nights with new OSC camera - you certainly won't need it with same sensor mono version.

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This is just a quick stack saved on my PC from some of the data the other night, 50 minutes of data with mono IMX571 and 3.5nm Ha filter, and same with OSC IMX571 and NBZ filter (Ha extracted using APP algorithm for dual band filter), both processed in APP, and saved as jpegs.   I think with the moon etc, this isnt a fair comparison, but I hope to have plenty of data moving forward to add to the thread if needed.

NGC1499-Hydrogen-alpha-268.thumb.jpg.0160c31ce6fa2e79a011895fbae18901.jpgNGC1499-NBZ-2600.thumb.jpg.8c36faf67fdbdd209fb1fe9169ad65a2.jpg

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6 minutes ago, assouptro said:

I wouldn’t know 

I don’t have a new OSC camera so I’m not sure what I would be capable of? 

It's total integration time thats important as @vlaiv is saying.  If you can get a good image from the new OSC in one night, then you'll get a better version of that same image in the same time frame with a mono.  That is provided you have a means of changing the filters and refocusing the scope.

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14 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

This is just a quick stack saved on my PC from some of the data the other night, 50 minutes of data with mono IMX571 and 3.5nm Ha filter, and same with OSC IMX571 and NBZ filter (Ha extracted using APP algorithm for dual band filter), both processed in APP, and saved as jpegs.   I think with the moon etc, this isnt a fair comparison, but I hope to have plenty of data moving forward to add to the thread if needed.

NGC1499-Hydrogen-alpha-268.thumb.jpg.0160c31ce6fa2e79a011895fbae18901.jpgNGC1499-NBZ-2600.thumb.jpg.8c36faf67fdbdd209fb1fe9169ad65a2.jpg

Thanks 

 

To surmise
mono is still king! 

I just need a new cmos mono camera when I can afford one so I can take advantage of the faster integrations 

Bryan

Edited by assouptro
Typo
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New Mono CMOS cameras are CONSIDERABLY more expensive than their OSC counterparts.

On top of that you need a filter wheel and SEVEN filters. 

I would say that a mono setup can easily amount to DOUBLE the price of a similar OSC setup, if not more.

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8 minutes ago, oymd said:

New Mono CMOS cameras are CONSIDERABLY more expensive than their OSC counterparts.

On top of that you need a filter wheel and SEVEN filters. 

I would say that a mono setup can easily amount to DOUBLE the price of a similar OSC setup, if not more.

I wouldn’t be after a full frame chip just something that will allow me to continue with my 1.25” filters 

I’d need a mortgage to change them!

And I’ll probably wait a year or 2 until they become more affordable on the second hand market as newer shinier toys attract those that can and will buy them! 
I should maybe complete 4 images with my slower older kit by then😂
 

cheers 

Edited by assouptro
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3 minutes ago, assouptro said:

I wouldn’t be after a full frame chip just something that will allow me to continue with my 1.25” filters 

I’d need a mortgage to change them!

And I’ll probably wait a year or 2 until they become more affordable on the second hand market as newer shinier toys attract those that can and will buy them! 
I should maybe complete 4 images with my slower older kit by then😂
 

cheers 

I'm sure you know that even the APS-C IMX571 wont work with 1.25" filters either.  

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I first got OSC (IMX571) and dual band filter , and after I got also a mono version of the same chip . Each has pros and cons . OSC is easier to use  but the processing is more demanding. It is also slower. Mono is more expensive, needs filters (as expensive  as the camera itself) , but the processing is easier, and images are much better (at least in my case) . If announced 3-4 nm multi-band filters will perform well, the OSC  image quality will come closer to mono. At the end of the day, it is personal preference and available budget. The best camera is the one that is used the most (someone more clever than me said once)

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2 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Including VAT for you, but it has to be added for us in the UK when we buy from EU…

I meant this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001359313736.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f047164JGhOx6&algo_pvid=88c7fc7f-59b2-4b58-9bdc-a75b08237944&algo_exp_id=88c7fc7f-59b2-4b58-9bdc-a75b08237944-0

Comes from China directly so VAT for everyone. When i bought mine i was not charged VAT at the checkout but i think the rules changed just after that and now you pay VAT to aliexpress. You never have to pay VAT twice, if you can prove the value of the item and the already paid VAT with an invoice which you obviously can.

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