What mount do I need for astrophotography under 500?

[Lotinsh]

I want to do some astrophotography, I have tried without a mount so far not terrible, though it is quite annoying that I have to take so many pictures with just the lens, also my tripod is tiny and keeps falling over. I know that I will enjoy photographing night sky so I'm committed. Is the Skywatcher Mount EQ5 good enough? Do I need to buy separate parts for it to work? Like adapters etc? Also any other better mount recommendations? I'm not so familiar with mounts and their types. All advice is welcome

Edit: Just in case I'm from Europe and I mean 500Eur

Edited November 23, 2021 by Lotinsh

[newbie alert]

What lens/ equipment have you already got?

[ONIKKINEN]

I don't think 500 eur is going to be enough for any astrophotography mount, unless you find what you're looking for in the used market.

500 eur is just barely enough for a Skywatcher star adventurer or Ioptron sky guider pro. Neither of these come with a tripod, so you would have to use the current one (which is not great, since its falling over?). These are also not really meant to be telescope mounts, but just trackers for a camera and a modest sized lens. These have a motor in them to track the night sky as the Earth is rotating. With these you will still need to manually find the targets you're shooting. If you have a DSLR and a decent lens, getting either the Star adventurer or the Sky guider pro and a better tripod is probably the closest you can get to your budget.

The under 500eur EQ5 you were looking for is the version without the motors and motor controlllers, so just a fully manual equatorial mount. This will not be helpful for astrophotography as the tracking is what you are looking for. This is the version with the motors GO-TO capability at 879eur: https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3800_Skywatcher-EQ-5-PRO-SynScan---equatorial-GoTo-Mount-with-Tripod.html . The EQ5 is actually a decent mount and will definitely hold your DSLR and lens (with a few bits in between as adapters) or a telescope at somewhere around 5kg comfortably. It will also hold a slightly heavier telescope but things will probably get more difficult with each added kg more, so probably not a good idea to go much over 7kg. The EQ5 with the synscan GO-TO system will aim itself towards the targets you're looking for (after an alignment procedure) and then track this through the night. Equatorial mounts also require you to polar align them first, so that the tracking will be aligned with the Earths rotation.

Buying a mount smaller or "worse" than the EQ5 is not a good idea, the cheaper ones (EQ3 and EQM35) are significantly worse than the EQ5 for not much money saved. You might think you can get away with using the cheaper mount and just "work it out" but take it from someone who made the same mistake: It will not in fact work out and you will end up hating the thing. Saving just a bit more money gets you a much better product!

Edited November 23, 2021 by ONIKKINEN
Price of the EQ5 is 879 instead of 829

[900SL]

You need a tracker. 

Fornax Lightrack2. Best tracker for the money by a long way

Bosch 170 survey tripod, 70 euro, solid as a rock

The Fornax wedge is eyewatering expensive and over budget but works. 

Or find second hand WO wedge or similar

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by 900SL

[jefrs]

Do not buy cheap and nasty.  Or something that needs three more parts of equal expense to make it work.

For simple astrophotography with camera and lens, the Sky Watcher Star-Adventurer with a hefty photographic tripod (Manfrotto 055XPROB or similar). . With that you get the wedge, the motor, the mount, polar finder, and counter weight.  And it is relatively light and portable.  About £330 quid plus about £150 for new tripod. Eats batteries and wants a power supply.

Latest version comes with wifi. I cannot think why you would need that on this.  It can be guided but not really needed because its motor is good and it's only got one axis to control.

It is simple. It works.

[malc-c]

A decade or so ago things were simple,  SW had around three mounts, possibly four if you include the EQ6 and you could recommend a mount to suit a particular payload.  Today with such a wide variety of mounts, some designed for camera mounting rather than scopes, it's very difficult to suggest just one.

The main thing to consider is payload.  What is the weight of all the camera and lenses? - Ideally you don't want the total payload to be right on the edge of the mounts limits.  The next important function is for the mount to be equatorial and be driven so it can track objects.  An ALT / AZ mount will suffer from field rotation, which whilst it can be worked around, is better to have it removed form the equation at the start.

Now whether you will find a mount that fits these requirements for your budget is another thing.  

[david_taurus83]

7 hours ago, 900SL said:

You need a tracker. 

Fornax Lightrack2. Best tracker for the money by a long way

Bosch 170 survey tripod, 70 euro, solid as a rock

The Fornax wedge is eyewatering expensive and over budget but works. 

Or find second hand WO wedge or similar

 

You sure about a survey tripod? Coarse 5/8 thread as standard. I looked at this option a while ago as I have a few tripods (engineering surveyor) but couldn't find an adapter down to 1/4.

[900SL]

yes, I used a 3/8" x 16 bolt and oversize washer, you can remove the original 5/8", quite a few people done this

Principle here, not an endorsement, I made my own adaptor. The Bosch with the flat top plate is 10 times the stiffness of my Benro tripod. Does not move whatsoever once the feet are set in.

 

 https://www.little-enterprises.com/store/p16/TRIPODAPTER__3%2F8-16_stud.html

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by 900SL

[CaptainKingsmill]

11 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Buying a mount smaller or "worse" than the EQ5 is not a good idea, the cheaper ones (EQ3 and EQM35) are significantly worse than the EQ5 for not much money saved. 

Can I just weigh in that the EQ3 and the EQM35 are not equivalent, and the EQM35 is definitely not significantly worse than an EQ5. 

The EQM35 is a perfectly capable mount for entry level astrophotography, and actually has a higher rated payload (although only by a little) and greater precision than the EQ5 due to it's 180tooth RA gear and modern design. It also has a higher degree of flexibility as it can be used in RA only mode which might even be more useful for OP.

That being said, OP just has a camera and some lens's, even a EQM35 would be overkill. Something like a star adventurer as @jefrs has suggested would be perfectly fine for his current needs ( and probably a sturdier tripod)

 

[ONIKKINEN]

2 minutes ago, CaptainKingsmill said:

Can I just weigh in that the EQ3 and the EQM35 are not equivalent, and the EQM35 is definitely not significantly worse than an EQ5. 

The EQM35 is a perfectly capable mount for entry level astrophotography, and actually has a higher rated payload (although only by a little) and greater precision than the EQ5 due to it's 180tooth RA gear and modern design. It also has a higher degree of flexibility as it can be used in RA only mode which might even be more useful for OP.

That being said, OP just has a camera and some lens's, even a EQM35 would be overkill. Something like a star adventurer as @jefrs has suggested would be perfectly fine for his current needs ( and probably a sturdier tripod)

 

All of what you said of the EQM35 is marketing fluff and hearsay. The 10kg payload is based on the fact that if you slide the counterweights all the way to the end the mount is technically capable of slewing a 10kg payload and nothing more. It is NOT suitable for astrophotography with such payloads. The true imaging payload should not exceed 5kg and ideally the imaging payload would be 0kg.

 

The greater precision part is partially true. It does have more teeth in the RA axis to potentially reduce the effects of periodic error, but this does not matter since it had NO BEARINGS to hold any weight. The moment you introduce guiding you notice that the sticky besringless RA of the EQM35 will not do the job. In this case the 3 and 35 are very similar where as the 5 is clearly superior. Dont even get me started on the DEC axis with 1-4 seconds of backlash, tight spots, loose spots, stiction, flexure.

 

The modern design consists of: an EQ3 DEC axis (junk) and a slightly improved RA axis that still does not tackle the main issue of no bearings. The mount will have unfixable mechanical weaknesses unique to the EQ3 class of mounts. 

 

Didnt mean to attack you specifically but the mount in this case, so im sorry if it came out like that. It just really grinds my gears seeing people use the same justifications to save 50€ as i had when buying mine. The fact is you dont get 50€ less mount, you get perhaps 300€ less mount (comparing 35 and 5).

[wuthton]

If you're keeping your focal length short, there's nothing wrong with the Az Gti with a couterweight on a wedge which should be in budget. It has full goto, RA and Dec axis and can be guided if you want to add it on in the future. You would need a computer and some software to polar align it using the camera, it'd be a pain without. I use a Raspbery Pi with the excellent Astroberry/Kstars/Ekos combo. With that said I'm reasonably certain that if you ask 10 Az Gti owners how they polar align, you'll get 10 different answers.

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, ONIKKINEN said:

The 10kg payload is based on the fact that if you slide the counterweights all the way to the end the mount is technically capable of slewing a 10kg payload and nothing more. It is NOT suitable for astrophotography with such payloads.

Just for clarity - my 200P, ST80, +cameras and cables came to circa 11KG and that weight is on the limit for an HEQ5 !!  - No way would anything less be able to safely manage 10K and maintain precision and stability.

[nfotis]

For me, the HEQ5 mount (which I bought used) is the minimum for astrophotography.

Trying with smaller mounts eventually will be not enough. There are lighter and capable mounts, like the iOptron CEM26, but these aren't cheap.

N.F.

 

[wuthton]

20 hours ago, nfotis said:

For me, the HEQ5 mount (which I bought used) is the minimum for astrophotography.

Trying with smaller mounts eventually will be not enough. There are lighter and capable mounts, like the iOptron CEM26, but these aren't cheap.

N.F.

 

I'm sorry but this isn't true, you can take some fabulous images with some very modest equipment if you keep your focal length short and your sampling rate high. If I was re-buying today, a big mount would be a long, long way down on my list of priorities. A cooled camera and some nice filters would take the top spot for the big money.

[ONIKKINEN]

37 minutes ago, wuthton said:

I'm sorry but this isn't true, you can take some fabulous images with some very modest equipment if you keep your focal length short and your sampling rate high. If I was re-buying today, a big mount would be a long, long way down on my list of priorities. A cooled camera and some nice filters would take the top spot for the big money.

Depends on the targets in question if focal length and resolution is a big deal or not. Wide nebulae: sure small scopes and mounts are fine. Galaxies: small scope will be disappointing.

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, wuthton said:

I'm sorry but this isn't true, you can take some fabulous images with some very modest equipment if you keep your focal length short and your sampling rate high. If I was re-buying today, a big mount would be a long, long way down on my list of priorities. A cooled camera and some nice filters would take the top spot for the big money.

Matt, 

I'm sure you would soon be disappointed with the results your expensive cooled camera would give when its attached to a reasonable scope on a modest mount...   the two really go hand in hand.  There is no way I would attach something like a QSI 683 to a 200P mounted on an EQ3 or EQ5 mount...   If you are spending that sort of cash then you more likely to be using a 200mm Ritchey-Chretien telescope on a Skywatcher EQ8 mount.

Yes you can get some fabulous images using modest equipment, but often that takes a lot more effort to make the equipment play nice

[wuthton]

6 minutes ago, malc-c said:

Matt, 

I'm sure you would soon be disappointed with the results your expensive cooled camera would give when its attached to a reasonable scope on a modest mount...   the two really go hand in hand.  There is no way I would attach something like a QSI 683 to a 200P mounted on an EQ3 or EQ5 mount...   If you are spending that sort of cash then you more likely to be using a 200mm Ritchey-Chretien telescope on a Skywatcher EQ8 mount.

Yes you can get some fabulous images using modest equipment, but often that takes a lot more effort to make the equipment play nice

Malcolm,

Nice to speak. I have an NEQ6 permanently mounted in a micro-observatory which currently has an RC8 on it. I also have an Az Gti with a Redcat 51 both with Moravian cameras. If you told me I could only keep one rig , it would be a very difficult decision, I'm really enjoying the Az Gti and I'm planning on taking it to the Carribean this winter, there's no way I'm doing that with the NEQ6.

[Elp]

I second Newbie Alert's query, are you using a DSLR/camera or a telescope? We need to know roughly what weight you're planning on using.

[malc-c]

Hi Matt, 

You basically contradicted your other statement and agreed with me  ..  Both mounts are equally suited to the OTA used with them.  But you wouldn't consider mounting the RC8 on the Az-GTi, which is my point.  It may work, you might get something decent, but equally you may run into problems with stability.

Anyway, a lot of what's been discussed here is going OT - That lovely Redcat scope is £200 over the OP 500 euro budget, although the mount would fit within the budget, but for me I still prefer to recommend an EQ  

 

[Franklin]

Don't know anything about imaging, but i've been stargazing for over 40yrs and if you want an EQ, I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than an EQ5 for mounting any optical equipment on.

[Lotinsh]

Sorry guys for the late reply, I had to study a lot. I'm going to be using nikon 3300D and 50mmF1.8G lens, I was planning to use my 130p telescope, thought it seems too heavy for any mount. Would the star adventurer be a good choice? I'm thinking with going with that perhaps, Also thanks for all the replies

Edit: I could also go with the EQ5 Deluxe? Its on sale currently for 380EUR

Edited November 25, 2021 by Lotinsh

[Elp]

For dslr Star Adventurer will be fine, not a large telescope though - limit is around 4.5kg - a small refractor will be okay, I however sold mine once I bought the azgti as it has more features though there's a few issues you will have to overcome with the azgti. The 130 may be too cumbersome for the azgti.

For dslr I find the Omegon LX is an excellent mount, it's also cheap and purely mechanical.

For all these you will need an equatorial wedge for photography to align the RA rotation axis to Polaris, the Star Adventurer Pro/Photo pack comes with one. Also a sturdy photo tripod.

For solid telescope mounting as others have said, and the general consensus is, eq5 bare minimum or heq5, eq6. Vibration is the last thing you need when photographing and with a telescope focal length any errors become more evident. The more you get into photographing via a telescope the most invested you'll get as you'll want/need more equipment.

Maybe start with the dslr, star tracker and with a few longer focal length prime lenses and see how you get on?

[vlaiv]

35 minutes ago, Lotinsh said:

Edit: I could also go with the EQ5 Deluxe? Its on sale currently for 380EUR

How good are you with DIY projects?

You can easily turn regular EQ5 into motorized EQ5 with addition of stepper motor and arduino based controller.

Depending on how complex you want that to be - you can end up with full goto + guiding capability.

Check this out:

https://onstep.groups.io/g/main/wiki

That will be more than enough to get you going with DSLR+Lens or even DSLR + smaller scope.

[Lotinsh]

@Elp Thanks, I think I'm going to stick with the star adventurer

also @vlaiv How much DIY will I need to do? What else would I have to buy? I'm not that familiar with all the parts myself sorry

Edit: the https://www.omegon.eu/camera-mounts/omegon-mount-mini-track-lx-quattro-ns-set-with-ball-head-polar-wedge-/p,71927 is also on sale and seems like it includes the polar wedge, is this perhaps a good option?

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Lotinsh

[vlaiv]

I think that total cost of basic motorization of EQ5 - meaning just RA stepper + belt and pulleys, arduino and stepper driver will cost less than 50e

There is some soldering required and some programming - but I think you can find many examples online.

Look at these links for example:

http://www.buolxloud.com/?page_id=178

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/636559-building-a-diy-motorized-control-for-a-skywatcher-eq5-mount/

Best thing with this is that it can be upgraded later - you can reuse Arduino and stepper motor and add another stepper and turn it into GOTO + guiding platform down the line