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Really Really Really Fed Up !


Newforestgimp
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My love hate relationship with my new GEM45 mount is tipping toward a hate hate one !

Now the mount wont connect to anything !!!! APT, NINA, CdC, Stellarium, i simply cannot get past the iOptron Commander app, it just says no ioptron devices available! ummm think youll find there is, right there !

i have the mount directly connected via a USB cable to the laptop via the USB port on the RA base, i have connected the guide camera and focuser to the rear of an ASI071MC (new as of yesterday) and the ASI071MC is then USB cabled to the onboard ioptron 'USB through port' on the DEC saddle.  and it all connected ok last night and i was able to use everything fine, couldnt focus but not because of computer issues, everything worked fine.

FFWD to this afternoon i wanted to test out some focusing routines (i thought focusing was my only issue) and i cannot get the mount to connect at all, yet the ASI071MC, ASI120MM & ZWO EAF all get detected and connect to APT & NINA fine.

Ive uninstalled and reinstalled the ASCOM, Commander, FTDI app/drivers, no joy. I cant update mount firmware as i dont have the cable, another frustration.

Surely the connection of a mount should be THE most reliable and simple step, it certainly was on my old skywatcher mount, it just WORKED. Think ive spent more time just trying to get things working than i have actually imaging.

Any Ideas ?

Andy H

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4 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

Do you not connect through the handset on the iOptrons? On my CEM25 (now sold) I had to use a serial to USB through the handset. And to be honest, I found Commander much more stable and less buggy than EQMod. 

Well i dont know, but there was no handset in sight last night when it worked just fine. Ive written to FLO for help as i purchased from them, maybe they will suggest the correct method.

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I've just read your first post again. Try just connecting the mount to your PC first. If successful, make a note of the COM port. Then add the other devices individually. Not sure about the EAF but my autofocuser (DeepSkyDad) uses a COM port as does the mount. I fired up my kit a few nights ago but forgot to turn the mount on. It caused a bit of an issue with the COM ports and wouldn't connect the DSD until I done a restart. I also wouldn't trust 100% the on board USB hub. Might work now and again, might give you headaches just as much.

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Windows 10? If so you can try this (with the mount usb cable disconnected):

Go into Device Manager (search for it on the start menu). In device manager select view - show hidden devices. Then expand the 'Universal Serial Bus controllers'. Grey usb icons are equipment that has been connected, but are not connected now. You can delete these (RHClick - delete). This forces windows to forget that device has ever been connected and will force a reinstall of it the next time it is connected.

See if that helps.

devmngr.JPG

Edited by Viktiste
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8 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

I've just read your first post again. Try just connecting the mount to your PC first. If successful, make a note of the COM port. Then add the other devices individually. Not sure about the EAF but my autofocuser (DeepSkyDad) uses a COM port as does the mount. I fired up my kit a few nights ago but forgot to turn the mount on. It caused a bit of an issue with the COM ports and wouldn't connect the DSD until I done a restart. I also wouldn't trust 100% the on board USB hub. Might work now and again, might give you headaches just as much.

I think i will try this tomorrow, and go back to a quality hub. Do you think i should connect the mount via a separate USB cable to the laptop, and the other bits via the hub ?

Also just looking at the serial cable option from USB to RS232 to connect via the handset, will have a chat to FLO about that tomorrow. Thanks

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5 minutes ago, Viktiste said:

Windows 10? If so you can try this (with the mount usb cable disconnected):

Go into Device Manager (search for it on the start menu). In device manager select view - show hidden devices. Then expand the 'Universal Serial Bus controllers'. Grey usb icons are equipment that has been connected, but are not connected now. You can delete these (RHClick - delete). This forces windows to forget that device has ever been connected and will force a reinstall of it the next time it is connected.

See if that helps.

devmngr.JPG

ooh now that could be something, i did notice on commander it was offering COM5 in addition to the auto detect option, didnt work but it offered it 😉

 

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1 minute ago, Newforestgimp said:

I think i will try this tomorrow, and go back to a quality hub. Do you think i should connect the mount via a separate USB cable to the laptop, and the other bits via the hub ?

Also just looking at the serial cable option from USB to RS232 to connect via the handset, will have a chat to FLO about that tomorrow. Thanks

Worth a try at least. Connecting each item individually helps track down the root of errors.

Regarding the Serial to USB method. I should have been clearer, this is the only way to connect a CEM25P to a PC and it worked great. It didn't have a USB port on the mount. Sounds like your GEM45 does so the Serial to USB method may be obsolete.

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I don't have ex

1 minute ago, david_taurus83 said:

Regarding the Serial to USB method. I should have been clearer, this is the only way to connect a CEM25P to a PC and it worked great. It didn't have a USB port on the mount. Sounds like your GEM45 does so the Serial to USB method may be obsolete.

I am guessing that when you connect the mount with a USB cable (not a EQDIRECT cable) then com ports are not applicable?

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11 minutes ago, Viktiste said:

Grey usb icons are equipment that has been connected, but are not connected now. You can delete these (RHClick - delete). This forces windows to forget that device has ever been connected and will force a reinstall of it the next time it is connected.

Ive uninstalled all the greyed USB Devices and will check tomorrow if that clears things up, there were a LOT of devices !

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7 minutes ago, Viktiste said:

I am guessing that when you connect the mount with a USB cable (not a EQDIRECT cable) then com ports are not applicable?

That was incorrect guessing. I just checked with my CEM 70 mount, connected via a USB cable.

In device manager I see it listed as COM 9:

image.png.68498be1e6300abd6b26109fd49e308e.png

And this is it under USB serial Bus controllers:

image.png.463a68300bdaf44015c52b5825055c33.png

 

 

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UpDate:

Cleared all unused USB devices from device manager.
Connected Jackery 12v supply to GEM45 and nothing else
Direct USB connection to laptop via quality USB cable

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k28htc68k0fa7no/Screenshot 2021-11-09 10.26.50.png?dl=0

 

No iOptron Devices Available !!!!! 😞

Andy

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46E95D1C-E72C-4E27-A171-27E54167DE07.jpeg

6EBAB727-3297-4C48-84D2-89DDBA29B926.jpeg

Edited by Newforestgimp
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Some drivers grab an available comms port while others are fixed to a comm port number so I have to start my system up in a set way otherwise I get the "not connected" message. If you had it all working once then just repeat the software start up sequence ( I say " just" but its remembering what worked before! )

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34 minutes ago, Tomatobro said:

Some drivers grab an available comms port while others are fixed to a comm port number so I have to start my system up in a set way otherwise I get the "not connected" message. If you had it all working once then just repeat the software start up sequence ( I say " just" but its remembering what worked before! )

Well precisely, because it was the first time i simply do not remember, but i have cleared everything i can from the laptop and restarted mount and laptop several times. In any case you shouldn't have to remember which cable goes where TBH it sucks.

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Quote

In any case you shouldn't have to remember which cable goes where TBH it sucks.

Unfortunately that does happen, I have all my ports labelled now so I make sure I use the same ones every time.  Including the hub if I use one.

Carole 

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30 minutes ago, Newforestgimp said:

Well precisely, because it was the first time i simply do not remember, but i have cleared everything i can from the laptop and restarted mount and laptop several times. In any case you shouldn't have to remember which cable goes where TBH it sucks.

you don't on 'real' computers. sorry cheap jibe - but on linux (pi, asiair, etc) or on macos they don't have the issues that windows has had since the beginning of USB 23 years ago and still have today.. installing drivers again every time you change ports, NEEDING to install drivers and reboots, com ports changing all the time, etc etc.

I'm gonna get reamed for saying this, but your happiness is being affected by the hell that is windows imho. 

However I suppose if you are wed to NINA and APT your stuck with it.

You seem to have all ZWO stuff though - so my advice for what it's worth, is get an asiair. even a second hand original one. I bet you'll come away wondering why you didn't do it ages ago.

stu

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1 minute ago, powerlord said:

you don't on 'real' computers. sorry cheap jibe - but on linux (pi, asiair, etc) or on macos they don't have the issues that windows has had since the beginning of USB 23 years ago and still have today.. installing drivers again every time you change ports, NEEDING to install drivers and reboots, com ports changing all the time, etc etc.

I'm gonna get reamed for saying this, but your happiness is being affected by the hell that is windows imho. 

However I suppose if you are wed to NINA and APT your stuck with it.

You seem to have all ZWO stuff though - so my advice for what it's worth, is get an asiair. even a second hand original one. I bet you'll come away wondering why you didn't do it ages ago.

stu

Oh I hear you trust me, it was a sad day when my many many years old Mackbook went OOS.

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Update 2:

So out of boredom a few minutes ago I uninstall and re-install iOptron Commander 7 for a second time.

IT WORKED AND IM CONNECTED VIA COMMANDER 7 !!!!

Now I'm so surprised that it did work in a fit of peak I even powered off mount connected mount to USB Hub and tried again, and it connected again !!! new record for me, but now I'm scared lol, I need to understand what I need to do now to make sure it works again tomorrow and the next day, and the next day etc !!

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Update 3:

Cheered by my success at Update 2 i decided to plugin the cameras and focuser, connection dropped and couldnt reconnect.
so this time I switched everything off, connected all the devices to the hub, uninstalled Commander 7 AGAIN, Re-installed it AGAIN, switched everything on, fired up commander Et Voila ! mount connected, and all other connections made successfully in NINA.

So it looks like any kind of connection/cabling change whatsoever requires an uninstall and re-install of Commander, totally absurd and no idea why that didnt work when i first tried but maybe i changed a cable at same time ? who knows, i didnt think i was taking part in the krypton factor (for those of a certain age)

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Good to hear you made some progress.

7 hours ago, carastro said:

Unfortunately that does happen, I have all my ports labelled now so I make sure I use the same ones every time.  Including the hub if I use one.

I do the same, I think is good practice (even if it theoretically should not be needed). 

For what it is worth, you can expand the Ports (COM & LPT) section in Device Manager and see what COM ports are assigned at the moment, and which ones have been in use earlier. Just like in the USB list you can delete the gray ones. Remember to tick on show hidden devices.

In an effort to reduce frustration and to try to make it more stable, always use the same USB's. Once everything is connected and working delete all the gray USB ports and COM ports. Maybe that will help, maybe not. 

Edited by Viktiste
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I did a little bit of testing. I connected my CEM70C to all  4 USB ports on my PC (powered down mount after unplugging , powered up before connecting to the next usb). It connects to COM9 in all 4 cases and Commander 7.0 connects every time. Disconnected mount, Deleted the COM9 in device manager as described above, reconnected mount.  It now connects to COM5 (not COM9) and Commanders connects ok w/o any reinstall.

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Have you tried a different cable to the mount? I don't mean any disrespect but that clear one with the ferrite block looks like those cheap ones you see available on ebay etc. Would be first thing I'd look at as you can't be spinning the dice eveytime you want to set up your kit.

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I cant 100% say what the issue was/is only that in desperation I unloaded commander, reloaded commander and with everything connected as it was it worked ???? I sat staring at it for a few minutes dumbstruck, I felt brave so i pulled the USB out and connected via a USB Hub and it connected again. But then I got way too adventurous and i connected the cameras and focuser to the USB Hub only to find the connection to the mount had dropped 😞.

So I then shut everything down re-cabled the power cables for the cameras/focuser into a deep sky dad power hub thus avoiding any USB or DC connection to the GEM45 other than the USB into the RA axis, connected all data cables via the USB Hub as before, unloaded and reloaded commander and it connected again,.

The other thing I noticed on these successful connections it didn't give any option to select how I wanted to connect or by which port it just went straight to the next screen where you have comms stats, firmware version & where you can select if you want to use mount controls etc.

Regard to cables its the only different colour i have from black and its nice and short, not sure what a high quality USB should look like, it came from Kenable. The others used are the ZWO Flat ones which seem a bit flimsy to me.

Regard to labelling ports are we talking physical labelling like stickers or tagging ports in device manager or something ?

Edited by Newforestgimp
typo
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