Risingcam IMX571 not a gamble?

[ONIKKINEN]

49 minutes ago, tomato said:

I happened to be imaging against a brighter background and noticed a square shaped shadow near the centre of the FOV. I removed the camera and inspected the sensor window and there was a tiny patch of condensation present, a quick blow with a hair dryer removed it straight away. Since then, the 4 watts of heating being applied from the ZWO tape is enough to keep it it at bay.  A dry but cold location would be nice, but not likely to occur for me either.

Ah, i have seen the opposite of that: a bright spot suddenly. Probably high cloud if not dew related then.

Is it this one you installed: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-anti-dew-heater-strip-for-asi-cooled-cameras.html ? Probably should get one just in case, would hate to run into this issue if i head to a darksite off the beaten path one day.

Im curious on the situation this happened in, could you tell what the ambient temperature and sensor temperature was at the time? This time of year my camera cooler is basically idle at 5-10% power usage due to low ambient temperatures so dew is less likely to form, but when spring comes this will definitely change. Last spring i was not running a cooled camera yet but dew in every nook and cranny was an issue every time i went out.

[AmritNZ]

9 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Ah, i have seen the opposite of that: a bright spot suddenly. Probably high cloud if not dew related then.

Is it this one you installed: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-anti-dew-heater-strip-for-asi-cooled-cameras.html ? Probably should get one just in case, would hate to run into this issue if i head to a darksite off the beaten path one day.

Im curious on the situation this happened in, could you tell what the ambient temperature and sensor temperature was at the time? This time of year my camera cooler is basically idle at 5-10% power usage due to low ambient temperatures so dew is less likely to form, but when spring comes this will definitely change. Last spring i was not running a cooled camera yet but dew in every nook and cranny was an issue every time i went out.

thats the same one i used and was recommended right off the bat by Eddie so seems for sure its a known thing. i would say go for it as it is a good preventative measure and doesn't cost a great deal. 

you will see the dew forming by means of a circle growing in size in your subs from the centre of the image. as i blinked through my frames i saw that and thats how i knew during troubleshooting. also the stars will look horrible as the dew gets worse, to the point where even on a nice Ha filter for example you'll get halos. 

[Realtimedoctor]

So I just ordered this off Ali-express! 

In case any other members want to order this, do not forget to haggle. I managed to shave £50 off the price with free UPS Expedited shipping. 

The other thing is you can also ask them the value of custom declaration (if you know what I mean) 

I managed to order this for £850. Which is a massive saving when the compared ASI2600 MC. 

I'll keep you guys posted on how well this gamble turns out, can't wait to get my hands on it.

Cheers, 

Nishant 

[gorann]

3 hours ago, Realtimedoctor said:

So I just ordered this off Ali-express! 

In case any other members want to order this, do not forget to haggle. I managed to shave £50 off the price with free UPS Expedited shipping. 

The other thing is you can also ask them the value of custom declaration (if you know what I mean) 

I managed to order this for £850. Which is a massive saving when the compared ASI2600 MC. 

I'll keep you guys posted on how well this gamble turns out, can't wait to get my hands on it.

Cheers, 

Nishant 

How did you manage £850?

[ONIKKINEN]

5 minutes ago, gorann said:

How did you manage £850?

No VAT paid during checkout and hope that customs buy the fake price declared on the package? I was asked what price i want declared on the package too, but i would not risk it.

Customs agents are not idiots and i think its safe to say they can recognize the package as something more valuable if they lay their hands on it and will open it if there is a question. Once open they find out what actual product it is and demand a receipt stating the exact price. Not worth the trouble IMO.

[Realtimedoctor]

7 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

No VAT paid during checkout and hope that customs buy the fake price declared on the package? I was asked what price i want declared on the package too, but i would not risk it.

Customs agents are not idiots and i think its safe to say they can recognize the package as something more valuable if they lay their hands on it and will open it if there is a question. Once open they find out what actual product it is and demand a receipt stating the exact price. Not worth the trouble IMO.

Probably you are right! But reading on forums, many have only paid a vat of £60 or so odd! Which makes me believe that, they don't usually quote the real price on customs declaration. 

Not that I'm advocating it, the price quoted on customs declaration is the responsibility of the seller. 

Worst case scenario, they'll charge a full vat, it will will only come upto £1k, which is still a bargain even if the camera works at half the quality of 2600MC Pro. 

Haggling saved me a good £50 off the selling price, without paying any shipping costs for an UPS shipping. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Realtimedoctor

[ONIKKINEN]

16 minutes ago, Realtimedoctor said:

Probably you are right! But reading on forums, many have only paid a vat of £60 or so odd! Which makes me believe that, they don't usually quote the real price on customs declaration. 

Not that I'm advocating it, the price quoted on customs declaration is the responsibility of the seller. 

Worst case scenario, they'll charge a full vat, it will will only come upto £1k, which is still a bargain even if the camera works at half the quality of 2600MC Pro. 

Haggling saved me a good £50 off the selling price, without paying any shipping costs for an UPS shipping. 

Very good price regardless.

As some have stated you may have issues with not having a tilt plate or the sensor window heater not being strong enough and having to use a UV/IR filter. These are not that expensive to fix anyway and it will still be well priced compared to the 2600MC.

[Realtimedoctor]

14 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Very good price regardless.

As some have stated you may have issues with not having a tilt plate or the sensor window heater not being strong enough and having to use a UV/IR filter. These are not that expensive to fix anyway and it will still be well priced compared to the 2600MC.

I currently use, a dew heater strip around my coma corrector/focuser assembly. As for some reason, I was having issues with dew on the CC lens. So hoping that the current remidy will keep the dew issues at bay with the new camera. 

Also ordered an optolong uv/ir cut 2" filter for £25 off Ali express. 🤣😁

As I said, looking forward to how this gamble turns out. 

Cheers, 

Nishant 

[AmritNZ]

On 16/01/2022 at 09:48, Realtimedoctor said:

I currently use, a dew heater strip around my coma corrector/focuser assembly. As for some reason, I was having issues with dew on the CC lens. So hoping that the current remidy will keep the dew issues at bay with the new camera. 

Also ordered an optolong uv/ir cut 2" filter for £25 off Ali express. 🤣😁

As I said, looking forward to how this gamble turns out. 

Cheers, 

Nishant 

they do the paperwork fine, so it gets through well in customs. ZWO do the same for anyone wondering, at least to certain regions that i know of from direct orders and via friends. they declare a price below tax threshold and their included paperwork matches so it flies through. but will not say more as dont really want to discuss illegal stuff on this forum or encourage it,it is at everyones personal risk. there are penalties for purposely trying to evade tax.

 

one point to note about ordering filters via aliexpress. do it and haggle too (i did), but also message the official vendor to confirm that this is a legit reseller. i got my antlias off aliexpress and i spoke with the sales team at antlia to verify before ordering, especially for me there is no local reseller in new zealand so they were very happy to help. there really are a lot of fakes there so you dont want to get caught out, worth sending a message to optolong/antlia and wait a couple of days. it worked out a lot cheaper but would have been devastating if i got a fake, bad filters can really spoil your images and its the last thing you need after spending so much on a nice camera. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by AmritNZ

[Realtimedoctor]

9 hours ago, AmritNZ said:

they do the paperwork fine, so it gets through well in customs. ZWO do the same for anyone wondering, at least to certain regions that i know of from direct orders and via friends. they declare a price below tax threshold and their included paperwork matches so it flies through. but will not say more as dont really want to discuss illegal stuff on this forum or encourage it,it is at everyones personal risk. there are penalties for purposely trying to evade tax.

 

one point to note about ordering filters via aliexpress. do it and haggle too (i did), but also message the official vendor to confirm that this is a legit reseller. i got my antlias off aliexpress and i spoke with the sales team at antlia to verify before ordering, especially for me there is no local reseller in new zealand so they were very happy to help. there really are a lot of fakes there so you dont want to get caught out, worth sending a message to optolong/antlia and wait a couple of days. it worked out a lot cheaper but would have been devastating if i got a fake, bad filters can really spoil your images and its the last thing you need after spending so much on a nice camera. 

Thanks for the advice about checking with optolong/antlia about resellers. As I've been thinking about ordering some Ha and broadband filters. They are much more expensive than the simple uv/ir cut filters, so probably a good idea to check before ordering. 

As far as haggling is concerned, it's a must. While ordering this, I showed to the seller, that there were others selling the same camera for £870 + free shipping. After a lot of back and forth with the offers, he sent me a special link with the product priced £850 + UPS shipping. 

 

[Realtimedoctor]

Just got it delivered today, after three days of rescheduling by UPS. 

Looks good on first impressions, solid build. Can't complaint, now I'm stuck without a coma corrector at the moment, as do not have appropriate spacers to get the 55mm back spacing just yet. Got a few things in mail, hopefully will be delivered soon. 

I've quickly attached it to my set-up and seems to work fine with ekos. I know people have been using this, so I wonder what settings people have been using in ekos/indi with this camera for their night time adventures? 

Cheers, 

Nish 

[tomato]

On 14/01/2022 at 16:50, ONIKKINEN said:

Ah, i have seen the opposite of that: a bright spot suddenly. Probably high cloud if not dew related then.

Is it this one you installed: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-anti-dew-heater-strip-for-asi-cooled-cameras.html ? Probably should get one just in case, would hate to run into this issue if i head to a darksite off the beaten path one day.

Im curious on the situation this happened in, could you tell what the ambient temperature and sensor temperature was at the time? This time of year my camera cooler is basically idle at 5-10% power usage due to low ambient temperatures so dew is less likely to form, but when spring comes this will definitely change. Last spring i was not running a cooled camera yet but dew in every nook and cranny was an issue every time i went out.

Sorry for the late reply, yes that’s the dew heater I used. I have run the camera for extended periods at -15 deg C set point in 95% humidity, ambient temp 1-2 deg C and no repeat of the fogging issue.

[ONIKKINEN]

Had my first issue with the camera that resulted in some real head scratching and worrying on my last session: I was focusing with 2s exposures with gain 251 as i normally do and some alarming artifacts appeared. There were horizontal rows of completely dead pixels that randomly changed locations in each frame, but each frame had these. I estimate around 20% of all the pixel rows were dead in each of the frames effected. It appeared as i was still cooling the camera and didn't go away by itself once at -10c (8% cooler power lol). I disconnected and reconnected the camera in NINA, but the artifacts remained. Then i did the good old "have you tried turning it off and on again" by pulling the power plug and it went away and didn't come back again.

I had NINA in loop exposures mode but no frame saving so unfortunately cant show what it looked like now, and cant reproduce it. Since i cant reproduce it and it went away, im not super worried. But since i have not read of something like this happening it does concern me a bit. I should note that software hiccups and electronics temper tantrums are sort of expected for me since i use the camera almost exclusively in high humidity (85%+) and low temperature environments where the camera is not meant to be operated. But if i use the camera in its adviced less than 80% humidity type weather i would still be waiting for that first light 👍.

[AmritNZ]

13 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Had my first issue with the camera that resulted in some real head scratching and worrying on my last session: I was focusing with 2s exposures with gain 251 as i normally do and some alarming artifacts appeared. There were horizontal rows of completely dead pixels that randomly changed locations in each frame, but each frame had these. I estimate around 20% of all the pixel rows were dead in each of the frames effected. It appeared as i was still cooling the camera and didn't go away by itself once at -10c (8% cooler power lol). I disconnected and reconnected the camera in NINA, but the artifacts remained. Then i did the good old "have you tried turning it off and on again" by pulling the power plug and it went away and didn't come back again.

I had NINA in loop exposures mode but no frame saving so unfortunately cant show what it looked like now, and cant reproduce it. Since i cant reproduce it and it went away, im not super worried. But since i have not read of something like this happening it does concern me a bit. I should note that software hiccups and electronics temper tantrums are sort of expected for me since i use the camera almost exclusively in high humidity (85%+) and low temperature environments where the camera is not meant to be operated. But if i use the camera in its adviced less than 80% humidity type weather i would still be waiting for that first light 👍.

yikes thats scary. glad it hasn't come back but sometimes those are more annoying because worried it'll come back randomly at a bad time.wonder if there is some buffer issue with shorter exposures that resolved after reboot. didnt realise the recommendation is less than 80% humidity? living in Auckland (NZ), that is simply not going to happen ever lol our average annualy is closer to 90% and some nights 100%

[ONIKKINEN]

1 hour ago, AmritNZ said:

yikes thats scary. glad it hasn't come back but sometimes those are more annoying because worried it'll come back randomly at a bad time.wonder if there is some buffer issue with shorter exposures that resolved after reboot. didnt realise the recommendation is less than 80% humidity? living in Auckland (NZ), that is simply not going to happen ever lol our average annualy is closer to 90% and some nights 100%

From the aliexpress page:

 

Operating Temperature-10C--50C

Storage Temperature-20C--60C

Operating Humidity30~80%RH

 

But i wouldn't be worried about this. This is just standard electronics industry boiler plate claims to normal operation conditions where i believe the manufacturer could deny warranty claims if they for some reason felt the need to, but the way i see it this is just a "suggestion" to use the camera in conditions better than this. Basically all consumer electronics fall under these conditions and if these were actual limits we wouldn't have smart phones, EV cars, or really any devices with smart electronics in them up north where i live.

 

I have used the camera almost exclusively outside these parameters in down to -23C and 99% humidity weather where my scope gets frosty the minute i take it out of my car, and it has worked fine for hundreds of subs so far. Will report if it happens again, but these electronics hiccups just happen sometimes and there is no way to avoid them in this kind of weather...

Edited March 6, 2022 by ONIKKINEN

[AmritNZ]

19 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

From the aliexpress page:

 

Operating Temperature-10C--50C

Storage Temperature-20C--60C

Operating Humidity30~80%RH

 

But i wouldn't be worried about this. This is just standard electronics industry boiler plate claims to normal operation conditions where i believe the manufacturer could deny warranty claims if they for some reason felt the need to, but the way i see it this is just a "suggestion" to use the camera in conditions better than this. Basically all consumer electronics fall under these conditions and if these were actual limits we wouldn't have smart phones, EV cars, or really any devices with smart electronics in them up north where i live.

 

I have used the camera almost exclusively outside these parameters in down to -23C and 99% humidity weather where my scope gets frosty the minute i take it out of my car, and it has worked fine for hundreds of subs so far. Will report if it happens again, but these electronics hiccups just happen sometimes and there is no way to avoid them in this kind of weather...

thanks for the explanation, makes sense in that regard.

 

do let us know your thoughts if you end up talking about any problems to Eddie/RisingCam. Touch wood nothing bad happens but would be keen to hear how do they handle issues under the stated 1 year warranty. A lot of people that I know have been asking me about it and i've had nothing but positives to say so far along with my recommendations but mindful that everything is good until something goes wrong, and the biggest unknown is what happens with support side if the unfortunate does occur.  

[purplejon]

I bought the risingcam imx571c in March, it produced excellent images, but it has just died on me, will no longer communicate with laptop. Do not know the cause of the issue, I have only used the supplied 12v 3a adapter. Eddie has replied promptly, and I need to send it back to china. I need to pay the return postage, and they will fix and return post under guarantee.  As customer service goes, this is very good so far.

 

[gorann]

51 minutes ago, purplejon said:

I bought the risingcam imx571c in March, it produced excellent images, but it has just died on me, will no longer communicate with laptop. Do not know the cause of the issue, I have only used the supplied 12v 3a adapter. Eddie has replied promptly, and I need to send it back to china. I need to pay the return postage, and they will fix and return post under guarantee.  As customer service goes, this is very good so far.

 

Sorry to hear this! It is worrying and a hassle to have to ship it to China. For others that are thinking about a Touptek made IMX571 camera but do not want to buy it from China, I think Omegon veTEC 571C is a safer alternative as it is sold by several European companies that would also have to handle service or replacement of a broken camera. It is almost half price of the ZWO or QHY versions and I just bought one. Now I am just waiting for astrodarkness to return to Sweden.

https://www.astroshop.eu/astronomical-cameras/omegon-camera-vetec-571-c-color/p,67320

[Stuart1971]

3 hours ago, gorann said:

Sorry to hear this! It is worrying and a hassle to have to ship it to China. For others that are thinking about a Touptek made IMX571 camera but do not want to buy it from China, I think Omegon veTEC 571C is a safer alternative as it is sold by several European companies that would also have to handle service or replacement of a broken camera. It is almost half price of the ZWO or QHY versions and I just bought one. Now I am just waiting for astrodarkness to return to Sweden.

https://www.astroshop.eu/astronomical-cameras/omegon-camera-vetec-571-c-color/p,67320

Also the Altair Astro version is the same camera , and cheaper than ZWO and QHY…👍🏼

[iapa]

39 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Also the Altair Astro version is the same camera , and cheaper than ZWO and QHY…👍🏼

It would be good to see a hed2hed [sic] between different manufacturers and their models

[ONIKKINEN]

5 hours ago, purplejon said:

I bought the risingcam imx571c in March, it produced excellent images, but it has just died on me, will no longer communicate with laptop. Do not know the cause of the issue, I have only used the supplied 12v 3a adapter. Eddie has replied promptly, and I need to send it back to china. I need to pay the return postage, and they will fix and return post under guarantee.  As customer service goes, this is very good so far.

 

Do let us know how the whole process goes once its sorted!

Its a piece of electronics and mine too is bound to fail one day, so very interested to hear how it goes.

[gorann]

9 minutes ago, iapa said:

It would be good to see a hed2hed [sic] between different manufacturers and their models

As far as I know all the less expensive ones (Altair, Omegon and Risingcam) are made by Touptek so there would  probably be  not much of a difference there unless the western importers (Altair and Omegon) have higher QC standards.

[tomato]

Hope the warranty repair goes OK, sending it back to China is the big downside to purchasing one of these cameras. I received mine back in December and it’s still OK at the moment.🤞

On the subject of head to head comparisons, I did a brief qualitative side by side trial of the Risingcam and QHY versions here:

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by tomato
Correct link attached

[poogle]

19 hours ago, gorann said:

Sorry to hear this! It is worrying and a hassle to have to ship it to China. For others that are thinking about a Touptek made IMX571 camera but do not want to buy it from China, I think Omegon veTEC 571C is a safer alternative as it is sold by several European companies that would also have to handle service or replacement of a broken camera. It is almost half price of the ZWO or QHY versions and I just bought one. Now I am just waiting for astrodarkness to return to Sweden.

https://www.astroshop.eu/astronomical-cameras/omegon-camera-vetec-571-c-color/p,67320

Same here, but I ordered the mono version, it's due to arrive next week 🙂

I'm mostly worried about sensor tilt since I won't be able to add a tilt plate to my imaging train without getting a sensor distance of 57,5 mm from the Baader MPCC instead of the specified 55 mm. Might have to buy a thinner filter wheel if nothing else works.

Not many swedes longing for October, but glad I'm not alone 😁

[gorann]

1 hour ago, poogle said:

Same here, but I ordered the mono version, it's due to arrive next week 🙂

I'm mostly worried about sensor tilt since I won't be able to add a tilt plate to my imaging train without getting a sensor distance of 57,5 mm from the Baader MPCC instead of the specified 55 mm. Might have to buy a thinner filter wheel if nothing else works.

Not many swedes longing for October, but glad I'm not alone 😁

I was always sad about the summer coming to an end, until I got into astrophotography😁

Here is an alternative if you cannot fit in a tilt plate:

https://astrodymium.com/collections/frontpage/products/rotating-tilt-adjusters

Edited August 7, 2022 by gorann