Risingcam IMX571 not a gamble?

[tomato]

My initial research into this camera revealed some scary posts about cameras being mocked up to look like they had TEC coolers when they didn’t, and drivers that didn’t work.

However, more recent communication indicates that this is a workmanlike example of this camera using drivers from an established manufacture which work fine with the leading imaging software providers.

I’d like another IMX571 camera to complement my existing QHY268c on the dual rig, I was going to sell my G2-8300 to help fund it but the used CCD market looks to be in the doldrums hence the attraction of the budget version. 

I was looking to buy a mono camera, but like others here on SGL, after seeing the quality of the data from my OSC, I’m not so sure now.

With the cash saved I could by another FR for my Esprit 150, but I’m still not sure about it.

[Stuart1971]

Risingcam / Touptek are one of the original manufactures of this camera, and Altair Astro and Omegon and other dealers use this camera with there own name on it, other than Touptek it’s only ASI and QHY that build there own cameras with this sensor…so don’t think you would go wrong with the risingcam version…

I certainly would but it rather than the Altair version which is almost double the price for just having Altair Astro etched on the side….👍🏼

[ONIKKINEN]

If you are comfortable buying an Altair astro branded camera, you would be comfortable buying the rising cam one since they are identical.

I have the OSC version of the camera, and cant find any critical flaws in it. The much lower price comes from a few points (in my opinion): No adapters included, no tilt plate in the camera body, no UV/IR cut window (their offer cuts off H-alpha, choose the AR window), and most importantly no marketing. ZWO and QHY are the samsung and apple of the astrocamera world and keep their prices up because hey why not? Adding the price of the adapters, tilt plate should you need one and a filter you still get the product for about 60-70% of the competitions price.

TEC cooling works well and i have not had the oil leakage issue on the sensor which seems to plague the 2600MC. Owned only for 2 months so well see but so far nothing.

Drivers are just fine, only issue is that sharpcap runs at a very low framerate of 0.2 fps with 1s exposures. This is some sort of driver issue on sharpcaps side and not a problem with the camera itself since it works in other apps. The included Rising Sky software is actually pretty good for simple captures and has all the options you could want. I use it for lunar captures and the framerates are the same as with ZWOs offerings = dependent on 8/16bit mode, BIN and ROI. I use NINA for normal captures and everything works.

First time buyer from aliexpress so i was a bit wary aswell, but the camera arrived quickly and there were no issues. Immediately after buying the camera Eddie from Rising Cam contacted me and asked some VAT related questions etc. Also asked what price i want reported on the package, the true price or a lower price for lower taxes. I don't know about your customs but i don't want to take the risk with Finnish customs so obviously the true price. Should you get caught avoiding taxes there are no guarantees you ever get the package released from customs and probably face legal action so no thank you.

 

As a test of the cameras abilities, i tried to capture some IFN and faint galaxies from a Bortle 6-7 zone. Some dust is there, but it really would need more integration (5h currently), but i think its evident the camera is working to its full potential. The only reason you see noise everywhere because this is deep-fried stretched and stacked from 600 subs, not the cameras fault that one.

[tomato]

Thanks for the reply, nothing like hearing about your own experience. A lack of adapters is no problem for me, I’ve been imaging long enough to have a reasonable collection, and have access to facilities to make my own.

You have reassured me that the basic camera is fit for purpose so I’ll make some further enquiries to establish the full cost of purchase inc taxes and take it from there.

Then I have to decide whether to buy OSC or mono, but that debate is still on-going in another thread.

[nfotis]

There's another topic on these cameras, which you may find useful:

 

Cheers,

N.F.

 

[Stuart1971]

I don’t think the camera itself is a gamble at all…just wish that we did not have to buy it direct from China, I have bought loads from Aliexpress, and never had an issue, but never spent more than about £60, to spend this much would concern me, more from a delivery and transit point of view, and in what condition it works turn up in, if at all….

If a U.K. supplier bought these in bulk, and sold them here, they would do very well indeed..and surprised it’s not been done, and I don’t mean like Altair have done by adding there own branding plus another £600 to the price, I mean selling for a fair profit and leaving the Risingcam name on them…

[ONIKKINEN]

29 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

I don’t think the camera itself is a gamble at all…just wish that we did not have to buy it direct from China, I have bought loads from Aliexpress, and never had an issue, but never spent more than about £60, to spend this much would concern me, more from a delivery and transit point of view, and in what condition it works turn up in, if at all….

If a U.K. supplier bought these in bulk, and sold them here, they would do very well indeed..and surprised it’s not been done, and I don’t mean like Altair have done by adding there own branding plus another £600 to the price, I mean selling for a fair profit and leaving the Risingcam name on them…

As someone who lives in a country with no local astronomy goods vendors its all the same to me whether i have to send a package back to china, germany or wherever if there is a problem with it. But i do get that point, having a local vendor would be very convenient and i doubt i would use others much.

[nfotis]

52 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

I don’t think the camera itself is a gamble at all…just wish that we did not have to buy it direct from China, I have bought loads from Aliexpress, and never had an issue, but never spent more than about £60, to spend this much would concern me, more from a delivery and transit point of view, and in what condition it works turn up in, if at all….

If a U.K. supplier bought these in bulk, and sold them here, they would do very well indeed..and surprised it’s not been done, and I don’t mean like Altair have done by adding there own branding plus another £600 to the price, I mean selling for a fair profit and leaving the Risingcam name on them…

 

Here in Greece, there's only a small reseller available (500 km away from Athens), so it's not much different dealing with a Chinese seller (and paying VAT directly to the state).

If there's a technical problem which needs  a repair, having a local reseller handling it is cheaper for you as an end customer, but you will pay for this convenience (hence Altair Astro prices). What you really want is a local service center, but even ZWO (the largest company of the sector, I think) has opened such a facility in the USA only recently.

N.F.

 

[CedricTheBrave]

Really pleased with mine, as stated above the order process was faultless and the package bomb proof delivered on the day they said it would.

In use its Good the only issue I have had was the window fogging up when it was very heavy dew last week. This was when it was running at -10 so lifted it up to -5 and it went away.

Mine came with two adapters power supply (UK) and Good usb3 cable in a very sturdy foam filled case

[ONIKKINEN]

11 minutes ago, CedricTheBrave said:

Really pleased with mine, as stated above the order process was faultless and the package bomb proof delivered on the day they said it would.

In use its Good the only issue I have had was the window fogging up when it was very heavy dew last week. This was when it was running at -10 so lifted it up to -5 and it went away.

Mine came with two adapters power supply (UK) and Good usb3 cable in a very sturdy foam filled case

Ah, i should have said that it does come with 2 adapters, a 2inch and a 1.25 inch one! Just not the 16.5mm and somesuch adapters for use with correctors to get backfocus correct out the box.

I like the word bomb proof and think it fits the case well. Im sure the carrying case could be catapulted off a cliff and survive.

[tomato]

If I have read the Customs codes correctly, there is no additional duty to pay on the camera, just UK VAT. 

Just read Martin Lewis advice on buying with Aliexpress, the only concern with this purchase is the monetary value, the advice is “only spend on Ali what you could afford to lose”, but all the feedback on here is that the purchase process is trouble free, warranty repairs is really the only issue.

[Tomatobro]

I see that Rising cam have their own website with everything priced in dollars

RisingCam Official Store | eBay Stores

[JamesF]

9 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

Risingcam / Touptek are one of the original manufactures of this camera, and Altair Astro and Omegon and other dealers use this camera with there own name on it, other than Touptek it’s only ASI and QHY that build there own cameras with this sensor…so don’t think you would go wrong with the risingcam version…

I certainly would but it rather than the Altair version which is almost double the price for just having Altair Astro etched on the side….👍🏼

I would be wary of suggesting that all the Touptek-sourced cameras are 100% identical.  I don't know if they all are or not, but I am aware that when setting up a deal like this it's often possible to, say, require that the components meet a certain standard.  So it may be that different companies are actually selling something that looks the same but isn't internally.  I'm pretty sure for example that the Mallincam cameras made by Touptek use a higher grade of sensor than is standard for those models.

It seems to be the same with all sorts of products made in China.  I recently bought a chipper for shredding stuff that wouldn't go through our little electric "garden shredder".  When researching possible candidates I found perhaps as many as ten different versions of what was basically the same machine sold by different vendors at wildly different prices.  The basic machine was clearly the same in all cases, but some had electric start and some were pull-start.  Different vendors used different engines (eg. a genuine Briggs & Stratton vs. one of several Chinese copies of it), the emergency stop mechanism was slightly different on some, as was the design of the output chute.  The stands varied slightly in design and so on.  From 20m away though, they'd all look pretty much identical bar the paint job, and in fact the video demonstrating assembly of the one I bought in the end (it arrived in a crate) actually used a machine produced for an entirely different vendor.

None of which means that if people are happy with what they're getting for the price they're paying that they should buy something different, obviously.

James

[tomato]

Yes, it still boils down to "you pays your money and you makes your choice". This hobby was certainly simpler 40 years ago when there was not much choice and it was all too expensive.😉

[CedricTheBrave]

when my invoice came from customs it was for £64 (ish) this was for import duties it didnt mention VAT

[Stefek]

12 hours ago, JamesF said:

I would be wary of suggesting that all the Touptek-sourced cameras are 100% identical.  I don't know if they all are or not, but I am aware that when setting up a deal like this it's often possible to, say, require that the components meet a certain standard.  So it may be that different companies are actually selling something that looks the same but isn't internally.  I'm pretty sure for example that the Mallincam cameras made by Touptek use a higher grade of sensor than is standard for those models.

 

James

The components that are used nowadays in consumer electronics are quite generic.  Sensors or other components are sometimes selected on quality and marked "scientific" or "military" or sometimes "industrial" grade. In such case the manufacturer using such graded components would not miss to claim that with bold letters in their marketing materials. Have to admit that I did not see much of that in marketing messages of usual camera suppliers. Makes me thinking that in fact they are all the same if coming from the same source. Of course could be wrong , but so far did not see much of proofs ....

[tomato]

1 hour ago, CedricTheBrave said:

when my invoice came from customs it was for £64 (ish) this was for import duties it didnt mention VAT

Thanks for the info, I dare say I may not have got the the correct code for the item, the description was referring to cameras with 35mm film roll, so they might be in need of an update.

[JamesF]

1 hour ago, Stefek said:

The components that are used nowadays in consumer electronics are quite generic.  Sensors or other components are sometimes selected on quality and marked "scientific" or "military" or sometimes "industrial" grade. In such case the manufacturer using such graded components would not miss to claim that with bold letters in their marketing materials. Have to admit that I did not see much of that in marketing messages of usual camera suppliers. Makes me thinking that in fact they are all the same if coming from the same source. Of course could be wrong , but so far did not see much of proofs ....

It doesn't necessarily have to be that some vendors have improved the spec from standard

Other possible modifications that occur to me are the quality of the TEC and fans, what coatings are used on the windows, and the amount of RAM provided for buffering (I'm sure I've seen similar cameras where that is different).  There may be other types of changes too that don't relate to the materials but to the processes.

It's just impossible to be certain when looking at these cameras that we're comparing like with like.  Equally, we can't be certain either that the vendor isn't just setting a price that they think the market will bear.  Or perhaps Touptek charges different vendors different amounts depending on what they think they can get away with.

James

[tomato]

After further deliberation I have pushed the button on the Risingcam IMX571 version, and…. I’ve gone for another OSC. 

I’m impressed enough with the quality and performance of my QHY version to go with another colour camera, the weather has been so cr*p lately, the ability to get something from an intermittent or aborted session was a big factor in my decision.

[Stuart1971]

1 hour ago, tomato said:

After further deliberation I have pushed the button on the Risingcam IMX571 version, and…. I’ve gone for another OSC. 

I’m impressed enough with the quality and performance of my QHY version to go with another colour camera, the weather has been so cr*p lately, the ability to get something from an intermittent or aborted session was a big factor in my decision.

Where did you purchase from, as i am keen on one of these cameras…?

[tomato]

It was (I hope) the official Risingcam store on Aliexpress. I paid by credit card for some level of protection but the process all looks good so far, order status info as good as anything I've seen on UK based sites. Camera should be in the UK by the end of first week in December, then we'll see what import duty there is to pay.

[Pompey Monkey]

On 12/11/2021 at 20:29, tomato said:

It was (I hope) the official Risingcam store on Aliexpress. I paid by credit card for some level of protection but the process all looks good so far, order status info as good as anything I've seen on UK based sites. Camera should be in the UK by the end of first week in December, then we'll see what import duty there is to pay.

The import duty will be calculated based on the "declared value" of the package. 😇

[iapa]

On 08/11/2021 at 20:04, tomato said:

Yes, it still boils down to "you pays your money and you makes your choice". This hobby was certainly simpler 40 years ago when there was not much choice and it was all too expensive.😉

only the later has remained unchanged.

[tomato]

2 hours ago, iapa said:

only the later has remained unchanged.

For sure the real high end kit is still astronomically expensive, but decent entry level kit has to be cheaper now in relative terms than it was 40 years ago.

[AmritNZ]

Hi it's my first post, I joined to ask about Piers as working on that in my backyard but saw this thread and felt I can contribute It probably looks fishy, no i am 100% not affiliated. I went through the same exact doubts but some of the team over on the r/astrophotography discord group reassured me of what's already been mentioned here - that it's a long time manufacturer making the same for other reputable brands for many years. the specs checked out, there are not a great deal of examples online however, so maybe i can contribute to improving on that situation. most of my final images i put on to my instagram because i don't have astrobin subscription but happy to answer any questions about this. 

 

i was weary too. after much deliberation i placed the order, It came in less than a week to New Zealand, and that was including Eddie contacting me via Whatsapp after the purchase to talk me through a few things. He put it through testing prior to shipping and even found asuitable power cord to match NZ which was a nice touch, i'm so used to using travel adaptors for anything of overseas origin. 

I got the mono version and so far so good, albeit only had about 40 hours of imaging with it. Not sure if it is a gamble so much with the hardware itself, especially when you pay with Paypal and the Aliexpress consumer protection policies in place. We are in summer here and it is cooling well, though one issue I had (which seems to be prevalent also on the Altair cameras of various models) is Dew forming on the AR window. For this I used a camera Lens strap but eventually ordered the ZWO heater strip.

 

There is also more info on this CN thread https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/773197-touptek-mono-imx571-risingcam/page-4#entry11491362

 

i use the camera at  -5c, 100 gain, high gain mode (HCG), low noise mode, 50 offset and 3 minute exposures. my offset might be wrong so do need to experiment more with that, the biggest downside i'd say is unlike the popular brands like QHY and ZWO, you don't have easy reference of camera settings to use so some trial and error. 

 

i do have some tilt on the far corner but not a big deal. have a tilt plate so will eventually try fix but not enough clear skies for such time consuming experimentation, wish i could do that in the day time. 

 

backfocus - you'll want to order a bunch of various adaptors to suit. you can't remove the front on this like with the ZWO, so the option to bolt filters directly on is not an option unfortunately, meaning there is atleast 2mm of additional space between the filter and sensor for the mono version, with the slightest bit of vignette. not a deal breaker as flats fix it. also because of that 17.5mm+2mm backfocus for EFW->camera (vs the 12.5mm of ZWO/QHY), you may find difficulty in getting an OAG on with the 20mm ZWO filter wheel. 

 

the below examples are with the esprit 100 and default flattener, eq6 pro mount, zwo EFW and EAF, antlia 3nm narrowband filters, 60mm guidescope/290mm and the Risingcam imx571 mono. i am in a bortle 5 zone soon to be bortle 6  

this was my first completed image, tarantula nebula.

 

the images come out extremely clean below are some examples of various calibre and demonstrating the dew problem i mentioned in carina.

orion 1 hour total (30mins ha, 15min oiii, 15mins sii). i was extremely surprised by how much of the dust is picked up especially in such short imaging time. 

 

 

carina 1 hour total (30mins ha, 15oiii, 15mins sii). the center is awful because of the dew problem i mentioned above. i had captured this to report the problem, the answer i got back was that it is expected in some environments. i noticed if i just cool to -5c and do it over a period of 10mins as part of the sequence, there is no problem. but i was originally doing -20, -15,-10 etc and letting it run at full power to get there. 

ngc3576 4.5 hours HA. i may have stretched this one too much, was trying to see if i got any of the reported supernova activity in NGC3603 but seems not. 

horsehead 1.5 hours HA

rosette 3.5 hours HA