New 'Universe' Series on BBC2 Tonight

[Franklin]

4 hours ago, 900SL said:

For some reason he reminds me of Tony Blair,

They both smile a lot.

[Soligor Rob]

Sorry guys guys I just don't get this let's knock the program and Professor Cox, if you are are so far above this just hit the other channel button.

I'm not a Henry Cole fan  I had forgotten more about bikes than he will ever know by the time I was 16yrs but he gets motorcycling on to the TV  which is good enough for me, Sam Lovegrove and Alan Millyard provide the technical details which make the program.

Brian Cox is out there selling this wonderful hobby of ours to people that have either just bought a telescope or are going to buy one because they watched Mr Cox, that's good enough for me.

[saac]

7 hours ago, Macavity said:

I get the impression "no one really knows"? lol. There are these Professorships for Public Engagement...
But the distinction between "public service" and personal (financial!) gain is somewhat blurred?
In the PAST, [IMO] you "did science" because you had a passion for the subject? These days,
it is a complex superposition of promoting science... "rationalism"... Getting "Gigs"? 🤔
Not necessarily "knocking it", but times have TRULY changed, since my day. lol
The Professor that attracted ME to "Do Physics" was NOT like them? 😎

To be fair I think Einstein may have set a precedent Chris.   His engagement on his public circuits of paid lectures in the USA and Japan rewarded him quite handsomely !  Prof Cox is in good company then  

Jim 

[saac]

5 hours ago, Soligor Rob said:

Sorry guys guys I just don't get this let's knock the program and Professor Cox, if you are are so far above this just hit the other channel button.

I'm not a Henry Cole fan  I had forgotten more about bikes than he will ever know by the time I was 16yrs but he gets motorcycling on to the TV  which is good enough for me, Sam Lovegrove and Alan Millyard provide the technical details which make the program.

Brian Cox is out there selling this wonderful hobby of ours to people that have either just bought a telescope or are going to buy one because they watched Mr Cox, that's good enough for me.

Tall poppy syndrome perhaps. 

Jim 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

5 hours ago, Soligor Rob said:

Sorry guys guys I just don't get this let's knock the program and Professor Cox, if you are are so far above this just hit the other channel button.

I'm not a Henry Cole fan  I had forgotten more about bikes than he will ever know by the time I was 16yrs but he gets motorcycling on to the TV  which is good enough for me, Sam Lovegrove and Alan Millyard provide the technical details which make the program.

Brian Cox is out there selling this wonderful hobby of ours to people that have either just bought a telescope or are going to buy one because they watched Mr Cox, that's good enough for me.

Personally the criticism is nothing to do with being 'above' anything. I'm a fan of his stuff inc. holding tickets for his next tour. The series isn't up to scratch. Simple as.

[Tim]

On 27/10/2021 at 22:19, saac said:

 Second best quote " we will never know the name of the last star,   but we know that it will be a red dwarf".

In that case we might as well name it now,  but difficult to choose between Rimmer and Kryton........  

[Macavity]

8 hours ago, saac said:

To be fair I think Einstein may have set a precedent Chris.   His engagement on his public circuits of paid lectures in the USA and Japan rewarded him quite handsomely !  Prof Cox is in good company then

That's fair, Jim! To an extent there have always been "Celebrity Scientists"?
The perpetrators of the "catchy" phrase... "God does not play dice" etc. 🥳

To me, the issue is more related to "social media" and celebrity worship...
our "divided society" etc. I sense Einstein meant it pretty much as a joke?
When Cox talks of "Stars as Gods"... and later "regrets it", I do wonder. 🙄

But I see Cox as quite an agent provocateur... Who/what are "Nobbers"?
It seems they are NOT "the religious"? Perhaps they are "New agers" - Oh
wait, they "Maniacs"... Or just "stupid" people... Or folk he doesn't like? 🤔

I have no desire to be seen as "Mr. CERN" (lol!), but I found working in
an environment where folks actively TRIED to smooth over differences
of culture... religion... politics, more positive than "Brawling in the Dust"
with Deepak Chopra? But it plays well with the (Twitter) Science fans. 😏

Hey, I've probably "said far to much"! (lol) But, if there are *still*
"ordinary folk" (my definition!) who love SCIENCE... Minus BS? 🤣

Edited November 29, 2021 by Macavity

[Alfian]

Decided to give it another shot and watched latest on black holes. Some of it interesting and thought provoking. Given the restrictions of filming during current covid crisis the use of UK locations is great. The analogy with a waterfall using High Force in Teesdale I got  but although it was lovely to see Malham Cove, Goredale Scar and Brimham Rocks I could not see the connection. Reaching out to people using beautiful locations and clever CGI as eye candy to maintain the interest whilst shoe horning facts, theories and difficult to imagine propositions is kind of understandable, for me its just that the balance is out of kilter. That said I'm asking myself if it could have been "shoe horned" into half an hour. Maybe so but then again half an hour isn't really Prof' Cox's style so maybe it is a case of a new take on reality - heck I don't know.

[saac]

10 hours ago, Macavity said:

That's fair, Jim! To an extent there have always been "Celebrity Scientists"?
The perpetrators of the "catchy" phrase... "God does not play dice" etc. 🥳

To me, the issue is more related to "social media" and celebrity worship...
our "divided society" etc. I sense Einstein meant it pretty much as a joke?
When Cox talks of "Stars as Gods"... and later "regrets it", I do wonder. 🙄

But I see Cox as quite an agent provocateur... Who/what are "Nobbers"?
It seems they are NOT "the religious"? Perhaps they are "New agers" - Oh
wait, they "Maniacs"... Or just "stupid" people... Or folk he doesn't like? 🤔

I have no desire to be seen as "Mr. CERN" (lol!), but I found working in
an environment where folks actively TRIED to smooth over differences
of culture... religion... politics, more positive than "Brawling in the Dust"
with Deepak Chopra? But it plays well with the (Twitter) Science fans. 😏

Hey, I've probably "said far to much"! (lol) But, if there are *still*
"ordinary folk" (my definition!) who love SCIENCE... Minus BS? 🤣

I  get what you are saying Chris although I must admit I stay well clear of social media ( I don't consider SGL as social media). Einstein was also quietly political, he spoke against Haber (development of chemical warfare WW I), rising German nationalism and he gave tacit public support for the formation of a Jewish state. On the later, I think  he was more interested in the establishment  of a Jewish university.  I don't really have any difficulty with any scientist expressing their political or religious beliefs if asked .  Climate change being a case in point , in fact I'd go as far as to say we need to hear from them.  As for the celebrity side - well again why not?  For years we have bemoaned the poor show science and scientist have traditionally attracted, particularly in the UK.   Middle age men in white coats and unruly hair has been an  image  that has long lingered in popular culture , the same outdated image afflicting engineering as well.  So I'm more than happy to see that change on the back of more colourful characters like Brian Cox. If he earns some media money on the back of his science provenance then even better; good to show the kids that it's not just the preserve of  ex big brother contestants with bleached teeth and fake tans lol.   

What I think both you and me are railing against is the lack of respect and dare I say manners that in better days (pre internet , reality TV) would have framed discussion amongst people of different traditions. Social media seems almost designed to propagate ill tempered debate and ready offence.  Interestingly, Monseigneur Georges Lemaitre received a very cynical and overtly inquisitorial hearing from Einstein when presenting his theory on the origin of the Universe.  Lemaitre had to fight hard to convince Einstein that his theory was solely driven by science and had no theological underpinnings.  He, Lamaitre, would later comment that he saw there being more than one path to the truth  and that he chose to peruse "both ways".  It would be a boring existence indeed if we all saw the world the same way .  

 

Jim 

Edited November 29, 2021 by saac

[Macavity]

13 hours ago, saac said:

.1. good to show the kids that it's not just the preserve of  ex big brother contestants with bleached teeth and fake tans lol.   

2. What I think both you and me are railing against is the lack of respect and dare I say manners that in better days (pre internet , reality TV) would have framed discussion amongst people of different traditions.

Thanks for the your considered (long!) response. A change from "Internet Pantomine"?
You were doing so well, until (1). lol. But H*ll, I'm a "Grumpy old Git", these days (too)! 🤣

Re. (2) You are right! If I could keep away from "social media"? But I still feel that Prof.
Cox might BETTER USE social media for promoting Science, rather than "Remoaning"
and/or Re-Tweeting "CERN stuff"? It is certainly the THE RIGHT of Scientists to FULLY
express an opinion on Religion & Politics (Philosopy!) But I do TIRE of these people...  😑

I LIKE the idea that Cosmology was signifiantly ADVANCED by M. Georges Lemaître...
Something of personal hero? And a "Jesuit Priest"! But I TIRE of the Popular Science
"Atheist Brigade"... I am a *tolerant* person? I am not (an SGL) "religious apologist"...  🙄

P.S. I have genuine sympathies for Prof. Cox... The VERY IDEA he could have *friends*
who "Vote Differently"?!? But then, the internet "Science Fans" can be a tad fickle...
Hey, Brian Cox is now 50+? Like ME, just another Old F*rt with an opinion? lol. 🥳

Edited November 30, 2021 by Macavity

[Whirlwind]

5 hours ago, Macavity said:

Re. (2) You are right! If I could keep away from "social media"? But I still feel that Prof.
Cox might BETTER USE social media for promoting Science, rather than "Remoaning"
and/or Re-Tweeting "CERN stuff"? It is certainly the THE RIGHT of Scientists to FULLY
express an opinion on Religion & Politics (Philosopy!) But I do TIRE of these people...  😑

Science is highly politicised though - you aren't likely to find many 'pure' scientists (i.e. those that don't have business backing with a profit based orientation) that disagree with his political views etc.  It is driven by a funding system that is largely insane and a lot of excellent scientists don't get there work funded.  His online presence isn't about educating its about supporting an agenda for either your own or the university's research.  We are still in a position where if you bring money into a university and if you can self support yourself when you don't get publicly funded that helps massively (which B Cox is able to do because of his musical past).

Historically for pure sciences funding has come from the university itself, the UK science council and the EU schemes (of which the latter had made up about 50%, and maybe greater, of all funding for Astronomy).  The UK generally funded private research businesses (the Rolls Royce mini reactors is a good example of this).  Pure science funding from the UK tended to come in the form of supporting individual Post Doctorate (and occasionally reader positions for a few years).  There is usually a restriction though that you can  submit one/two submissions from a department - so when you look at it analytically the lions share of funding proposals tended to go to the groups that were headed by the Heads of Departments etc.  The same goes for internal university funding which tended to see the lions share of funding go to whichever department the Head of the Science College was from.  Ultimately you end up in situation where money = more research = 'success' = control = money and so on.  The difference with the EU system is that it isn't limited int he same way and usually allows for much bigger bids (for example £1m+ is not unheard of).   This allowed for post docs/phd students that might not have been funded to get some support for their science.  The UK massively benefitted and for the money spent by the government got a huge return.  This option is much less available now - we now have to be more partners, rather than lead universities and at the moment there is a lot of 'caution' in partnering because of the 'shenanigans' and that it is less easy for things like sabbaticals (spending a year or so at another uni but your home uni pays for it) to undertaken.   

With funding much lower than it use to be it should not be a surprise that B Cox is politicising certain issues as that will be part of his job at the university as fundamentally it is get more money for their specific research etc.  So you shouldn't see their posts as for the 'benefit of mankind and education' to an extent.

[Macavity]

1 hour ago, Whirlwind said:

Science is highly politicised...

But PART of me still HOPES? To *some* extent, international organisations
like CERN (Hey, it was not perfect!) try hard! To be frank, my return to the
UK (UK science!) was something of a personal... and "political" disaster. 😑

The visible presence of UK Science is still about (BBC) "posh people"? lol.
But if I can inspire anyone to try to be a (Thicko? lol!) Particle Physicist! 🥳

Edited November 30, 2021 by Macavity

[saac]

6 hours ago, Macavity said:

But PART of me still HOPES? To *some* extent, international organisations
like CERN (Hey, it was not perfect!) try hard! To be frank, my return to the
UK (UK science!) was something of a personal... and "political" disaster. 😑

The visible presence of UK Science is still about (BBC) "posh people"? lol.
But if I can inspire anyone to try to be a (Thicko? lol!) Particle Physicist! 🥳

Chris I took a group of 6th year pupils out to CERN back in 2011, year before discovery of the Higg's boson. Don't know if you were still working there then , be good to think you were and we may have passed each other  - I was the wee guy with a group of teenagers following on trying not to touch everything that said "don't touch"    I really was an amazing visit to a thoroughly amazing place - I remember in the canteen saying to the kids "I wonder how many potential Nobel prize winners never mind PhDs are standing in the que before us"    I'd go back tomorrow. 

Jim 

[900SL]

On 28/11/2021 at 20:49, UKDiver said:

It's possible that he might not even get paid by the BBC for this program. I'm aware of another presenter who does not get paid as it would create 'a conflict of interest'. No idea why though.

Not current but from the BBC:

Other presenters

£450,000 - £499,999

• Matt Baker - The One Show co-host

£400,000 - £449,000

• Alex Jones - The One Show co-host
• Andrew Marr - The Andrew Marr Show

£250,000 - £299,999

• Brian Cox - Forces of Nature & The Entire Universe

[saac]

2 minutes ago, 900SL said:

Not current but from the BBC:

Other presenters

£450,000 - £499,999

• Matt Baker - The One Show co-host

£400,000 - £449,000

• Alex Jones - The One Show co-host
• Andrew Marr - The Andrew Marr Show

£250,000 - £299,999

• Brian Cox - Forces of Nature & The Entire Universe

There is the incentive for current S6 pupils considering their university options, good to see a real scientist holding their own with the "gliterati"    That said, I consider that Cox is underpaid  though compared to the other presenters. 

Jim 

[Franklin]

11 minutes ago, 900SL said:

Not current but from the BBC:

Do you work for the Inland Revenue?

[UKDiver]

6 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Do you work for the Inland Revenue?

The BBC was forced to make this information public. https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/entertainment/bbc-pay-2021-salaries-newsupdate/

[saac]

12 hours ago, Macavity said:

I LIKE the idea that Cosmology was signifiantly ADVANCED by M. Georges Lemaître...
Something of personal hero? And a "Jesuit Priest"! But I TIRE of the Popular Science
"Atheist Brigade"... I am a *tolerant* person? I am not (an SGL) "religious apologist"...  🙄

 

Yes Lemaitre is indeed a personal hero of mine.  I'm pleased to see that the professional physics community are now making up for the lost opportunity and crediting Lemaitre as he deserved . I think he died just having seen confirmation of the CMBR which hugely supported his theory. Hubble Law's is now being referred to as The Hubble Lemaitre Law.   I've just finished reading "The Day Without Yesterday"  part of Stuart Clark's The Sky's Dark Labyrinth trilogy .   It's a historically based fictional novel focusing on the relationship between Einstein and Lemaitre.  It covers the early years of WWI  leading up to their formal meeting where Lemaitre sought Einstein's endorsement of his theory of the "Primordial Egg" , subsequently known of course as The Big Bang Theory.  It's  largely fictional save for the publicly known details of the meeting and the presentation of the Physics theories and timelines  (Solvay conference etc).   I thought it a  good read and I would recommend it ; the other two parts tell the story of Kepler and then Newton. 

 

Jim 

[Macavity]

1 hour ago, saac said:

I'd go back tomorrow.

Almost had me "tearing up" there, Jim! lol. But TRULY, I miss those days...
If "kids" have the opportunity to work at an international (local) LAB? 😎

But that's my bit for SCIENCE "Public Engagement"! "Keep on trucking"
- Keep on Teaching(!) SCIENCE at schools etc. 🙂

P.S. Sometimes I think that Scientists "are born not made"... Your "Inner
Scientist" will OUT - Be it as a "professional" or Amateur Astronomer! 🥳

Edited November 30, 2021 by Macavity

[DaveS]

41 minutes ago, 900SL said:

Not current but from the BBC:

Other presenters

£450,000 - £499,999

• Matt Baker - The One Show co-host

£400,000 - £449,000

• Alex Jones - The One Show co-host
• Andrew Marr - The Andrew Marr Show

£250,000 - £299,999

• Brian Cox - Forces of Nature & The Entire Universe

Which makes Prof Cox's remuneration pretty much small change compared with the big-bucks of other presenters.

[saac]

6 minutes ago, DaveS said:

Which makes Prof Cox's remuneration pretty much small change compared with the big-bucks of other presenters.

I'd say his contribution is also several orders of magnitude greater than many of those big buck presenters, but then I'm biased. 

Jim 

[saac]

1 hour ago, saac said:

Chris I took a group of 6th year pupils out to CERN back in 2011, year before discovery of the Higg's boson. Don't know if you were still working there then , be good to think you were and we may have passed each other  - I was the wee guy with a group of teenagers following on trying not to touch everything that said "don't touch"    It really was an amazing visit to a thoroughly amazing place - I remember in the canteen saying to the kids "I wonder how many potential Nobel prize winners never mind PhDs are standing in the que before us"    I'd go back tomorrow. 

Jim 

 

[DaveS]

7 minutes ago, saac said:

I'd say his contribution is also several orders of magnitude greater than many of those big buck presenters, but then I'm biased. 

Jim 

I'd have to agree with you there.

[City9Town0]

CERN visits.....

A physics teacher I know that took twenty CERN visits from the UK received this....

Dear Sir,

How have you been? Hard to imagine it's been 10 years since I was at ******** for the exchange. I wouldn't hold it against you if you don't remember me. I was an exchange student from The S****** School, India, a tall fellow with a passion for physics. I remember I thoroughly enjoyed your classes.

You encouraged me to ask questions and pursue physics in college and as a career. You had particularly encouraged me to apply to universities in the UK and elsewhere, and through to our interactions, I was convinced that it is important for me to be in an enabling environment to truly flourish. I remember that you showed me a picture of your students at CERN and I was astounded, to me the idea of going to CERN was like visiting Mecca, or even Narnia.

I'm happy to inform you that I did end up visiting CERN, and not just for a day, I've had a permanent office there for the past few years. I will be defending my PhD in Artificial Intelligence for Particle Physics later this year and I just wanted to thank you for your encouragement back then. In the end, the universities in the UK were a bit too expensive so I studied in Mumbai and Paris, and from this October I'll be starting a postdoctoral fellowship at University of California Irvine and Berkeley (a joint position), working on various theoretical and experimental physics projects.

I wonder if *********** students still visit CERN, it would be a happy coincidence to run into you.

A strong positive experience often goes a long way, especially for a young mind. Recently I was moderating a science outreach event called Master Classes, and a young girl from a school in Sheffield later emailed me asking whether it's worthwhile studying physics and computer science. She loved both and couldn't decide which to study at university, so my field of AI for physics interested her. It was a wonderful feeling being able to give her some advice and encouragement. It reminded me of my interaction with you.

 

Hope you've been well during these difficult times, and I hope you continue to get young students excited about physics!

 

Best Regards,

*********

 

It's worth it!

[JamesF]

37 minutes ago, saac said:

I'd say his contribution is also several orders of magnitude greater than many of those big buck presenters, but then I'm biased.

Yeah, that Barry Lineker is well overpaid, I reckon.

James