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Review/Feedback on newbie buying plan


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Hello, complete noob here. My son (17) is getting interest in Astro photography... primary interest seems to be moon right now, buy planets and deep space object as well. He asked for a Celstron Nexstar 5Xe. That seems simple, but limited without much growth room.

My assets are

  • Nikon D90 (I read that these have quite a bit of noise)
  • Nikon D7200
  • 18-200mm Nikkor lens, 70-200 Nikkor Lens, 100-300mm (or close, not in hand) old non AF lens
  • 1980's Celestron 8 Orange tube (no rails and no motors of any kind, just tripod and fork mount)
  • Note: I do not/cannot convert these cameras at this time IR filter-wise. That'd be a future purchase.

From my limited research my plan is to

  1. Use the existing cameras and tripod for some moon photography
  2. Purchase a Celestron Advanced VX and use this with the on-hand cameras for some DSO
  3. At some point convert the Celestron 8 to work with the Celestron VX (with above cameras mounted.)
  4. Consider another telescope now that is not redundant with the C8

I'd like GoTo and tracking. And primarily focusing on photography.

Questions

  1. Does this plan make sense?
  2. Will the Celestron Advanced VX work well with the listed cameras for DSO (and future cameras with IR conversion or dedicated cameras)?
  3. Will I be able to use the old Celestron 8 with camera mounted with the Celestron advanced VX?
  4. Is there a telescope that would make sense to also purchase for that mount that wouldn't be redundant with the Celestron 8... more starter level to get going (the C8 is in another family member's hands)
  5. Should I be looking at a different mount? All the same questions apply for that mount.

Other things I should be considering?

My goal is to get started without getting too far into it yet in case the interest doesn't go too far once all the work is evident, yet not waste money on equipment that is limiting. I mean, maybe the Celstron Nexstar 5Xe with camera mounting makes sense???

Thank you for any direction!

 

Edited by DivingRhino
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Your primary interest seems to be astrophotography.  You should therefore buy and read  the book "Making Every Photon Count", by Steve Richards, (available from forum sponsor FLO), as this will put you on the right track for deep space imaging and save us from repeating its contents here, and you will avoid expensive purchasing mistakes.

As a general comment, deep space imaging is best done with a heavy GoTO mount and a small refractor telescope.  At the entry level, a C8 is not suited for deep space imaging , but is very suitable for planetary imaging, with a planetary imaging astro video camera, on a modern mount.

I would suggest you think in terms of all-new kit for the deep space imaging.  The C8 could be de-forked and placed on a modern GoTo mount (e.g. the AVX) without too much trouble, giving you an instrument suited for visual use, and planetary imaging. 

The C5 SE would be a good (if somewhat expensive) starter outfit for your son, well suited for visual use, and some planetary imaging.

Attaching your existing cameras to a small refractor (or the C8) should not be a problem - you just need to buy the right T-adaptors.  A cautionary note here - I bought a Canon 300D for a trifling sum to look into using it on my telescopes, but found that none of the auto controls worked in the dark, I could not see to work the controls in the dark, and it did not have "Live View" so the only way to check images for exact focus was to transfer them to a PC, which was not a simple process, as the support software only ran on Windows XP.  Too much trouble.  Do your cameras have Live View and a large operating screen?

Another approach to deep space imaging is to put a camera and telephoto lens on a  small tracking mount, dispensing with a telescope and GoTo mount altogether.

Edited by Cosmic Geoff
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Welcome to SGL, @DivingRhino
As this hobby is basically money-driven, specially AP, it would be interesting to know the budget you have available. 
As mentioned, a tracking mount along with your DSLRs could be a good starting point. 
Bear in mind that long FL scopes would require a setup guiding capable (more gear more expensive). 
I would take a look at this post (full of unguided DSO astrophotography examples) and see what equipment people there use. 
 

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With my limited knowledge I'd say you already have enough optical kit to get you going the old C* would be a great scope for planets later down the line and the camera and lenses will get you going for now, see below for a video from @Chris giving an example of what's possible with a star tracker

Budget it what will drive the next answers really, if you are happy imaging with a camera and lenses / small scopes then a tracker will be fine, but I suspect you'll be wanting some beefier kit soon enough and this is where the budget is key, get the biggest mount you can afford and move effectively, the sturdier and more accurate the mount, the better the end result will be, AVX is ok, but there are quite a few other options

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for the good input! Still so much to try to figure out... my main hold up right now is that I am looking at budget, but then it seems like one should really get a mount that will  handle future goals.

Some more detail... son is mostly for the moment interested in lunar photography... and someone asked a budget, which I'd say I want to spend less than $1500. Would be way better to be below $1000. But is it a waste to buy a lower end mount and then later have to upgrade.

I think though too, to enjoy it and continue, it will need to be not too much of a hurdle to get started.

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For what we cannot obtain here, we go there...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

The U.S. version... https://www.amazon.com/Deep-sky-Imaging-Primer-Second/dp/0999470906

I'd perhaps prefer the UK version myself, but I don't image.

Has your son done any visual observing in the past, with eyepieces and a telescope?

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4 hours ago, Alan64 said:

Has your son done any visual observing in the past, with eyepieces and a telescope?

Thanks for the links! 

He has a nice set of binoculars we mount on a tripod, and an attachment for his phone that he's done some pictures with. So, a little observing.

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On 20/10/2021 at 06:41, doublevodka said:

With my limited knowledge I'd say you already have enough optical kit to get you going the old C* would be a great scope for planets later down the line and the camera and lenses will get you going for now, see below for a video from @Chris giving an example of what's possible with a star tracker

Budget it what will drive the next answers really, if you are happy imaging with a camera and lenses / small scopes then a tracker will be fine, but I suspect you'll be wanting some beefier kit soon enough and this is where the budget is key, get the biggest mount you can afford and move effectively, the sturdier and more accurate the mount, the better the end result will be, AVX is ok, but there are quite a few other options

I keep wavering between buying a tracker/staying cheap, and getting a good mount as that's what will quickly begin to hold him back if say he wanted to go from lunar photography to deep space or something (well, lacking all the other equipment would hold him back too... but we'd be purchasing another mount.)

You say AVX is "ok," what other options might you recommend?

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6 hours ago, DivingRhino said:

I keep wavering between buying a tracker/staying cheap, and getting a good mount as that's what will quickly begin to hold him back if say he wanted to go from lunar photography to deep space or something (well, lacking all the other equipment would hold him back too... but we'd be purchasing another mount.)

You say AVX is "ok," what other options might you recommend?

The out of the box AVX apparently has less accurate tracing than other similar priced mounts, but they can be improved with a bit of tuning, for example this one that is currently on Astro Buy and Sell - https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=180263

Honestly it's hard to make an accurate recommendation without a firm budget and scope in mind, but for longevity you want to be looking at EQ5 class mounts and above (EQ3-2 and smaller don't have proper bearings, unfortunately that's what I have), just sadly everything has increased in price a lot recently. Used market is worth a look, especially if you can get something that's already been belt modded or tuned, there are still some decent deals to be had.

In the very short term, if he wants to start with lunar, you already have a dslr and some lenses, it's a bright target so if you already have a tripod too some shots will be possible that way, if the DSLR does video then even better as stacked images from the videos will give much better results.

 

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I'd check your lenses on stars. Many/most kit lenses and zoom lenses are pretty rubbish on stars.

I got a Canon 300mm F4 ULM for my 6d, which is amazing, and I've got a bucket of old vintage lenses I picked up from ebay, some are great, some are terrible. But as a general rule, don't expect a camera lens to give you nice sharp stars, and no CA - test them first.

For DSOs you only need around 2-300mm for most. even 135mm for wider views. So doing it all with camera lenses is a great way to do it, just be aware you might need to buy a few if your nikkors don't cut it.

stu

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6 hours ago, UKDiver said:

Other considerations? Will your son still be interested in 12 months time? Definitely review the second hand market if you want to mitigate this.

Good question... but I figure, if I by equipment that is too hard to use, does not produce acceptable images etc, then I guarantee there will be no interest. I'll be able to sell anything I get (new or used)... even if it's at a loss, then the money lost was spent on the experience.

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8 hours ago, doublevodka said:

The out of the box AVX apparently has less accurate tracing than other similar priced mounts, but they can be improved with a bit of tuning, for example this one that is currently on Astro Buy and Sell - https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=180263

Honestly it's hard to make an accurate recommendation without a firm budget and scope in mind, but for longevity you want to be looking at EQ5 class mounts and above (EQ3-2 and smaller don't have proper bearings, unfortunately that's what I have), just sadly everything has increased in price a lot recently. Used market is worth a look, especially if you can get something that's already been belt modded or tuned, there are still some decent deals to be had.

In the very short term, if he wants to start with lunar, you already have a dslr and some lenses, it's a bright target so if you already have a tripod too some shots will be possible that way, if the DSLR does video then even better as stacked images from the videos will give much better results.

 

"EQ5" is good info... will allow me to search on that.

Budget... I'm thinking AROUND $1000 for mount. I'll have trouble getting much more than that past the boss.

Scope - Hope to 1) mount the DSLRs, 2) mount a scope that would give good detail lunar and planets with an attached dedicated camera OR the DSLRs.

We do intend to go out on our next clear day and use our Nikon D90 and D7200 with Nikkor 18-200, a NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8, and old Spiratone(?!) lens that fits (because Nikon) that's giving me 300+mm. Going to try stacking some lunar shots, as well as some earth landscape/Milky Way sky  type exposures.

Edited by DivingRhino
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12 hours ago, DivingRhino said:

"EQ5" is good info... will allow me to search on that.

Budget... I'm thinking AROUND $1000 for mount. I'll have trouble getting much more than that past the boss.

Scope - Hope to 1) mount the DSLRs, 2) mount a scope that would give good detail lunar and planets with an attached dedicated camera OR the DSLRs.

We do intend to go out on our next clear day and use our Nikon D90 and D7200 with Nikkor 18-200, a NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8, and old Spiratone(?!) lens that fits (because Nikon) that's giving me 300+mm. Going to try stacking some lunar shots, as well as some earth landscape/Milky Way sky  type exposures.

Since your price is in dollars I'm going to assume you are in the US?

EQ5 will be slightly helpful, although different countries have different manufacturers who give the mounts different names just to make things confusing, although they are all pretty much made by the same chinese company. The Celestron CG-5 for example was the same as an EQ5

I'm sure someone will chime in with the right mount names for the US

In regards to your aims for the scope, I'd suggest starting to look at ways to mount your old C8 tube via tube rings or similar, it's ideal for lunar and planetary, saves spending extra money and you could always add another scope later if you get the bug and want to do some wider field stuff

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12 hours ago, DivingRhino said:

"EQ5" is good info... will allow me to search on that.

Budget... I'm thinking AROUND $1000 for mount. I'll have trouble getting much more than that past the boss.

Scope - Hope to 1) mount the DSLRs, 2) mount a scope that would give good detail lunar and planets with an attached dedicated camera OR the DSLRs.

We do intend to go out on our next clear day and use our Nikon D90 and D7200 with Nikkor 18-200, a NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8, and old Spiratone(?!) lens that fits (because Nikon) that's giving me 300+mm. Going to try stacking some lunar shots, as well as some earth landscape/Milky Way sky  type exposures.

The Celestron "AVX" is considered to be an entry-level imaging mount.  It is a go-to EQ5-class mount, which evolved from the manual CG-5(an EQ5-class).  It has lots of bells and whistles for that very thing.  I have a manual EQ5-class mount, this Meade LX70...

finis4c.jpg.152b0bf8211ae62810f8e5fdea7b76aa.jpg

The "AVX" is simply a go-to equipped version of that one, sans the pier, and in black.

However, for the long run, if one anticipates many merry respites whilst imaging under the night sky, one of these would be the better choice...

https://www.telescope.com/Orion-Sirius-EQ-G-Computerized-GoTo-Telescope-Mount/p/116276.uts

It is the same as the HEQ5 Pro, sold in Europe, and the U.S. even, but in white...

https://www.highpointscientific.com/sky-watcher-heq5-equatorial-goto-mount-s30400?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=SKY-S30400&gclid=CjwKCAiAvriMBhAuEiwA8Cs5lXunewcuO0PoNKvdCrOwC3dyHtLrE-g63GOsTa7M4lk37YURZy1pahoC-AwQAvD_BwE

You could say that either one of those is an EQ5.25 or 5.5 class mount.  A bit sturdier than an EQ-5, but still not quite an EQ-6.

When imaging is considered, the mount is of paramount importance.  A camera's sensor is most unforgiving if a mount shakes and wobbles, resulting in blurry images, and to the point that if a telescope and camera could be mounted upon a huge boulder, that would be the ideal.  

A 5" Schmidt would be quite comfortable upon one of those, or a short 80mm triplet refractor.

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