What telescope….

[Murray06]

Hello, new to the forum and star gazing! 

im about to buy a first telescope, but struggling to decide which one to get as there as so many. Ideally wanting to view planets and the moon and have narrowed down the below 3, but willing to look at anything in a similar price range or slightly above if worth it. Ideally this will last a good few years before upgrading. 

Orion StarBlast II 4.5 EQ Reflector and AstroTrack Motor Drive

Orion AstroView 90mm Equatorial Refractor Telescope

Celestron Astromaster 130EQ Reflector Telescope

thanks

 

[Dave scutt]

Hi Murray06.

Welcome to SGL. 

Have you a budget for what you want to buy and is it planets and the moon all would you be looking for dso's aswell. 

I'm sure you will get some great advice lots of knowledgeable people here to help,hope you enjoy your new hobby. 

[Tiny Clanger]

9 minutes ago, Murray06 said:

Hello, new to the forum and star gazing! 

im about to buy a first telescope, but struggling to decide which one to get as there as so many. Ideally wanting to view planets and the moon and have narrowed down the below 3, but willing to look at anything in a similar price range or slightly above if worth it. Ideally this will last a good few years before upgrading. 

Orion StarBlast II 4.5 EQ Reflector and AstroTrack Motor Drive

Orion AstroView 90mm Equatorial Refractor Telescope

Celestron Astromaster 130EQ Reflector Telescope

thanks

 

Hello and welcome 🙂

I did a quick search on some of those 'scopes, and the vendors which came up first were catalogue stores, electrical stores and amazon. If you have around £200 - £250 to spend (as I guess from those models) there are better alternatives available from reliable specialist stores , like https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html which has the astromaster (but not the others I think ). 

If your main idea is to observe the Moon and bright planets, I'd suggest you consider the 102 maksutov, https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/sky-watcher-skymax-102s-az-pronto.html  which has a long focal length packed into a small light tube, so with the same eyepiece it will give you twice as much magnification as, say, the astromaster130eq. The mak. greater magnification (and smaller aperture) means it 'sees' a smaller area of sky, so  while it would be good for planets and the Moon, it is less good as an all round 'scope for DSO's as well. It's not easy to line up  on faint or non-naked eye targets either , but a doddle to line it up with a bright naked eye target.

Heather

 

[Murray06]

Hi Dave, initially the budget was £200, but would be willing to go to £500 if it was really worth it. I think DSOs will be something further down the line as I get more experienced, but would be good to know I could maybe use the same telescope to do that 

[Murray06]

5 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Hello and welcome 🙂

I did a quick search on some of those 'scopes, and the vendors which came up first were catalogue stores, electrical stores and amazon. If you have around £200 - £250 to spend (as I guess from those models) there are better alternatives available from reliable specialist stores , like https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html which has the astromaster (but not the others I think ). 

If your main idea is to observe the Moon and bright planets, I'd suggest you consider the 102 maksutov, https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/sky-watcher-skymax-102s-az-pronto.html  which has a long focal length packed into a small light tube, so with the same eyepiece it will give you twice as much magnification as, say, the astromaster130eq. The mak. greater magnification (and smaller aperture) means it 'sees' a smaller area of sky, so  while it would be good for planets and the Moon, it is less good as an all round 'scope for DSO's as well. It's not easy to line up  on faint or non-naked eye targets either , but a doddle to line it up with a bright naked eye target.

Heather

 

Thanks Heather. I think this was the main reason I joined the forum, to make sure I bought properly and not just look at top 10’s from tech websites. To include DSOs as well what would you suggest? Happy to increase the budget if it’s worth it in the long run as I would rather buy something that will last a few years which I can maybe upgrade via parts rather than a whole telescope. 

[IB20]

There's currently a Heritage 150P dob in the For Sale section for an incredible price. That'll do planets, lunar and DSO work very nicely.

 

 

[Tiny Clanger]

It's a huuge question 🙂 and there are no easy answers !

To help folk give properly focused opinions, it would help if you added some pertinent info:

How much you are willing to spend ? ( be aware there is always something a bit better for a bit more money, this is the top of a slippery slope  you are peering over with interest  ...)

Are you able to store a physically big and/or heavy 'scope, and carry it outside easily to where it will be used ?

What sort of conditions do you hope to observe from ? Deep in the dark countryside, or urban with  streetlight and neighbours flippin' insecurity light  glare, or suburban partial glare ? Garden, balcony , or cart it down the road to a local park ?

Which sort of target is of most interest ? (in a way, this is linked to your location/light pollution, if you have a lot of local artificial  light, then the Moon and brighter planets will be easily visible, DSO's less so)

That's not an exhaustive list, just starting points . You will get plenty of different opinions even with all those parameters specified.  AsI said , huuuge question 🙂

Heather

[Tiny Clanger]

1 minute ago, IB20 said:

There's currently a Heritage 150P dob in the For Sale section for an incredible price. That'll do planets, lunar and DSO work very nicely.

 

 

There is indeed, and I'd agree that the 150 dob is a great beginner 'scope, and the second hand ones on SGL are great bargains, but the new rules mean a member needs a month of membership and (I think , I've not checked) 25 posts to see the sell/swap thread !

[IB20]

Just now, Tiny Clanger said:

There is indeed, and I'd agree that the 150 dob is a great beginner 'scope, and the second hand ones on SGL are great bargains, but the new rules mean a member needs a month of membership and (I think , I've not checked) 25 posts to see the sell/swap thread !

Ahhh, I thought it was just selling that was restricted. Well maybe you'll get lucky and it'll still be available when you've hit your quota @Murray06!

[Murray06]

9 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

It's a huuge question 🙂 and there are no easy answers !

To help folk give properly focused opinions, it would help if you added some pertinent info:

How much you are willing to spend ? ( be aware there is always something a bit better for a bit more money, this is the top of a slippery slope  you are peering over with interest  ...)

Are you able to store a physically big and/or heavy 'scope, and carry it outside easily to where it will be used ?

What sort of conditions do you hope to observe from ? Deep in the dark countryside, or urban with  streetlight and neighbours flippin' insecurity light  glare, or suburban partial glare ? Garden, balcony , or cart it down the road to a local park ?

Which sort of target is of most interest ? (in a way, this is linked to your location/light pollution, if you have a lot of local artificial  light, then the Moon and brighter planets will be easily visible, DSO's less so)

That's not an exhaustive list, just starting points . You will get plenty of different opinions even with all those parameters specified.  AsI said , huuuge question 🙂

Heather

So much I never considered! Glad I’ve come here now. 

willing to spend, I would say £500 would be my max right now    

Can store it in the house no problem and would be taking it outside to a patio which does have a streetlight nearby, but generally very suburban.  

[Tiny Clanger]

1 minute ago, IB20 said:

Ahhh, I thought it was just selling that was restricted. Well maybe you'll get lucky and it'll still be available when you've hit your quota @Murray06!

 I've been chatting by PM to a newbie about various things, alerted them to a sale of something I'd already recommended , and they couldn't see the ad.  Nothing (but an abundance of caution) stopping a seller from PMing a newbie as far as I can see though,  if they chose to ...

[Murray06]

Thanks for letting me know of the rules, but happy to buy new 🙂

[Tiny Clanger]

49 minutes ago, Murray06 said:

So much I never considered! Glad I’ve come here now. 

willing to spend, I would say £500 would be my max right now    

Can store it in the house no problem and would be taking it outside to a patio which does have a streetlight nearby, but generally very suburban.  

That helps !

First thought I'd have is , best reserve maybe £100 for the things you will find you need after a few sessions of using the 'scope... some different eyepieces , a different finder, maybe a Moon filter . No point in buying any of them until you discover any shortcomings in whatever you buy for yourself , so don't worry yet, just budget for some eventual extras. Some 'scopes come with accessories which are best seen as 'get you started' items ...

If you have the storage, and are happy with a purely manual mount I'll agree that a dobsonian  would give the best cost/aperture you can have. A 150mm like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-6-f8-dobsonian.html   or https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html   or https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-6-inch-planetary-dobsonian.html

 would be easily  in your price range.  From what I've read, the stellalyra has better accessories, the  bresser has a smoother operating mount and the skywatcher has ... umm... slightly less cost, and the better known name maybe ? You could even consider the 200mm (8" mirror) skywatcher , which would be within budget, but do check the size and weight of that and be realistic about if you'd be wanting to cart it around. The great thing about a dob is that the hefty solid base means you don't have to spend £££s on a sturdy mount and tripod, without a solid mount even the best telescope will not work well .

I went for a heritage 150 as my first telescope, it has a similar aperture and base to the above ones , but closes down for convenient storage or putting in the car to take somewhere dark or on holiday .   https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/sky-watcher-heritage-150p-flextube-dobsonian-telescope.html

 and the price is very good . If you enjoy tinkering with a bit of easy DIY, there are plenty of simple , low cost modifications to be made on the heritage , just search 'heritage 150 ' on here and you will find lots of info  and a very nice video too.

Drawbacks of the heritage : it needs a table or something to  stand on (my low garden table is cast iron , and too heavy to carry round the garden, so I made a low table from scrap wood ) and the focuser is not wonderful. But for £245 the thing is an astonishing bargain. I can vouch for it's ability to show plenty of DSOs as well as reasonable magnification for the Moon & planets from a suburban back garden 🙂 After 6 months or so I felt the need for more magnification for the moon & planets, so added a maksutov to my collection of 'scopes (a 127 mak, slightly bigger than the one I recommended above) . But if I'm hoping to see DSOs, I always put the heritage 150 out, not the mak.

There's an overwhelming amount of choice in your price range, I'm sure more suggestions will come rolling in !

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tiny Clanger
spelling

[Murray06]

Thanks so much. Excellent info I was hoping for! Will have a think 🙂

[wulfrun]

One thing worth pointing out: all 3 of the OP's intital ideas were EQ mount. Not wishing to patronise but are you familiar with the EQ versus Alt-Az mounts (of which a dobsonian is one variety)? No reason a beginner can't master an EQ of course but an Alt-Az is more intuitive and quicker to set up. A (newtonian) reflector on an EQ can also end up with the eyepiece situated very inconveniently, so it's less than ideal for visual-only.

Just food for thought...

EDIT: welcome to SGL, you'll get heaps of great advice and suggestions and no-one will deride any "silly questions" you might have.

Edited October 5, 2021 by wulfrun

[Murray06]

22 minutes ago, wulfrun said:

One thing worth pointing out: all 3 of the OP's intital ideas were EQ mount. Not wishing to patronise but are you familiar with the EQ versus Alt-Az mounts (of which a dobsonian is one variety)? No reason a beginner can't master an EQ of course but an Alt-Az is more intuitive and quicker to set up. A (newtonian) reflector on an EQ can also end up with the eyepiece situated very inconveniently, so it's less than ideal for visual-only.

Just food for thought...

EDIT: welcome to SGL, you'll get heaps of great advice and suggestions and no-one will deride any "silly questions" you might have.

Hello, thanks for the info, it isn’t something I’ve considered with much thought to be honest. However, the more I now look the more options I see so this forum has been great already

[Andrew_B]

One question that came to mind is whether you'd just want to use the scope for astronomical observing, or if it would also be useful if it could double as a spotting scope.

I use my little refractor for birdwatching as well as taking it out under the night sky and views it gives of birds and wildlife are fantastic. It also means I get more use out of it than I would given the limitations of the British weather and seemingly endless cloud we sometimes have to endure!

If you did want something that was multi-use then a refractor or smaller Maksutov would do the job well but if you just want something for astro then it's hard to beat a Dobsonian for performance and value.

[Cleetus]

I wouldn't spend a lot of money just yet if I were you. Get yourself a pair of binoculars and a decent star atlas and learn your way around the sky. Buy a few books and do some reading. Then, if you are sure you want to proceed, think about a telescope.

Remember, any money spent on a pair of binoculars will not be wasted if you decide astronomy is not for you as you can use these for terrestrial observation. Similarly, if you get bitten by the bug then you will use the binos in future. I would guess that over 90% of members on SGL own at least one pair of binoculars.

Understand the workings of telescope mountings, the pros and cons of each type, so you know what you want before buying anything. Ditto with telescopes. Spending £500 now on a telescope only to discover this hobby is not for you, or you have not chosen wisely, will mean you will have to sell it on. Why put yourself through that if you can avoid it? There are quite a few telescope retailers in the UK but the advice about not buying from places like Amazon is sound. Go to a proper retailer.

Good luck.

[Murray06]

Thanks for all the input. I think the Sky-Watcher Heritage-150P is the current front runner, just need to learn more about the ‘red dot’ as that appears to be the only bad review for it. 

[Spile]

I think the Dobsonian is a great choice. A copy of Turn Left at Orion is highly recommended and keep some budget aside for upgrades. My blog (link below) has some tips you may find useful if you are going down the (sensible) visual route.

[Tiny Clanger]

12 minutes ago, Murray06 said:

Thanks for all the input. I think the Sky-Watcher Heritage-150P is the current front runner, just need to learn more about the ‘red dot’ as that appears to be the only bad review for it. 

The red dot finder is not wonderful, but not terrible either ... I've added an optical finder to my heritage 150, a right angle correct image finder (aka RACI) , you look in the side of it (that's the right angle part of the name ) so it's easier than a straight through finder which at some angles require advanced yoga positions to get behind it . You need to drill holes for a standard shoe to attach the RACI, , but it's not difficult (although I found it rather stressful, making holes in my lovely little dob )

Sometimes the red dot finder (RDF) is useful to line up with a bright object, so I've kept that on the front section of the extending part of the 'scope, and added the RACI on the solid part. As I said earlier, expect to find you identify some upgrades you want to make : for a lot of people, a RACI is a desirable one.

Heather

 

[Nyctimene]

1 hour ago, Murray06 said:

Thanks for all the input. I think the Sky-Watcher Heritage-150P is the current front runner, just need to learn more about the ‘red dot’ as that appears to be the only bad review for it. 

A good choice. You don't have to be afraid of the RDF; it works quite well ( - the same one as with my 130 P Flextube). Perhaps you have to shim it a bit to get it aligned to the OTA. If the red LED is too bright (for DSO's), you can reduce it's brightness by putting a small piece of developed 35 mm film across the LED's exit to dim it adequately (works well with several RDF's in use with my dobs). Together with a wide field eyepiece, e.g. the 24 mmf/68° ES, or it's brother, the 26 mmf/62° LER, you will have enough TFoV (True Field of View) for star hopping.

A lot of questions are answered in the huge thread about the smaller, but elder brother, the Skywatcher Heritage 130 P Flextube - the same scope; here under the brand name "AWB":

www.cloudynights.com/topic/463109-onesky-newtonian-astronomers-without-borders/

Stephan

 

 

[Astro_Dad]

37 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

The red dot finder is not wonderful, but not terrible either ... I've added an optical finder to my heritage 150, a right angle correct image finder (aka RACI) , you look in the side of it (that's the right angle part of the name ) so it's easier than a straight through finder which at some angles require advanced yoga positions to get behind it . You need to drill holes for a standard shoe to attach the RACI, , but it's not difficult (although I found it rather stressful, making holes in my lovely little dob )

Sometimes the red dot finder (RDF) is useful to line up with a bright object, so I've kept that on the front section of the extending part of the 'scope, and added the RACI on the solid part. As I said earlier, expect to find you identify some upgrades you want to make : for a lot of people, a RACI is a desirable one.

Heather

 

@Tiny ClangerVery interested to know a bit more about your RACI mod - did it take long to figure out the exact position for the fitting and any particular tools recommended? Not sure I need it on my Virtuoso but I’d like to look at it as an option - always keen on new DIY mods! Great idea to attach to fixed part of the scope. 

[Tiny Clanger]

1 minute ago, Astro_Dad said:

@Tiny ClangerVery interested to know a bit more about your RACI mod - did it take long to figure out the exact position for the fitting and any particular tools recommended? Not sure I need it on my Virtuoso but I’d like to look at it as an option - always keen on new DIY mods! Great idea to attach to fixed part of the scope. 

Initially I stuck a standard finder shoe on the tube using 'no more nails' permanent sticky pads , partly out of cowardice (about drilling holes) but mostly because I wasn't sure which spot would be ideal for the RACI . both for viewing and for storage : I wanted to leave the RACI on the tube when closed down. I tried it right up near the top,  hard up against the raised metal collar, at a spot which allowed the RACI to sit neatly between the focus tube and the RDF  when the 'scope was closed down.

The pads actually held the heavy 9x50 RACI for about a month before they started to let it wobble a bit, so I peeled them off, decided I couldn't improve on the placement, and removed the primary mirror assembly then extended the front and swathed the secondary in bubble wrap and a plastic bag to keep it safe from any damage. Drilled 2 holes, bolted the shoe on, all sorted . If I had a brain, I'd have done the drilling at the same time as flocking the inside of the tube , and only had to take the primary out once.  I'd actually prefer a 6x30 RACI , the 9x50 seems like overkill and is quite heavy, but the supply of smaller RACIs had dried up  , so the FLO astro essentials 9x50 was the best option available to me. I thought the weight of the RACI might require me to rebalance the 'scope , but it is close enough to the pivot to make little difference.

It's not as convenient an arrangement as having a RACI right by the eyepiece (as you might with a solid dob) , but all you need do is shift your head from the front to the middle of the tube. I'd hate to try using a straight through finder with the heritage, I'd need to lie on the lawn to see through it  

[PeterC65]

About a year ago I was in your position, looking for my first telescope with up to £500 to spend, thinking I wanted to visually observe the Moon and Planets, and maybe some Galaxies and Nebulae. I’m still a newbie to astronomy and have lots to learn, but here are my thoughts …

Always buy kit from a specialist supplier. They will stock better kit and provide good advice and after sales support. I’ve bought most of my kit from First Light Optics. They offer a wider range of kit than most, the website is good (easy to find things), and their prices are as low as it gets. Lots of people have been taking up astronomy since the pandemic (you and I for example) so kit can be on a lead time.

I did masses of research into scopes and mounts before buying, looking mostly at Sky-Watcher kit since it seems decent and good value. I considered their Newtonian reflectors from 130mm up to 250mm and particularly the 150mm, and I looked at all of the mount options, alt-azimuth, equatorial and Dobsonian, both manual and computer controlled. In the end I went for a Skymax 127 SynScan AZ GOTO (https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-skymax-127-synscan-az-goto.html).

I chose this scope because it offered high magnification in a small package with a reasonable aperture size, and this mount because it seemed easy to align and would find objects for me (I’m not that familiar with the heavens).

The Skymax 127 is good for observing the Moon and the Planets. I can see the whole of the Moon’s disc or zoom in (more on that later) to just a part of the edge in shadow. Great views! Of the Planets, I’ve observed Jupiter and Saturn mostly. I can pick out a couple of the dark bands across Jupiter and the moons, but not the Great Red Spot so far. I can see the rings of Saturn and its moons but not the Cassini division. I think I’ve observed Neptune and Uranus but they were just dots, slightly larger and more coloured than a star which is why I think they were these Planets. Mars and Venus haven’t been around at the right time so far.

To observe DSOs many people seem to think you need a different type of scope, with a wider aperture and shorter focal length so that you collect more light and see a wider field of view. But the Skymax should still be able to see DSOs. I have observed Andromeda. It should fill the field of view even with my 40mm eyepiece (more on that later) but I only see a fluffy white blob at its centre that, with some imagination, could be a spiral galaxy! I’ve observed Andromeda several times now, and it does get better each time (a truism of astronomy) but it’s still a fluffy white blob. Last night I was able to observe the Pleiades for the first time and could just make out the suggestion of a cloud hallo around the brightest stars. I’ve had no luck with nebulae so far, even using filters (more on that later).

To be honest, I’ve been a little disappointed by what I’ve been able to observe so far and I’d strongly recommend you read this article before you buy anything, to properly set your expectations about what you might see. Most media images of space objects are from the Hubble Space Telescope and the astrophotography images posted by hobbyists bear no relation to what you can observe visually. If it hadn’t been for the pandemic, I’d have joined a club and looked through some scopes before buying one, and I think doing that would have been a big help with hindsight.

The SynScan AZ GOTO mount works well once you’ve properly figured out how to use it and I’m glad I chose it. I use Stellarium to plan an observing session and to check what I’m supposed to be seeing then the mount will find things accurately enough to put them in the finderscope and from there I can centre them in the main scope. It’s taken me a while to get the setup right. Now I have holes drilled in the patio so that I can reposition the tripod legs accurately and start a new observing session from the mount’s parked position without first having to align it. Equatorial mounts seem to me to be harder to align as you need to find the Pole Star, and Dobsonian mounts need to be ‘nudged’ to keep objects in view (bear in mind that even the slightest touch of the scope or the mount will set it vibrating for a few seconds). With the SynScan AZ GOTO the mount tracks the object and I can then just concentrate on observing it. It’s possible to computerise equatorial and Dobsonian mounts but they then look like a science project with motors, cables and controllers everywhere. The SynScan AZ GOTO is all self-contained but it does have a scope weight limit of about 5kg.

One thing I hadn’t considered before I bought the scope is that observing is not just seeing, it requires real and prolonged concentration. You need to be sat down looking at an object through the eyepiece for several minutes. Astronomy isn’t about whizzing through a bunch of different objects, looking at each one only briefly! I use a kick stool as my observing seat and have posted about that here. It’s really important to have the eyepiece at a comfortable position with respect to your seating position and to do that with the Skymax 127 I cant over the diagonal and eyepiece so that I’m looking into the eyepiece roughly horizontal. This needs adjusting almost every time I reposition the scope (see later comments about barrel clamping). I just don’t know how this can be possible with a Newtonian scope where the eyepiece is often in some odd and none adjustable position. So I’m very glad I bought a Mak where the eyepiece is always in roughly the same place and can be easily repositioned via the diagonal (the same would be true of a refractor scope).

19 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

be aware there is always something a bit better for a bit more money, this is the top of a slippery slope  you are peering over with interest

I have fallen for this big time. I’ve now spent twice what I spent on the scope on additional bits and pieces in the hope that they will improve optical performance or usability! I’ve bought a Baader Zoom eyepiece which is better that the 10mm that came with the scope and the zoom makes it easy to get just the right amount of Moon in view. I’ve bought a Celestron 40mm Omni eyepiece which gives me the widest field of view I can get from the Skymax 127 and has been good for observing the likes of Andromeda. I’ve also bought a range of filters, Skyglow to get rid of light pollution (not been able to try this yet), Neutral Density which is good for dimming a bright Moon, Blue which picks out the dark bands of Jupiter, Red for Mars – when it appears, and a UHC filter to help find those elusive Nebulae (this helped pick out the Pleiades cloud halos). Then to improve usability I’ve bought a rechargeable battery pack so I don’t need to use disposable batteries, a helical focuser as the one on the Skymax 127 is very sensitive, a filter wheel to easily switch between all those filters, and various barrel clamping upgrades mainly to allow easy canting of the diagonal. This has been way over the top but each thing has made a slight difference, but only slight!