EQ8 R Pro or Cem70g?

[Nigella Bryant]

Hi all, I've actually pulled the trigger on the Eq8 R Pro but not in stock so having to wait for stock whenever that'll happen. So now I'm wondering if I should change my order to a Cem70g which is in stock. I'd be mounting either my C11 or 12in f4 Newtonian both weight around 20Kg fully loaded with most things. I know weight isn't everything and momentum is of importance too. Both mount's are roughly the same price and that's my limit. I want new this time as nearly all my equipment is second hand so at my age it would be nice and my last mount. Mount will be housed in my dome. Thanks for your thoughts. 

[vlaiv]

I'd say CEM120?

CEM70 is replacement for CEM60 (and my personal thoughts on that are that iOptron initially gave CEM60 at too low price and would not risk price increase so they withdrew that model and instead released CEM70 at much higher cost) and both are EQ6 class mounts.

CEM120 is equivalent to EQ8 and I'd rather take CEM120 than Eq8. I'd also choose version without encoders as I regularly guide.

[Nigella Bryant]

25 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I'd say CEM120?

CEM70 is replacement for CEM60 (and my personal thoughts on that are that iOptron initially gave CEM60 at too low price and would not risk price increase so they withdrew that model and instead released CEM70 at much higher cost) and both are EQ6 class mounts.

CEM120 is equivalent to EQ8 and I'd rather take CEM120 than Eq8. I'd also choose version without encoders as I regularly guide.

Thanks vlaiv. I understand but I can't go another £1000 on the cem120. Appreciate your input though and just have to wait for the EQ8 R Pro. That was my initial thoughts as well about the cem70 and the reason I went for the EQ8. 

[Sp@ce_d]

I've had an EQ8-Pro running in the obsy for.. wow, 7 years next month looking back at the receipt!.. that went quick. As vlaiv says, The EQ8 will take more weight and the equivalent is the CEM120.  I've done a small amount of tweaking with the backlash on the EQ8, balance for the offset motors & disabled encoders. Thats it, its been in there for 7 years now. The new version doesn't have offset motors or encoders to worry about. I can't really knock it, for the price and performance I've had from it, there was nothing else around that price to carry the weight.

I also have a CEM70 I got in August, for another semi portable setup I'm working on with the 2 Esprit 80's.. (It'll live on a tri-pier under a tele gizmos cover for now). I think the CEM70 will take around 3 KGs more imaging weight than the EQ6 (18kgs), ioptron recommend 2/3rds of the advertised carry load so around 21kgs. Why I got it as my setup is just over 21kg's & would push my NEQ6 a bit far.

I'm still setting things up with it. I've not had much chance/time/clear skies to really get any performance figures from it yet. It seems to guide happy enough so far while I'm testing out the dual imaging rigs anyway. The finish gives a higher quality impression although all my SW mounts are older versions so not seen new ones for a few years. It gives the impression of being less "agricultural" than the SW mounts I have. The integrated ipolar align works quite well, I have a QHY pole master on other mounts and it compares. The goto's seem more accurate straight off a polar align. Although as I use plate solving not really big deal. Couple of things that I notice straight away are the exposed pcb/wiring.. the boards are not enclosed as they are in the SW mounts and the noise. It whines quite loud when slewing & also at a quieter rate when tracking. Don't get me wrong, compared to the bag of bolts the NEQ6 sounds like its not as alarming however, its louder than my EQ8 & my HEQ5 (modded with Rowan belts) is a whisper compared to all. It's the sort of whingy whining that is annoying and carries quite far on a still night! So may be of concern if you have any close neighbours with windows open at night. Mind you as my ears are ageing a lot of sounds in the "wrong" places are annoying me anyway  

Aside from the price if I now had to choose between an EQ8 or a CEM120 (I'd be looking at Mesu in reality, probably though) I'd lean towards the CEM120 route. Purely because my CEM70 comes over as a nice newer more refined mount. No regrets getting it however I don't have the long term experience with iOptron as I do with SW and the EQ8 has been delivering for me for 7 years. I do wonder If the CEM70 will still be going in 7 years with those more exposed pcb boards.. but then again more airflow to dry out.. who knows.

If you can't wait for the EQ8 the CEM70 will probably carry your load ok as its about the same as mine and so far seems ok. You will be on the limit though I suspect. You have a dome so shouldn't be too worried about the sail effect of the newt. I did have to add another weight. I used a spare 10kg EQ8 one I had & even then they're just past halfway down the bar. I'm tempted to add more to get it higher up for the momentum as you say but I need to get the rest running properly first.

It's always a big tradeoff unless availability & money is not an issue! Do you jump on what's available now and make do or wait who knows how long? All I can say is, I jumped on the CEM70EC because it was all that was available & I was panicking a bit thinking nothing else would come up & I'd not get anything else till next year.. missing a season effectively. However, in reality I've only had 2 clear nights & one of those was full Moon. Plus, FLO got more mounts in anyway & I'd have gone for a non encoder version.  I blame them for my actions after posting that "get your mounts now before they're all gone" in August. 🤨.. now you'll have to excuse me.. I need to order more loo roll and go drive around filling up petrol cans.. just in case I buy another car 😆

[Nigella Bryant]

50 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

I've had an EQ8-Pro running in the obsy for.. wow, 7 years next month looking back at the receipt!.. that went quick. As vlaiv says, The EQ8 will take more weight and the equivalent is the CEM120.  I've done a small amount of tweaking with the backlash on the EQ8, balance for the offset motors & disabled encoders. Thats it, its been in there for 7 years now. The new version doesn't have offset motors or encoders to worry about. I can't really knock it, for the price and performance I've had from it, there was nothing else around that price to carry the weight.

I also have a CEM70 I got in August, for another semi portable setup I'm working on with the 2 Esprit 80's.. (It'll live on a tri-pier under a tele gizmos cover for now). I think the CEM70 will take around 3 KGs more imaging weight than the EQ6 (18kgs), ioptron recommend 2/3rds of the advertised carry load so around 21kgs. Why I got it as my setup is just over 21kg's & would push my NEQ6 a bit far.

I'm still setting things up with it. I've not had much chance/time/clear skies to really get any performance figures from it yet. It seems to guide happy enough so far while I'm testing out the dual imaging rigs anyway. The finish gives a higher quality impression although all my SW mounts are older versions so not seen new ones for a few years. It gives the impression of being less "agricultural" than the SW mounts I have. The integrated ipolar align works quite well, I have a QHY pole master on other mounts and it compares. The goto's seem more accurate straight off a polar align. Although as I use plate solving not really big deal. Couple of things that I notice straight away are the exposed pcb/wiring.. the boards are not enclosed as they are in the SW mounts and the noise. It whines quite loud when slewing & also at a quieter rate when tracking. Don't get me wrong, compared to the bag of bolts the NEQ6 sounds like its not as alarming however, its louder than my EQ8 & my HEQ5 (modded with Rowan belts) is a whisper compared to all. It's the sort of whingy whining that is annoying and carries quite far on a still night! So may be of concern if you have any close neighbours with windows open at night. Mind you as my ears are ageing a lot of sounds in the "wrong" places are annoying me anyway  

Aside from the price if I now had to choose between an EQ8 or a CEM120 (I'd be looking at Mesu in reality, probably though) I'd lean towards the CEM120 route. Purely because my CEM70 comes over as a nice newer more refined mount. No regrets getting it however I don't have the long term experience with iOptron as I do with SW and the EQ8 has been delivering for me for 7 years. I do wonder If the CEM70 will still be going in 7 years with those more exposed pcb boards.. but then again more airflow to dry out.. who knows.

If you can't wait for the EQ8 the CEM70 will probably carry your load ok as its about the same as mine and so far seems ok. You will be on the limit though I suspect. You have a dome so shouldn't be too worried about the sail effect of the newt. I did have to add another weight. I used a spare 10kg EQ8 one I had & even then they're just past halfway down the bar. I'm tempted to add more to get it higher up for the momentum as you say but I need to get the rest running properly first.

It's always a big tradeoff unless availability & money is not an issue! Do you jump on what's available now and make do or wait who knows how long? All I can say is, I jumped on the CEM70EC because it was all that was available & I was panicking a bit thinking nothing else would come up & I'd not get anything else till next year.. missing a season effectively. However, in reality I've only had 2 clear nights & one of those was full Moon. Plus, FLO got more mounts in anyway & I'd have gone for a non encoder version.  I blame them for my actions after posting that "get your mounts now before they're all gone" in August. 🤨.. now you'll have to excuse me.. I need to order more loo roll and go drive around filling up petrol cans.. just in case I buy another car 😆

Thanks very much for your insights, very helpful. I'm not in a hurry but I'm thinking it might be another year. I've got my C11 on an old neq6 so it's at it's limit but will be fine for now. I've even had the Newtonian on it, lol. I guess I have to be patient, lol. The cem70 would be at the limit for AP. I appreciate your time and insights from personal experience.

[tomato]

I would agree the EQ8 load capacity equivalent mount from the Ioptron range would be the 120.

I suggested the 120 to @Tomatobro, who is also waiting for EQ8R stock, but after deliberating he has opted to wait for the EQ8R to become available.

[Tomatobro]

Flo have a couple of CEM120's in stock but at £1k more than the EQ8-r (its price might change once stock is available). I really like  EQMOD and am so used to its features going to the CEM120 would mean I would loose this. Also 4k for the 120 is much closer to the MESU so I guess if I give up waiting for the EQ8-r then the MESU would be my choice.

[Sp@ce_d]

Theres not really anything to rival the EQ8 for capacity at that price. Which makes me wonder what the new stock will actually come in at.

I've used EQMod just about forever & was a bit daunted by getting to know something else but the iOptron Commander seems great.. if only for having so many "pre-cooked" parking positions in addition to custom & it does feel a bit familiar in some ways .. nothing to be worried about if that's a sucking point for you. I always have an ip camera to keep an eye on things in the obsy, sometimes after a win10 update for instance it can loose ascom home position & I need to remotely re home it. With the iOptron so far its been rock solid.. to the point I'm not looking out the window to make sure it going where I sent it!.. Currently setting up another ip cam to monitor it but then again I can hear it's whine so can tell if its moving.. unexpectedly 🤔

I've left the EQ8 running on an older version of EQMod.. if it ain't broke. I know its a bit long in the tooth & last I knew Chris was the only one maintaining it. I didn't join the new group when they closed down google groups so not kept up. I've heard good things about GSS (Green Swamp) I was going to test it out over summer but didn't get a chance.

[Nigella Bryant]

3 hours ago, tomato said:

I would agree the EQ8 load capacity equivalent mount from the Ioptron range would be the 120.

I suggested the 120 to @Tomatobro, who is also waiting for EQ8R stock, but after deliberating he has opted to wait for the EQ8R to become available.

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Nigella Bryant]

3 hours ago, Tomatobro said:

Flo have a couple of CEM120's in stock but at £1k more than the EQ8-r (its price might change once stock is available). I really like  EQMOD and am so used to its features going to the CEM120 would mean I would loose this. Also 4k for the 120 is much closer to the MESU so I guess if I give up waiting for the EQ8-r then the MESU would be my choice.

Thanks, like me then, probably need the patients of a saint, lol.

[Nigella Bryant]

2 hours ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Theres not really anything to rival the EQ8 for capacity at that price. Which makes me wonder what the new stock will actually come in at.

I've used EQMod just about forever & was a bit daunted by getting to know something else but the iOptron Commander seems great.. if only for having so many "pre-cooked" parking positions in addition to custom & it does feel a bit familiar in some ways .. nothing to be worried about if that's a sucking point for you. I always have an ip camera to keep an eye on things in the obsy, sometimes after a win10 update for instance it can loose ascom home position & I need to remotely re home it. With the iOptron so far its been rock solid.. to the point I'm not looking out the window to make sure it going where I sent it!.. Currently setting up another ip cam to monitor it but then again I can hear it's whine so can tell if its moving.. unexpectedly 🤔

I've left the EQ8 running on an older version of EQMod.. if it ain't broke. I know its a bit long in the tooth & last I knew Chris was the only one maintaining it. I didn't join the new group when they closed down google groups so not kept up. I've heard good things about GSS (Green Swamp) I was going to test it out over summer but didn't get a chance.

Thanks again, much appreciated conversation.

[newbie alert]

I don't see value for money on the cem 70, I own a cem 60 and it's pretty awesome, I didn't see the value in the 70 much that I preferred the colour..

When I was looking the 60 was £1699

The 120 was £2500 ish

The 70 on release was £2350

I know prices have changed now but at the time the 70 didn't seem like value for money

So in your shoes I'd go Eq8 r pro if the 120 is out of budget 

[Nigella Bryant]

22 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

I don't see value for money on the cem 70, I own a cem 60 and it's pretty awesome, I didn't see the value in the 70 much that I preferred the colour..

When I was looking the 60 was £1699

The 120 was £2500 ish

The 70 on release was £2350

I know prices have changed now but at the time the 70 didn't seem like value for money

So in your shoes I'd go Eq8 r pro if the 120 is out of budget 

Many thanks, I'm going to stick with my original plan and go with the Eq8. 

[Neil27]

Hi Nigella,

An interesting review here > https://philhart.com/skywatcher-eq8-rh

This one is with the encoders but the review gives a flavour of what you may expect.

HTH.

[Tomatobro]

8 hours ago, Nigella Bryant said:

Many thanks, I'm going to stick with my original plan and go with the Eq8. 

And sooner than you expected........with a bit of luck👍

[Nigella Bryant]

28 minutes ago, Tomatobro said:

And sooner than you expected........with a bit of luck👍

Hopefully, I do hope so, lol. 

[Nigella Bryant]

Eq8 r pro mount has been shipped, yay, lol. 

[Tomatobro]

Mine arrived this morning.... And some wood to help with the heating bills.....

"gonna need a bigger boat right chief"

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tomatobro
update

[Nigella Bryant]

3 minutes ago, Tomatobro said:

Mine arrived this morning.... And some wood to help with the heating bills.....

"gonna need a bigger boat right chief"

Cool. Wow, that's a big box, lol. Mine is due tomorrow. Might need lifting gear, lol. 

[Sp@ce_d]

Oh brilliant that was quicker than I thought bet you’ve glad you didn’t change mind. Storage of the flight case is the next thing.. mine became a very handy table in the obsy 😁

[Nigella Bryant]

21 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

Oh brilliant that was quicker than I thought bet you’ve glad you didn’t change mind. Storage of the flight case is the next thing.. mine became a very handy table in the obsy 😁

I know, as for the flight case, probably go in the loft, never to be seen again, a bit like a black hole, lol. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Nigella Bryant
Added comment

[tomato]

Aw c'mon, you know it's a portable mount really...😆

[Nigella Bryant]

6 minutes ago, tomato said:

Aw c'mon, you know it's a portable mount really...😆

You mean to say I've bought this and it's not portable? Lol. 

[tomato]

I took my Mesu to the SGL star party back in 2018, with a little 100mm APO on it. However I wasn't retired back then, but I still have the flightcase if  I ever feel up to it.

I've just checked, the Mesu Mk 2 weighs in at 17 kg against the EQ8-R's 25 kg, so you really do have the heavy weight, I would get some help lifting it onto the pier.

[Nigella Bryant]

1 minute ago, tomato said:

I took my Mesu to the SGL star party back in 2018, with a little 100mm APO on it. However I wasn't retired back then, but I still have the flightcase if  I ever feel up to it.

I've just checked, the Mesu Mk 2 weighs in at 17 kg against the EQ8-R's 25 kg, so you really do have the heavy weight, I would get some help lifting it onto the pier.

Thanks tomato, I figured I'd need help to put it on my pier. Good job I'd future proofed the pier and the plates when I built it, lol.