KStars/Ekos New Release

[malc-c]

36 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

Asking Linux developers to make a Windows equivalent is a bit unfair since the other way around has not worked well.

Steve, I can't see that as being unfair... There have been many an occasion where I've seen screen shots of applications only to find that they are Mac OS only, or Linux only.  And I dare say there are many windows only applications as well.  Maybe the reasons are due to the complexity of writing drivers for a particular platform, and they felt that they would rather keep it one platform specific rather than port an incomplete cross-platform application.  Can you imagine the stick Adobe would get if the Mac version of Premier lacked the ability to render the assembled video

Maybe your comment about unpaid work is more the reason why ? 

Interesting discussion guys... and maybe at some point in the future we may see Kstars / Ekos natively support ASCOM... but for now I have to stay with CDC / EQASCOM / PHD2 / APT for my imaging needs

[adyj1]

1 hour ago, malc-c said:

but for me (as I stated  above) I can't see the point in porting an application to Windows and then handicap it buy effectively disabling  one main aspect of the application and that is equipment control.  Especially as us windows users tend to expect all the functionality to work right out of the box

Hehehehe - you said you understood client/server and then said that they have 'handicapped' the client by not updating the server. They went from being linux client /linux server, to windows-or-linux client/linux server. There are plenty of people who are happy with this new option, so a big thumbs-up to the devs 🙂 I can't see how this is a handicap.

It can read that you're saying they shouldn't have because it's of no use to you...

(I already covered the 'us windows users tend to expect' earlier... 😉 )  

[JonCarleton]

ALPACA seems a backward project to me.  It lets a Linux or MAC connect to a computer running Windows and ASCOM drivers.  I can't imagine ever wanting to do that.  I suppose it might make sense if you were running a Windows-based NUC box with drivers on the telescope, but then, I'm perfectly happy with Pi's running Linux doing my device control. 

Linux/UNIX was designed for distributed computing from the outset.  Now, running a Windows box for overall operations with remote Linux computers running INDI drivers...that makes since if one is a a Windows user.  But, Windows software with that capability, and not just KStars, has been around a while.

[wornish]

Well I seem to have started some discussion that's for sure.  

All I did was say a new release was available😀

[Len1257]

On 17/09/2021 at 07:36, wornish said:

Kstars 3.5.5 has just been released. Lots of new features.

https://edu.kde.org/kstars/#download

Have you actually got it on your Astroberry though? Went through the update process ( sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt dist-upgrade) but Kstars still reporting version 3.5.4 Stable. Am I missing something in the upgrade route?

[gilesco]

3 minutes ago, Len1257 said:

Have you actually got it on your Astroberry though? Went through the update process ( sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt dist-upgrade) but Kstars still reporting version 3.5.4 Stable. Am I missing something in the upgrade route?

Astroberry does not update with the frequency that Kstars does. The kstars package for Astroberry only updates when the Astroberry maintainer chooses to do so.

If you want to run the bleeding edge kstars on Astroberry then you will need to compile it yourself from the source code. I would recommend backing up your SD card before you try this, as getting back to the maintainers version is not that easy.

[Len1257]

Yep, I guessed as much. Had too many issues with Astroberry last year but would give it another go if they have sorted out some of them. Had hours of good results but then hours of head-banging as well.

[AstroMuni]

On 19/09/2021 at 01:59, Paul M said:

I too liked KStars and Co. But had nothing but misery trying to use a Pi 4 and then later using a mini PC running Ubuntu. That was less than 12 months ago.

Sad to hear that. I run Kstars on my PC (running Linux) and connect to RPi with the Astroberry image which runs the INDI server. Works beautifully. The PC connects to RPi using ethernet cable.

[Paul M]

1 hour ago, AstroMuni said:

Sad to hear that. I run Kstars on my PC (running Linux) and connect to RPi with the Astroberry image which runs the INDI server. Works beautifully. The PC connects to RPi using ethernet cable.

Yup, been there done that. 

I had a long running thread on my Pi issues then another about Ubuntu on a Mini PC.

To be honest I didn't persevere very long with Ubuntu. It took long enough getting it to run headlessly (boot hangs if it can't detect a monitor), then after a few failed imaging sessions I binned it. I didn't want to waste another season on imaging hardware/software issues so installed W10 on the mini PC and ran all the same hardware flawlessly with APT and PHD2.

[Stuart1971]

On 18/09/2021 at 09:36, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Does it work on Windows really ?
I know the actual planetarium works on Windows but how then does it control the equipment as normally would use EKOS with INDI server, I didn't think EKOS worked on Windows (or does it ?).

Steve

Steve,

Kstars / Ekos DOES run on windows, but it’s INdI that does not, so the INdI driver server runs on the RPI and the PC with Kstars on will use those drivers over your network and run from the PC….simples….

This is how many people run it…HTH 

[Stuart1971]

On 19/09/2021 at 10:06, malc-c said:

I installed the latest version last night and all I got was pop up stating "not supported" when I tried to connect to EQASCOM, or set up an INDI service under windows.

If I follow this correctly, I need a Pi or a PC running Linux with INDI installed as a server.  Then on the Windows PC with the Windows version of KStars installed I have to RDC into the Pi for it to do all the work and then send data back to the PC.  IF that is the case then it's hardly an ideal solution.  

Does anyone know why the developers wrote / ported an application to run natively on a Windows platform, but not use the recognised ASCOM standard that was developed to do the same job INDI does on a Linux machine.  I remember raising this point when KStars was in its infancy, and it was suggested that it was just a matter of time... but here we are years later and nothing has changed.   IMO if a developer writes an application for one OS or another, then that program should work out of the box with any associated applications or equipment, and use the accepted standards such as ASCOM.  For me its like having a new car delivered only to find it has no engine.  All the lights and dials work but you can't go anywhere.

Dave, I look forward to some detail instruction on how to run KStars on my Windows 10 PC and communicate with EQMOD without the need for additional hardware... and if you have any links to the reasons ASCOM is not supported under the Windows version of Kstars that would be great.

No, you have this all wrong…

You load Kstars / Ekos on your PC

Ypu have an RPI with the INdI sever or easier just put the free Astroberry on, it includes all you need

Then open Ekos on your PC and create a user profile with all your kit

Make sure you have the rpi server address in the box, so that would be astroberry.local and click “ remote” so it k kw to look on your network for the server

Then save and close and just use the Kstar / Ekos software on your PC ….. simples….and takes 5 mins to set up…

[gilesco]

14 hours ago, Paul M said:

Yup, been there done that. 

I had a long running thread on my Pi issues then another about Ubuntu on a Mini PC.

To be honest I didn't persevere very long with Ubuntu. It took long enough getting it to run headlessly (boot hangs if it can't detect a monitor), then after a few failed imaging sessions I binned it. I didn't want to waste another season on imaging hardware/software issues so installed W10 on the mini PC and ran all the same hardware flawlessly with APT and PHD2.

I run Kstars on a PC (either Windows or Linux) and INDI on the Pi4 - it works rather flawlessly most of the time.

Having said that I've been running Linux for many years, and have got used to working out all the little 'gotchas' that will hit a lesser Linux experienced person along the way. I'm not sure I would recommend the build-your-own method with INDI to a non-expert, and would usually either steer them towards an off-the-shelf commercial product (which many times is still running Linux under the hood, but has been packaged and QA'd to work well), or get them to use the operating system that they are already used to, and know how to fix the usual problems.

[malc-c]

But your missing the point.  In order to run the free software I have to purchase a raspberry pi to complete the puzzle, and then run INDI on that.  Granted it's a fix....but then so would be having the windows version of Kstars / Ekos ASCOM compliant

[Stuart1971]

9 minutes ago, malc-c said:

But your missing the point.  In order to run the free software I have to purchase a raspberry pi to complete the puzzle, and then run INDI on that.  Granted it's a fix....but then so would be having the windows version of Kstars / Ekos ASCOM compliant

Or having INdI windows compliant…😉 which I would prefer and it’s far more stable than Ascom…

[StevieDvd]

29 minutes ago, malc-c said:

But your missing the point.  In order to run the free software I have to purchase a raspberry pi to complete the puzzle, and then run INDI on that.  Granted it's a fix....but then so would be having the windows version of Kstars / Ekos ASCOM compliant

A better comparison is a Drone with software only on Mac, they add the same software to Windows as requested by users. You don't get a free drone if you install the Windows version 😀

[alacant]

Hi everyone

Maybe this will help visualise?

Here is a photo of a Dell computer. It cost €80. It runs indi, ekos and kstars. It just works. All night. No rpi. No windows. Anywhere. 

You can sit next to it and use the touchpad and keyboard or control it from anywhere there's a connection to Internet using your 'phone, a tablet...

Cheers

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by alacant

[qisback]

On 23/09/2021 at 13:55, Len1257 said:

Have you actually got it on your Astroberry though? Went through the update process ( sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt dist-upgrade) but Kstars still reporting version 3.5.4 Stable. Am I missing something in the upgrade route?

I would suspect that you're not using the kstars repository so the update hasn't been upstreamed to the Astroberry distribution (this normally takes a few days).

https://www.astroberry.io/repo/pool/main/k/kstars-bleeding/

Seems to still reference 3.5.4 as the latest as of 16/7/21

 

If you don't want to wait, you can add the kstars repository by running as below:

Dragons be here, please backup your sdcard, etc (personally I use borg backup before each change)

 

sudo apt-add-repository ppa:mutlaqja/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install indi-full kstars-bleeding

 

I've just done this on both Stellarmate and Astroberry both fine.

However it actually looks like Stellarmate updated the repo on the 23/09/21

https://ppa.stellarmate.com/repos/apt/stable/pool/main/k/kstars-bleeding/

 

[Stuart1971]

On 23/09/2021 at 13:55, Len1257 said:

Have you actually got it on your Astroberry though? Went through the update process ( sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt dist-upgrade) but Kstars still reporting version 3.5.4 Stable. Am I missing something in the upgrade route?

No your not missing anything, the AB author @RadekKdoes not update his repository until he feels that the new version is bug free, so he waits a while for the bugs and issues to be sorted, and then updates it, so AB is always a good few weeks behind, which I think is a good thing….👍🏼

[Paul M]

1 hour ago, gilesco said:

I run Kstars on a PC (either Windows or Linux) and INDI on the Pi4 - it works rather flawlessly most of the time.

Having said that I've been running Linux for many years, and have got used to working out all the little 'gotchas' that will hit a lesser Linux experienced person along the way. I'm not sure I would recommend the build-your-own method with INDI to a non-expert, and would usually either steer them towards an off-the-shelf commercial product (which many times is still running Linux under the hood, but has been packaged and QA'd to work well), or get them to use the operating system that they are already used to, and know how to fix the usual problems.

Don't get me wrong, I had KStars/EKos running nicely on Ubuntu. I really did like Ubuntu and, as with the Astroberry/Pi system, it all worked in my lounge for hours on end. But in the field the Pi just crashed and froze constantly to the point of being unusable. The Ubuntu system only got 2 chances and each time subs failed to complete. Never got a  single image out of it.

Anyway, it's already been gone over a million times. You name it, I tried it with the Pi.

 

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, Stuart1971 said:

Or having INdI windows compliant…😉 which I would prefer and it’s far more stable than Ascom…

That would work.... 😉

The point I was trying to make way back was that in an ideal world developers that port an application to be cross platform should IMO encompass whatever standards that OS use to give full functionality.  Now if the developers of INDI  made a fully compliant windows version that indeed would make life a lot easier, especially for the developers of Kstars etc....

@StevieDvd  One day you can pop round, we'll image the observatory PC so I can go back to windows in needed, and then you can wipe it and get it up and running under Linux / INDI  and show me how easy this is   

[Steve in Boulder]

5 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

No, you have this all wrong…

You load Kstars / Ekos on your PC

Ypu have an RPI with the INdI sever or easier just put the free Astroberry on, it includes all you need

Then open Ekos on your PC and create a user profile with all your kit

Make sure you have the rpi server address in the box, so that would be astroberry.local and click “ remote” so it k kw to look on your network for the server

Then save and close and just use the Kstar / Ekos software on your PC ….. simples….and takes 5 mins to set up…

Thanks, very helpful!  I've just loaded Astroberry onto my RPi and was trying out VNC, but this is clearly a better way.  Do I need to do anything on the RPi to configure or start the INDI server?  Or do I just plug in all my gear and configure on my laptop from the client side?

[Stuart1971]

30 minutes ago, Steve in Boulder said:

Thanks, very helpful!  I've just loaded Astroberry onto my RPi and was trying out VNC, but this is clearly a better way.  Do I need to do anything on the RPi to configure or start the INDI server?  Or do I just plug in all my gear and configure on my laptop from the client side?

Make sure your PC and RPI are in the same network, then in the ekos profile on your windows PC, select “remote” and put “Astroberry.local” in the box, and save, then when you start the profile and and connect in ekos, it will know where the INdI server is and use it as if it was all on the same PC….👍🏼

[Steve in Boulder]

8 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Make sure your PC and RPI are in the same network, then in the ekos profile on your windows PC, select “remote” and put “Astroberry.local” in the box, and save, then when you start the profile and and connect in ekos, it will know where the INdI server is and use it as if it was all on the same PC….👍🏼

Gotcha.  Currently my RPi is creating its own WiFi network, called "Astroberry."  I can connect to it from my laptop by joining that network, but I lose Internet connectivity.  Is there a way to have the RPi join my home network and allow me to connect through that?

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, Steve in Boulder said:

Gotcha.  Currently my RPi is creating its own WiFi network, called "Astroberry."  I can connect to it from my laptop by joining that network, but I lose Internet connectivity.  Is there a way to have the RPi join my home network and allow me to connect through that?

Yes, on the PI just choose your home network from the list, from network icon in top right of screen,  and enter password, then reboot the RPI and it should connect to that first..

[Stuart1971]

Just now, Stuart1971 said:

Yes, on the PI just choose your home network from the list, from network icon in top right of screen,  and enter password, then reboot the RPI and it should connect to that first..

 

3 minutes ago, Steve in Boulder said:

Gotcha.  Currently my RPi is creating its own WiFi network, called "Astroberry."  I can connect to it from my laptop by joining that network, but I lose Internet connectivity.  Is there a way to have the RPi join my home network and allow me to connect through that?

Or just use the Astroberry hotspot, as you don’t need Internet if both pc and rpi are connected….