View finding HELP needed please

[Mach13]

Ok so I had my very first opportunity to see what I could see of Jupiter and Saturn yesterday evening.  I have a Skymax 127 (AZ mount) with an ZWO 224 and a red dot finder.

 

I found it incredibly hard to locate the little beasties on my viewscreen (Laptop)  Once I had them aligned as best i could with the red dot, I found myself just blindly moving the synscan up down and about in the hope id see it pop onto the screen view...

I have a few obstacles around my garden which make for having to relocate from time to time, so view finding became a bit of a curse...

I had all sorts of trouble with dew (I've now ordered a heater, power pack and shield for that) so some lessons learned and I might try a 2x barlow to get a bigger and hopefully clearer image, but that makes me think view finding is going to become even more difficult..

 

Re images i got (which i'm pleased with considering the difficulty I had) I  haven't bother stacking  the image below is just a single frame of each but i'm hoping for better things once my dew heater etal arrive..  If i get another chance anytime soon

 

Any tips on view finding folks?

[AKB]

11 minutes ago, Mach13 said:

Any tips on view finding folks?

Flip mirror and zoom eyepiece are useful tools.  Find it easily in the wide view, zoom in and keep centering, then flip to the camera.

[wookie1965]

Make sure you align the scope first on a bright star then align the red dot. 

My Telrad was out the other night so I could not see Saturn I managed to get Saturn in my eyepiece then I adjusted the Telrad so when I went to Jupiter it was dead centre in the Telrad and also in the eyepiece. 

[Pixies]

Just for comparison. the FOV for this combo is similar to using a 6mm Plossl (x250)

Not surprised you are having trouble landing on it, even with a GoTo.

Even without a flip mirror, with the AZGti mount  tracking the target, can you centre on it using a wide-field EP first, then switch to the cam?

 

[Mach13]

19 minutes ago, AKB said:

Flip mirror and zoom eyepiece are useful tools.  Find it easily in the wide view, zoom in and keep centering, then flip to the camera.

Ahah that seems a very useful tool for my needs... Just found one and ordered it.... Whoop whoop!  Thanks so much!

[Mach13]

16 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

Make sure you align the scope first on a bright star then align the red dot. 

My Telrad was out the other night so I could not see Saturn I managed to get Saturn in my eyepiece then I adjusted the Telrad so when I went to Jupiter it was dead centre in the Telrad and also in the eyepiece. 

Thanks.... I've ordered a flip mirror , but will defo give that a go in the meantime... not sure why i didn't think of that, but then i often find myself in a (slightly panicky ) race against time to find and lock on before the neighbour's chimney pot, (and various trees) get in the way  🤣  he wont move it so i have to move location... 😅  Perhaps if i line up on the top edge of the red dot... (Saturn doesn't show through mine) that will be a useful reference point.... will try it tonight if a get a chance...  👍

[Mach13]

22 minutes ago, Pixies said:

Just for comparison. the FOV for this combo is similar to using a 6mm Plossl (x250)

 

Not surprised you are having trouble landing on it, even with a GoTo.

Even without a flip mirror, with the AZGti mount  tracking the target, can you centre on it using a wide-field EP first, then switch to the cam?

 

Thanks ..... think I will have a play on astro tools to see what else i can come up with...  👍

[Cosmic Geoff]

For bright planets I use a GoTo mount to initially find the planet, then centre it in the eyepiece and then remove the eyepiece and fit the camera and acquire and focus the planet using the full camera pixels (e.g. 1304x976 px), and then reduce the field to e.g 320x244 to take video without wasting storage and slowing the frame rate.

If I need to re-acquire the planet I use a 9x50 RACI finder and the full camera pixels.  I don't think a red dot finder would be good enough as even the 9x50 barely gives enough magnification.

I only use my flip mirror for faint objects, e.g Uranus, Neptune or plantary nebulae.

Note that you need to use the ASI224MC with an IR-cut filter to get the correct colour balance.

If you don't have a dew shield, you should buy or make one. A dew shield should be regarded as standard equipment on a Mak or SCT, just as on refractors. (The manufacturers don't want to provide one purely for marketing reasons - makes their product look long and ugly).  I have not bothered with dew heaters as yet.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Cosmic Geoff

[Mach13]

26 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

For bright planets I use a GoTo mount to initially find the planet, then centre it in the eyepiece and then remove the eyepiece and fit the camera and acquire and focus the planet using the full camera pixels (e.g. 1304x976 px), and then reduce the field to e.g 320x244 to take video without wasting storage and slowing the frame rate.

If I need to re-acquire the planet I use a 9x50 RACI finder and the full camera pixels.  I don't think a red dot finder would be good enough as even the 9x50 barely gives enough magnification.

I only use my flip mirror for faint objects, e.g Uranus, Neptune or plantary nebulae.

Note that you need to use the ASI224MC with an IR-cut filter to get the correct colour balance.

If you don't have a dew shield, you should buy or make one. A dew shield should be regarded as standard equipment on a Mak or SCT, just as on refractors. (The manufacturers don't want to provide one purely for marketing reasons - makes their product look long and ugly).  I have not bothered with dew heaters as yet.

Some great tips here thanks....  esp on video settings and IR cut filter...  I've already ordered a shield and dew heater together with a power pack as I'm always finding something will inevitably run low on power just as things start to get interesting.. so for me worth the investment in terms of the number of times I actually get a clear sky + objects high enough to see + getting enough heads up to be ready in time and not chasing my tail to get set up.....  as winter is on its way i'd rather be prep'd

 

Appreciate your comments... very helpful

[Mach13]

thanks for the comments to date.. been a great help

 

I've also come across illuminated reticle eyepieces, anyone use tried them for this purpose?

 

They don't seem expensive if they safe alot of aimless sky searching

[Mach13]

Have to say the illuminated reticule eyepiece is a real lifesaver when paired with a diagonal flip mirror.... now I just need an auto focuser motor (on order)

Jupiter BEST 22_17_26_pipp (2).bmp

[AstroMuni]

On 09/09/2021 at 10:56, Mach13 said:

Once I had them aligned as best i could with the red dot, I found myself just blindly moving the synscan up down and about in the hope id see it pop onto the screen view...

The solution to align your finder to the scope is definite must do as this will help you long run.

If your mount is a Go-to I suggest you use your laptop to control it. That gives you the ability to platesolve and the software will automatically centre your object in your Fov. I use Kstars/Ekos (free) and an RPi to manage the mount, camera etc. But you can use others like NINA (free) and a few other paid ones like SGPro.

Edited September 30, 2021 by AstroMuni

[Mach13]

18 hours ago, AstroMuni said:

If your mount is a Go-to I suggest you use your laptop to control it. That gives you the ability to platesolve and the software will automatically centre your object in your Fov. I use Kstars/Ekos (free) and an RPi to manage the mount, camera etc. But you can use others like NINA (free) and a few other paid ones like SGPro.

Hmm plate-solving 🤔 Not really looked into it... Thanks will have a think about that..  In the meantime i'm ok finding things now for imaging... The flip mirror and the illuminated reticule are amazing aids

[Peter_D]

Another thing to help find Jupiter is to maximise the gain on your camera - if the planet is just out of the field of view, you can usually see the brightness of the planet spilling into the fov.

[Mach13]

Great tip thanks

[Gfamily]

On 01/10/2021 at 16:26, Peter_D said:

Another thing to help find Jupiter is to maximise the gain on your camera - if the planet is just out of the field of view, you can usually see the brightness of the planet spilling into the fov.

Significantly de-focusing can do the same.

It's how I first managed to get Jupiter centred on the webcam sensor - if it was the plan from the outset, I'd be thinking how clever I was; but in fact it was a case of 'I had <roughly> centred it in the eyepiece, and then swapped out the EP for the modded webcam' ;  so, massively out of focus, which meant that light from Jupiter was bleeding onto the chip - enough for me to slew in the right direction.