Home Observatories UK

[dweller25]

It’s not what people say it’s what they actually do, and HOUK are not doing what they say.

[iantaylor2uk]

Can't they be reported to trading standards?

[Stuart1971]

2 minutes ago, iantaylor2uk said:

Can't they be reported to trading standards?

Funny you should say that, I was just about to ask something similar.

‘People have been complaining of here for a long time, and yet the company is still trading as normal, they should have legally been taken to court by now and shut down….if it was me that had lost the amounts of money we are talking about, I would have moved heaven and earth to sort this out, this has gone on far to long, do they have a published business address, if so get there and bang on the door, and get a face to face meet at least…

Talking about it on here is not getting anybody anywhere with them…it’s time for some legal action…

 

[gilesco]

20 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

do they have a published business address

No, they used to say they were at some industrial estate, but someone has been there, and others have looked on google maps and they don't appear to have a unit there.

We need to be careful about "bashing" suppliers on this forum as I believe there are rules about this in the T&Cs. I would recommend that anyone who has an issue with these people that you get together and collectively take action privately.

This could be by means of a CCJ, Debt Collection agencies etc... etc... They have the experience and means of tracking these types of organisations down.

Unfortunately, the funds that have been transferred in most cases were "non-returnable deposits", and without a contract as to when the services will be supplied then you are unlikely to be due anything. And if you cancel your order then that's it.

If they were to take the website down then it would be evidence that they are no longer trading, and thus you would have a case to get your deposit back, but if they claim they are still trading then you still have to wait, unless they are in breach of contract in some way.

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, gilesco said:

No, they used to say they were at some industrial estate, but someone has been there, and others have looked on google maps and they don't appear to have a unit there.

We need to be careful about "bashing" suppliers on this forum as I believe there are rules about this in the T&Cs. I would recommend that anyone who has an issue with these people that you get together and collectively take action privately.

This could be by means of a CCJ, Debt Collection agencies etc... etc... They have the experience and means of tracking these types of organisations down.

Unfortunately, the funds that have been transferred in most cases were "non-returnable deposits", and without a contract as to when the services will be supplied then you are unlikely to be due anything. And if you cancel your order then that's it.

If they were to take the website down then it would be evidence that they are no longer trading, and thus you would have a case to get your deposit back, but if they claim they are still trading then you still have to wait, unless they are in breach of contract in some way.

There is an address on there website, with a postcode….🤔🤔

[gilesco]

2 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

There is an address on there website, with a postcode….🤔🤔

Roundham is an entire town, and the postcode is shared by the entire Industrial estate. They don't have a unit there.

 

[Stuart1971]

12 minutes ago, gilesco said:

Roundham is an entire town, and the postcode is shared by the entire Industrial estate. They don't have a unit there.

 

Ah, ok…🤔🤔

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, iantaylor2uk said:

Can't they be reported to trading standards?

I'm sure that those who have taken legal action to get their money back would have also gone down that road and had them involved.  Those who did go to court and won have been quiet in this thread since, but I'm sure if bailiffs were involved that an update would be posted with any additional information that may help others following in that path.

What we don't know is how many customers are not aware of SGL let alone this thread and have continued to place orders whilst this mess is going on without knowing about it.  It does bring into question the character of the person who has basically lied and broken the promise's they made  to close the website and try to resolve this mess.

I'm sure most of the people on here that are owed money or an observatory would be understanding if the owner has had personal issues in life to deal with which has resulted in delays etc was up front and in regular communication.  It's a real shame this thread exists as HOUK fulfilled a gap in the market place at the time it originated, and gained a good reputation for both products and service.

I know that there are guidelines on what can be posted on SGL regarding members viewpoints on suppliers or individuals, especially when things are negative rather than positive, but there has to be some leeway when it comes to the facts that individuals have experienced and the comments that follow from others keen to help.  If it prevents just one more person who is considering ordering from HOUK from losing £1000's then the thread deserves to be kept open.

[carastro]

There myst be some legal way of getting his website removed/ frozen.  Does anyone know how this can be done?   
 

Carole

Edited October 13, 2022 by carastro

[malc-c]

5 minutes ago, carastro said:

There myst be some legal way of getting his website removed/ frozen.  Does anyone know how this can be done?   
 

Carole

Carole, I'm no expert, but would assume that the request / order for a website to be closed down would need to come from the police / trading standards and possibly needs a court approval to enforce closure.  Chances are the website is hosted externally to HOUK so the application would need to be made to the ISP/Host 

Edit: If someone knows the details of the hosting company then letters from affected people highlighting the issues to that company requesting they investigate could also result in the site being taken down as HOUK being their customer may have broken the contractual terms and conditions with them. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by malc-c
additional comment

[johnturley]

1 hour ago, malc-c said:

Carole, I'm no expert, but would assume that the request / order for a website to be closed down would need to come from the police / trading standards and possibly needs a court approval to enforce closure.  Chances are the website is hosted externally to HOUK so the application would need to be made to the ISP/Host 

This reminds me of a rogue airport parking company near Manchester Airport based in Styal Cheshire, and that pose as the Official Airport Parking.

There have been numerous complaints about them to Trading Standards (including from me), the police have been involved on a number of occasions, and they have also been featured on Rogue Traders and similar TV programs.  They should have been closed down, and their website (which looks like the Official Manchester Airport site) taken down, yet they still continue operate and advertise their services. 

John 

Edited October 13, 2022 by johnturley

[malc-c]

Doing a reverse IP lookup on whois provides details for the HOUK website can be found here  https://whois.domaintools.com/homeobservatoryuk.com - the lookup suggests that Catalyst2 are the company HOUK used to develop the website, or were the "brokers" between HOUK and Godaddy who probably own the actual servers in the data centre

[malc-c]

4 minutes ago, johnturley said:

This reminds me of a rogue airport parking company near Manchester Airport based in Styal Cheshire, and that pose as the Official Airport Parking.

There have been numerous complaints about them to Trading Standards (including from me), the police have been involved on a number of occasions, and they have been featured on Rogue Traders and similar TV programs.  They should have been closed down, and their website (which looks like the Official Manchester Airport site) taken down, yet they still continue operate and advertise their services. 

John 

John, that can often be the case.  And under UK law there would be nothing stopping them starting another Ltd company days after winding up if Trading Standards managed to close the website down.  

[carastro]

I found the E Mail address of Trading Standards. 

UKICC@tsi.org.uk

Perhaps all those affected in this thread can contact them and complain.   Possibly mention one person has already taken them to court = won = but he can't be tracked down.  But at the very least his website should be taken down.   If enough people to it, it might make them sit up and take notice. 

I can't do it as I never ordered an Observatory from them, just took a keen interest in this thread as I almost ordered an observatory from this company some years ago.  

Carole 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by carastro

[KY Cygni]

I will reply in general to some of the comments based on my experience with HOUK

Trading standards are no longer public facing, you used to be able to go to them direct but now it’s all filtered through Citizens Advice who are volunteers that will help you with court action etc but not much else. It could be worth several of us contacting them, that should get us to Trading Standards.

The courts and bailiffs will not track anyone down for you, you have to do all of this legwork. HOUK have concealed themselves and none of the addresses add up. I tracked down a Gareth Thomas that lives less than a mile from the ind est. It wasn’t him. 

Non refundable deposit is meaningless if the contract is broken by the vendor as in this case.

I posed as a prospective customer making an enquiry via the website and he didn’t reply. I don’t think he is savvy enough to take it down. I think it is due to renew next year so it may vanish if he doesn’t pay up.

I have written off the money but am keeping an eye on things, if a valid address for Gareth Thomas becomes available I will send bailiffs back in.

Steve

 

 

 

 

[Shimrod]

3 hours ago, KY Cygni said:

I will reply in general to some of the comments based on my experience with HOUK

Trading standards are no longer public facing, you used to be able to go to them direct but now it’s all filtered through Citizens Advice who are volunteers that will help you with court action etc but not much else. It could be worth several of us contacting them, that should get us to Trading Standards.

The courts and bailiffs will not track anyone down for you, you have to do all of this legwork. HOUK have concealed themselves and none of the addresses add up. I tracked down a Gareth Thomas that lives less than a mile from the ind est. It wasn’t him. 

Non refundable deposit is meaningless if the contract is broken by the vendor as in this case.

I posed as a prospective customer making an enquiry via the website and he didn’t reply. I don’t think he is savvy enough to take it down. I think it is due to renew next year so it may vanish if he doesn’t pay up.

I have written off the money but am keeping an eye on things, if a valid address for Gareth Thomas becomes available I will send bailiffs back in.

Steve

 

 

 

 

Have you considered using a tracing service? If you've truly written the money off and it is substantial enough, a debt recovery service (which would do the tracing for you) might be an option although it would cost a fair chunk of the debt.

[KY Cygni]

On 23/10/2022 at 18:20, Shimrod said:

Have you considered using a tracing service? If you've truly written the money off and it is substantial enough, a debt recovery service (which would do the tracing for you) might be an option although it would cost a fair chunk of the debt.

Thanks for the reply, the problem is that every step in debt recovery costs something. I guess this has already added 25% to the original loss. I will play the long game and wait for an address tip. My guess is someone on here will know where he lives and may read this thread at some point.

[Steve Lintott]

Hi all,

HOUK certainly did have a workshop at the location noted by Stuart1971. I know this because I visited there a few years back, met Gareth and had a good discussion about my obs before putting down a hefty deposit (£3.5K)

I revisted the workshop earlier this year but there was no sign of life, or signage. Unfortunately this was just the workshop on a business estate, not Gareth's home address.

I am still out of pocket with no observatory. I asked Gareth to cancel my order and provide a refund but he said he did not have the money to refund me.

To the moderators of this forum, these are the facts, not necessarily a vendor bash. Just a recommendation to other potential customers that might hand over deposits to take precautions.

There are some other facts about the situation that I will not discuss on this open forum.

Good luck to all

[Mount Longlevens]

I put down 3k and I guess have lost that now!

 

 

[Mr Spock]

Speaking as a moderator, as long as people aren't saying things which could paint SGL in a bad light, recounting experiences of losing money to a trader is ok as long as it remains factual and objective. 

Ultimately it's Admin's call as it is their site but I see nothing wrong here at the moment.

[malc-c]

6 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

Speaking as a moderator, as long as people aren't saying things which could paint SGL in a bad light, recounting experiences of losing money to a trader is ok as long as it remains factual and objective. 

Ultimately it's Admin's call as it is their site but I see nothing wrong here at the moment.

Whilst this thread does seem to be painting HOUK in bad light, it would be IMO a bad thing if the admin choose to lock it or edit it in some way.  Those who have received their observatories have gone on record praising the products and the service, but equally it provides a platform for those who have been stung by what on the face of it seems to be a fraudulent practice as deposits have still been taken even though HOUK have no ability or means to produce the goods.  By keeping the thread alive it allows those who have done their own investigations such as that detailed in Steve's post to keep other affected parties informed.

I can appreciate that it can be a delicate balance for the Admin / Owners of a forum to allow reporting of facts which are negative from affected members, but in this case there is IMO good reason.  Reading through this thread it would seem that tens of thousands of pounds have been taken under false pretences so this is more serious than "bashing" a retailer due to a delay in sending an eyepiece or something similar.  It also may help future people who google HOUK as part of researching the company prior to departing with a couple of grand deposit, because as of this minute HOUK's website is still up and running and ready to take orders from unsuspecting customers. 

[carastro]

People have reported companies to the BBC who have investigated, might be worth a try, even if it only suceeds to locate his current address.

This is really appalling, and a crime as such maybe the police need to be involved, perhaps those affected should all get together and submit a report en masse.  Should not be allowed to continue.  If he is bankrupt then he needs to cease trading including his website.  

Hmmm, tax man wonder if he can help - well the police at least.  

Carole 

Edited December 16, 2022 by carastro

[callisto]

53 minutes ago, malc-c said:

 

It also may help future people who google HOUK as part of researching the company prior to departing with a couple of grand deposit

Definitely... especially when looking for reviews.

[Shimrod]

4 hours ago, malc-c said:

I can appreciate that it can be a delicate balance for the Admin / Owners of a forum to allow reporting of facts which are negative from affected members, but in this case there is IMO good reason.  Reading through this thread it would seem that tens of thousands of pounds have been taken under false pretences so this is more serious than "bashing" a retailer due to a delay in sending an eyepiece or something similar.  It also may help future people who google HOUK as part of researching the company prior to departing with a couple of grand deposit, because as of this minute HOUK's website is still up and running and ready to take orders from unsuspecting customers. 

The website is still up and running but I think that is just because the hosting has been paid. I requested a quote for an observatory back in October (as a test) and have never received a reply. It's not possible to place an order and spend money directly on the site, so unless someone starts picking up the emails at the other end again there is little danger of someone losing money.

[wesdon1]

On 12/09/2021 at 09:09, KY Cygni said:

I am the customer mentioned above re court action.

I cancelled my order with HOUK in June. Since then they will not even reply to emails.

• I served a letter before action in early July
• I proceeded to court action against Gareth, he has ignored this and missed the deadline to respond to the claim.
• I have requested a default judgment CCJ
• Should he also ignore this I will move on to debt recovery.

I know that he is aware of this situation as he has moved onto jobs that were due after mine while retaining my deposit payment.

I built my own observatory which took a couple of weeks and am up running, I will add a post about this soon.

Steve

 

Hi Steve. It really saddens me reading this. I think maybe if you asked the high court for them to send those high court enforcement bailiffs who have basically cate' blanche to turn up at any business and clean them out, if they won't pay the debts ? Harsh, I know, but there comes a point when you can't wait any longer and continue allowing these people to cause you any more distress and hardship! You paid a substantial sum of money to that business in good faith, so you are well withing your legal and indeed moral rights to expect to receive the services and/or goods you were paying for! I sincerely hope you get your monies back and the nightmare can end for you asap!

Clear Skies.

Wes.