Sky Watcher AZ GTi - New Firmware Available V3.31 is out

[powerlord]

So last night I really tried with azgti.

Initially I pointed over to the North west. And using @GoldTop57 settings above (though I then tried my old and also worked), got calibration to work - with it returning more or less to star at the end. It then started guiding ok. Not great - about 1" rms - but it WAS guiding and staying on the star...

I then moved to the east around cygnus, and since different meridian, recalibrated. Now it was screwed again with runaway DEC. Tried all sorts to correct, but you could see from each calibration attempt - north would go out, south would..keep going out.

When it stopped it just kept DEC wandering more and more south. turn guiding off - steady as could be (I'd PAed to less than 1" and rebooted asiair and double checked it still thought PA was good). Turn guiding back on and off for a wander it goes.

If I disabled DEC guiding, it was ok - not great - RA was difficult to control - sort of spiking to 4" and keeping doing that - but not running away at least. Weirdly thought, since it WAS PAed good anyway, my DEC kept at about 0.5"  unguided - better than the fecking RA was doing GUIDED.

So I am wondering, other than dithering if there is any point in guiding it tbh...maybe I'll try putting the firmware back to what worked ages ago and trying that.

I was wondering for those that say it works for them- are they guiding in the west ?

I also connected safari  to it (via asiair pro eqmod and safari driver), and that went the wrong way too when I tried to goto in safari-  BUT goto in asiair was fine. Dunno if related or not, but something is screwed.

I'll try and feed that back to SW on the forums.

I've got 2 azgtis, so I'll put one firmware back to earlier firmware if I can find it on my computer - as not on site anymore!! see if it's any better.

The other pain is if you run two asiairs like I am, switching between them is crap - as though it connects to the other one, you still get the screen from that first one which is really confusing. so if you are in the middle of a plan for example, you have to 'stop' the non existent plan before it lets you do something else - all while still showing you the image from the other one. Clearly not something that has been tested at all...however, thats asiair issues - need to raise them with ZWO if I can.

 

[AstroNebulee]

6 hours ago, powerlord said:

So I am wondering, other than dithering if there is any point in guiding it tbh...maybe I'll try putting the firmware back to what worked ages ago and trying that.

That's not good for you atall powerlord. What firmware was the one that worked for you previously, I think I have 3.26 firmware still on my laptop just incase. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by AstroNebulee

[Shimrod]

3 hours ago, powerlord said:

I've got 2 azgtis, so I'll put one firmware back to earlier firmware if I can find it on my computer - as not on site anymore!! see if it's any better.

The other pain is if you run two asiairs like I am, switching between them is crap - as though it connects to the other one, you still get the screen from that first one which is really confusing. so if you are in the middle of a plan for example, you have to 'stop' the non existent plan before it lets you do something else - all while still showing you the image from the other one. Clearly not something that has been tested at all...however, thats asiair issues - need to raise them with ZWO if I can.

 

The 3.20 firmware is definitely still on the site, but I have the 3.26 firmware on my PC

[powerlord]

I'll download older one just now then I flash one of em.

Just build a little power box for each of them - they were sharing the one on my big mount previously. Now each has it's own - so lots of less wire clutter and they are now independently portable.

12v in, 3x12v out, plus 3 usb, plus the XT30 connector is 8.4v for DSLR (I have matching cables to dummy batteries for both DSLRs)

So only 12v power lead to avoid getting twisted. 😀

Now just need to get the fecking guiding working again !! - Off up to scotland in motorhome in a week, and plan to bring at least one up, maybe 2 of em - but will stick to DSLR imaging I think on hols - so 135mm, 200, 300mm and maybe the 1.4 and 2x extenders.

stu

 

[powerlord]

On 17/08/2021 at 12:51, Shimrod said:

The 3.20 firmware is definitely still on the site, but I have the 3.26 firmware on my PC

could you zip it and PM 3.26 to me please ? I think that's the one that worked for me, and I seem to have deleted it.

stu

[powerlord]

Here's my phd2 log from the night I tried 3.3

I'm not a phd2 guy, so don't really know how to interpret it ? Be great if someone could help ?

But basically, I calibrated in west sky, then guided - and you can see it was guiding ok.

I then moved to west sky and calibrated again.. it was terrible. I then repeated to try calibrating and guiding several more times, sometimes rebooting asiair - and you can still see the DEC running away ?

 

PHD2_GuideLog_2021-08-12_225702.txt

[powerlord]

arg.. I think I screwed up - when pointing to west, I had pier to west (i.e. telescope on right as skywatcher said), but when I went to east sky, I moved it the same way as my EQ6-r had moved.... this seems to have pier on the east - see pic of them both pointing at cygnus.

I think that's my screw up! - the firmware only works with pier west, and when I've been shooting stuff in the east I've had it as pic below.

Should I have had it pointed at cygnus with the weights side high and the scope low, so that the mount was still in the west ?

In pic , east is where the phone is pointing.

[powerlord]

actually the more I think about it - that makes no sense. they say - mount it on the right, scope facing forward... ok.. but with asiair, it decides what way to move - and it PAs the the west (pier on east), and IT gotos with the pier on the west for easterly targets, and with pier on the east for easterly targets.

BUT if you look at those phd2 alignment logs - the say 'pier side = west' always - yes, first one was west, but then pier side was east as in pic.. so.. does that explain why it doesn't work ? For those that DO have it working can you please post exactly how OTA mounted directions wise, where you targeted and calibrated and aligned ?

stu

[powerlord]

And didn't there used to be a firmware for east, and one for the west mounting ? and now there's only one. or did I imagine that ?

[AstroNebulee]

2 hours ago, powerlord said:

could you zip it and PM 3.26 to me please ? I think that's the one that worked for me, and I seem to have deleted it.

stu

If Shimrod doesn't get back to you later I'll pm you the 3. 26 firmware when I'm home from work 👍

[powerlord]

he did - got it. thanks @Shimrod

I hunted through logs to find an example of me calibrating the azgti on roughly the same area of the sky as the EQ6-r. Here is an example (DEC and RA not miles different) - but the calibration graph TOTALLY different!

wtf is going on ? EQ6-r on the left.

[AstroNebulee]

8 minutes ago, powerlord said:

he did - got it. thanks @Shimrod

I hunted through logs to find an example of me calibrating the azgti on roughly the same area of the sky as the EQ6-r. Here is an example (DEC and RA not miles different) - but the calibration graph TOTALLY different!

wtf is going on ? EQ6-r on the left.

That's good you've got 3.26 now be good to hear how your guiding compares with that firmware. I wish I could help you but still waiting to get my AAP out for first light. I'll let you know how it get on as I've updated to 3.32. But as you say AAP decides which way to goto your target after you PA. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by AstroNebulee

[GoldTop57]

That calibration graph on the right looks iffy - its as if you have the left arm version of the FW installed.

[powerlord]

but there is no left arm. not anymore anyway afaik. but yeh - it's something like that. all i need is a night i can see a few stars and have a play where I know im not wasting imaging time as it's too cloudy.  I'll still stick one of em back the 3.26 though.

[AstroNebulee]

I've managed to have first light with my AAP, my total rms isn't great going from Round 1.76 to 3.25 at best. I am dithering an after a dither the RA remains very jagged but won't run off wildly, Dec will come back to with my stated settle of 4" but takes about 20 seconds to get back to taking the next image. All other settings are default. My pa is under 2" and aggression RA is set to 65 and dec to 70. Once guiding and stable my dec will stay reasonably well, very happy and RA will be very jagged and just before my sub is due to finish they will both settle to a low rms. I will try @GoldTop57 settings and see if much better. My set up is balanced well and no issues with that. Could be ropey seeing with the moon about at the time though. The first image is guiding from the 1st night and the next is from the second and third nights. We all k ow this mount isn't advertised for astrophotography so if this is the best I can get I'm happy as it's perfect portabilty for my needs and requirements. Done 120 sec subs without issue and will try 180 next. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by AstroNebulee

[powerlord]

interesting. and what exposure on the guide cam ?

I tried night before last again. Definately still running away DEC for me - east and west sky. And doesn't matter if I try north or south rather than auto. It is definately pier direction screwed up - you can see the pulses - though they appear in graph to be the right direction, each pulse shoots it further away - which I reckon would happen if it thinks the pier direction is the opposite of what it is. saying that - make no sense that yours works.

I did try 3.26 and no difference.

In the end, if I turn off DEC guiding it is fine, and guides and dithers RA ok - I posted heart and soul on samyang f2 thread yesterday as results.

I also found it impossible to calibrate succesfully when I was quite high in the sky within.. i dunno 30 degrees of zenith - the movements were too small for east/west shifts. I thought it was screwed, and it was only when later I moved down to the heart and soul nebula and tried calibrating and it worked, that I realised it was the high dec that was causing it.

Looking at your graph, it looks to me that your RA agression is far too high as its whipping back and forward over 0. try reducing that waay down to 30 or so. Also, if your exposure is too quick this can also cause this - try shooting 2 sec exposures or even longer (reduce gain as appropriate).

Sub length you can get at the end of the day is gonna depend on what FL you are using with it of course.

So just to check a few things with you:

1. guide camera exposure ?

2. target location - east/west, high/low ?

3. pier side at target location : east or west ?

4. can you post guide logs (in logs directory on asiair)

5. if you want yourself, try loading the guide logs in https://openphdguiding.org/phd2-log-viewer/

stu

 

[GoldTop57]

At least your DEC looks fairly stable now.  A bit of a saw tooth going on with RA so may be you want to dial back the aggression a touch. What is your exposure time for guiding?

[GoldTop57]

Sorry - it was powerlord who was having problems with DEC runaway.

[AstroNebulee]

3 hours ago, powerlord said:

interesting. and what exposure on the guide cam ?

I tried night before last again. Definately still running away DEC for me - east and west sky. And doesn't matter if I try north or south rather than auto. It is definately pier direction screwed up - you can see the pulses - though they appear in graph to be the right direction, each pulse shoots it further away - which I reckon would happen if it thinks the pier direction is the opposite of what it is. saying that - make no sense that yours works.

I did try 3.26 and no difference.

In the end, if I turn off DEC guiding it is fine, and guides and dithers RA ok - I posted heart and soul on samyang f2 thread yesterday as results.

I also found it impossible to calibrate succesfully when I was quite high in the sky within.. i dunno 30 degrees of zenith - the movements were too small for east/west shifts. I thought it was screwed, and it was only when later I moved down to the heart and soul nebula and tried calibrating and it worked, that I realised it was the high dec that was causing it.

Looking at your graph, it looks to me that your RA agression is far too high as its whipping back and forward over 0. try reducing that waay down to 30 or so. Also, if your exposure is too quick this can also cause this - try shooting 2 sec exposures or even longer (reduce gain as appropriate).

Sub length you can get at the end of the day is gonna depend on what FL you are using with it of course.

So just to check a few things with you:

1. guide camera exposure ?

2. target location - east/west, high/low ?

3. pier side at target location : east or west ?

4. can you post guide logs (in logs directory on asiair)

5. if you want yourself, try loading the guide logs in https://openphdguiding.org/phd2-log-viewer/

stu

 

Hi Stu. 

Thank you for your advice 

I'm pleased you've had some success with your az gti now, albeit only guiding in RA and your calibration sorted by doing that lower down. 

Your heart and soul image is brilliant and just with RA guiding to. 

I shall lower down the RA aggression rate as thought I read somewhere that less is more for that. 

To answer your questions 

 

1. It was at 0.5 and 70 gain (so I'll make the exposure longer and lower the gain) 

2. My target was the North American nebula so at thd time high up in the east really. 

3. My camera was on the west side quite low down as the target was high (hope I answered that correctly) 

4 & 5 I,ve attached it now. I remember my calibration last night wasn't at 90 degrees to each other but say 95 ish. 

I hope this info seems correct still very new to the AAP. 

PHD2_GuideLog_2021-08-25_211948.txt

Edited August 26, 2021 by AstroNebulee

[AstroNebulee]

1 hour ago, GoldTop57 said:

At least your DEC looks fairly stable now.  A bit of a saw tooth going on with RA so may be you want to dial back the aggression a touch. What is your exposure time for guiding?

Thank you I shall lower my Ra aggression and make my guide cam exposures longer as only got 0.5 for that, so hopefully that'll iron a bit of issues out too, thank you. 

[powerlord]

4 hours ago, AstroNebulee said:

Hi Stu. 

Thank you for your advice 

I'm pleased you've had some success with your az gti now, albeit only guiding in RA and your calibration sorted by doing that lower down. 

Your heart and soul image is brilliant and just with RA guiding to. 

I shall lower down the RA aggression rate as thought I read somewhere that less is more for that. 

To answer your questions 

 

1. It was at 0.5 and 70 gain (so I'll make the exposure longer and lower the gain) 

2. My target was the North American nebula so at thd time high up in the east really. 

3. My camera was on the west side quite low down as the target was high (hope I answered that correctly) 

4 & 5 I,ve attached it now. I remember my calibration last night wasn't at 90 degrees to each other but say 95 ish. 

I hope this info seems correct still very new to the AAP. 

PHD2_GuideLog_2021-08-25_211948.txt 438.14 kB · 0 downloads

thanks - no calibration data in there though. just guiding ?

Oh - and what FL were you using ? was this with your 72ED ?

I'm beginning to wonder if it's asiair that isn't PAing properly with wide angles like the 135mm I was using. because I was PAed to about 0.2". and yet looking at my PA log it says my PA drift was 20" !

so if the PA is mince, then maybe that explains my DEC drift..

I'm off to scotland tomorrow in motorhome for a week, and just brining the azgti/asiair combo, DSLR and some lenses - so if I get a clear night I try it all with a 300mm and see what the score is.. that would also explain why I could swear it used to work, because until recently I've not shot any wide field stuff.

And looking at my logs I remebered wrong - I found DEC running away even when just doing RA guiding...which I suppose makes sense if it was telling my nonsense about being PAed.

see here:

Now I swear I PAed to about 0.01/0.20. AND I rebooted asiair and did a PA again to be sure. And it's telling me the PA is 20" off !!

It didn't seem to be watching the guiding camera and seeing the stars not moving.. but still.. it might explain it - maybe 135mm is just too wide . Maybe need to PA with 300mm then go back to 135mm once PAed.

[AstroNebulee]

23 minutes ago, powerlord said:

4 hours ago, AstroNebulee said:

Expand  

thanks - no calibration data in there though. just guiding ?

Oh - and what FL were you using ? was this with your 72ED ?

Hi Stu 

That was the only phd2 log file I had on my asiair pro unless it's a hidden file, or unless there should be a setting in the AAP to keep calibration logs. 

My focal length was 430mm as I let the AAP determine my focal length as I use a FF in the train. 

It will be interesting to see what your 300mm lens acheives with your AAP. Let us know how you get on with it abdc most of all enjoy your holiday and clear skies 👍

[AstroNebulee]

Thank you @powerlord and @GoldTop57I managed to get put and do some imaging on the NA nebula again tonight before the clouds roll in making nearly 3 hours of data and after following your advice on lower RA aggression, guide cam exposure and lower gain my guiding was a amazing, I also upped the guide rate to 0.9 and much quicker after a dither to staring imaging again. I moved the RA aggression to 30 and dec to 60, exposure to 2 secs on guidecam and gain to 50. I was regularly getting rms of around 1 and below a lot of the time, even the graph shrunk to a smaller error lots of times so very happy tonight. I'll add tonight's phd2 log moro but I'll attach a few screenshots here of my guiding graph. 

[GoldTop57]

Not bad for a cheap mount that was never designed for AP 🙂

[AstroNebulee]

4 hours ago, GoldTop57 said:

Not bad for a cheap mount that was never designed for AP 🙂

My thoughts entirely, I'd take that guiding everytime for me 👍