Help on Astronomical/Planetary viewing equipment that is cheap and good please

[Knighty2112]

1 hour ago, mikemarotta said:

Hi Mike. I did state it required a smart phone or tablet if they wanted to use this scope with the goto function, however it can be also used without using the goto function too by just releasing the clutch and moving it around manually too to find objects. I did realise the person was from Australia, however I used the page from FLO to show the scope required, but wasn’t suggesting that they buy it from the UK. Someone did post up the version I suggested from a site down under if they want to purchase it. I’ve used various goto systems on various mounts, and don’t find them hard to use. I felt this was perhaps a good choice for a 1st scope as it was not to expensive, and also enabled the user to use goto if they wanted too which would surely open the heavens better to a new user, than struggling with star hopping (which can be learned over time) and give much more enjoyment rather than not been able to see objects searched for, get frustrated with the whole thing then give it up.  

Edited August 8, 2021 by Knighty2112

[Astro Noodles]

@mikemarotta

I don't know if you have offered any meaningful advice here.

The manner of your criticisms of the advice offered by other members isn't appropriate.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Astro Noodles

[Alan64]

On 07/08/2021 at 08:47, TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy said:

Thanks this is exactly what i was looking for, do you think i will have any trouble with it as a person new to telescopes and, will i have any problems with it? because if no im going to add it to cart

Hello, and I apologise for being late to the party <drapes and sets cape and top-hat aside, respectively>.

I was once a beginner like yourself, but at the age of 8 or 9 you don't have any money of your own.  One evening, back in the early 1970s, my family and I went to a Sears surplus store located within the large city in which we lived at the time.  Sears, in the U.S., sold telescopes over many decades, and were oft featured within their Christmas "Wish Book", as they called it.

There in the store, I was walking round and about, and suddenly I saw a telescope, perched atop an aisle-divider.  Again, I was only 8 or 9.  I went round and round, and round again, whilst never taking my eyes off of that telescope.  I then went up towards the front of the store, where my parents were, in line about to check out.  I asked, most likely, my father if I could have that telescope.  These days, it looks much better on the front of the owner's manual that came with the kit...

The refractor came with a solar-projection screen even, hanging off the back of the telescope there, and for observing the Sun safely.  These days, however, the telescope needs a bit of work...

...a right good cleaning, for one.  That's a 60mm f/11 achromat, or refractor, and just like this one...

https://www.ozscopes.com.au/skywatcher-sk607az2-refractor-telescope.html

Now, I am by no means suggesting that one for you, heavens above no.  For one, it's quite a bit on the dim side.  Think of a nite-lite, plugged into a wall outlet next to a closet.  You then peer inside the closet to try to find something, and by the feeble glow of that wee light on the wall outside.  It would be fine for observing the Moon, the brighter planets, Mars even.  But for the dimmer, deep-sky objects, you want something with a bit more "oomph".

For those first starting out, I like to suggest a longer-focus 80mm, in a refractor, at a minimum, or even this 90mm...

https://www.astronomyalive.com.au/product/saxon-909eq2-refractor-telescope-2/

However, a 90mm refractor will still be limited in showing you the fainter, and more exotic, deep-sky denizens of the night sky, but it would show you considerably more than a 60mm.  Now, whilst a refractor requires virtually no maintenance(collimation), the mount that comes with that 90mm refractor is an equatorial mount, which has a learning-curve all its own.  It is convenient, however, for tracking a single object for an extended amount of time.  Then, there is also this kit, and where the 90mm is mounted upon an easier-to-use alt-azimuth mount...

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/saxon-909-az3/?v=322b26af01d5

The mount of that kit also has the ability to track an object, but with a little more difficulty. 

There are larger refractors, at 102mm, 120mm, and those larger still, but they're more costly of course, particularly during these troubling times.  In addition, they offer only a modest increase in light-gathering aperture.

I'm not seeing much in the way of Maksutov reflectors among the vendors there in Australia, so I'll just leave those to your own discretion and research.  The design has a rather long focal-length, and is ideal for lunar and planetary observations; also for the dimmer, deep-sky objects as well.  Indeed, the vast majority of deep-sky objects are small, and can viewed in their entireties with said telescope.  But then, many of those objects require a larger aperture to see them well.

I think that you should start out with at least a 5"/127mm(or 130mm) aperture, especially these days with light-pollution running rampant, and particularly in that you mentioned nebulae.  Nebulae are the veils, the "ladies' handkerchiefs", of the night sky.  They are rather delicate, yet dim, save perhaps that of Orion.  For those, and the globular-clusters, and perhaps a galaxy or two, you want the largest aperture of telescope that you feel you might be able to manage.

I would like to steer you towards one of these...

https://www.astronomyalive.com.au/product/saxon-dob-8-200mm-reflector-telescope/

...however, stock is limited.  Or, consider this 10"...

https://www.astronomyalive.com.au/product/saxon-dob-10-254mm-reflector-telescope/

The best 8" "Dobsonian" is actually a 10".  Just imagine what you might see with that one.

I have quite a few telescopes, some might say too many; over twelve at present.  Here are two of my larger instruments: a 4" refractor, and a 6" Newtonian...

Despite all of those telescopes, large and small, I have been most excited upon having acquired my latest, and recently: a 70mm f/12.9 achromat...

It is my sincere desire and hope that you find what you're looking for, with the telescope you finally decide upon, and within the wondrous sights you will undoubtedly behold.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Alan64

[TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy]

On 08/08/2021 at 17:00, Chaz2b said:

 

hi Guys, I just wanted to update yall with a bit more information, i need a telescope, most likely a refractor as i have no idea on how to collimate. i want it to be able to see pictures like this but more zoomed in the pctures shown below but slightly more zoomed in, i need it to be a easy to handle and a mount. and some tips on eyepieces i can get, if the telescope cannot show images like this can you please reccomend me some eyepieces than can do it and other eye pieces you think i need, im going to get the 2x short barlow but i dont know what else to get, thank you, and if possible please link your telescope reccomendations based on what i need in australian retailers, Thanks

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy

[happy-kat]

Those images are generated from imaging and not what you see through the eyepiece as they are created from many frames combined. 

Have you read the link given earlier in this thread on 'what can I expect to see'? This might help with expectations and what telescope. If you are chasing magnification a mak or sct design telescope may suit.

[Tiny Clanger]

9 hours ago, TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy said:

hi Guys, I just wanted to update yall with a bit more information, i need a telescope, most likely a refractor as i have no idea on how to collimate. i want it to be able to see pictures like this but more zoomed in the pctures shown below but slightly more zoomed in, i need it to be a easy to handle and a mount. and some tips on eyepieces i can get, if the telescope cannot show images like this can you please reccomend me some eyepieces than can do it and other eye pieces you think i need, im going to get the 2x short barlow but i dont know what else to get, thank you, and if possible please link your telescope reccomendations based on what i need in australian retailers, Thanks

You don't want to do any of the research yourself ? And you want the members here (the vast majority of who are in Europe) to tell you what to buy, and search for links for you in Australian websites ? Hmm.

If you want to have that sort of service provided for you, best you contact some Australian astronomy kit dealers yourself, and ask their advice. I'm sure an online search for 'telescope retailers Australia' will give you plenty of places to contact .

[dweller25]

Hello @TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy and welcome to SGL.

As already mentioned, the best value for money telescope that will give good planetary views is a “Dobsonian” like this……

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/bintel-bt202-b-8-inch-dobsonian/?v=322b26af01d5

It has an 8” mirror that gives good resolution, is very simple to operate and is relatively cheap. It will need collimating occasionally but it’s not hard once you practice it a few times.

The 10” version of the above scope (has a 10” mirror) - if you can manage the weight will give even better planetary views.

Sadly, there is a world wide shortage of these scopes due to Covid so you will have to be patient.

In the meantime, do more reading around the subject and check out the sketching sections here and on Cloudynights as this is a better indication of what you will actually see at the eyepiece - don’t expect to see the details you see in photos.

Also try to join an astronomy club if you can find one locally to benefit from the experience of others and see the kit they use.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by dweller25

[TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy]

2 hours ago, dweller25 said:

Hello @TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy and welcome to SGL.

As already mentioned, the best value for money telescope that will give good planetary views is a “Dobsonian” like this……

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/bintel-bt202-b-8-inch-dobsonian/?v=322b26af01d5

It has an 8” mirror that gives good resolution, is very simple to operate and is relatively cheap. It will need collimating occasionally but it’s not hard once you practice it a few times.

The 10” version of the above scope (has a 10” mirror) - if you can manage the weight will give even better planetary views.

Sadly, there is a world wide shortage of these scopes due to Covid so you will have to be patient.

In the meantime, do more reading around the subject and check out the sketching sections here and on Cloudynights as this is a better indication of what you will actually see at the eyepiece - don’t expect to see the details you see in photos.

Also try to join an astronomy club if you can find one locally to benefit from the experience of others and see the kit they use.

 

 

Hey dweller25. i found this pre setted eyepiece kit

https://proastroz.com/products/orion-1-25-telescope-accessory-kit?variant=11238248349732&currency=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-09-10&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign

do you think i should get it with this 10" dobsonian telescope i found?https://www.astronomyalive.com.au/product/saxon-dob-10-254mm-reflector-telescope/

i did some research, it is Australian retailer and ithas shipping to australia, do you think the eyepiece kit will fit on the telescope? and do you think i should get a collimating tool while im at it? i have done research on it but not sure if it will fit on it, and i also think the 10" is perfect or good enough for me i have looked at its description and its features and think its perfect or good enough for me

thanks

[dweller25]

On 08/08/2021 at 09:52, mikemarotta said:

G'day, mate! You did not get the answers you need. First of all you need to find an Australian retailer to buy your telescope from. They will be able to help you with customer support, and they will stand behind their products. 

SECOND: You need to do some background reading. This is like buying a car: sports car, van, 4-cylinder or 6, long drives or short commutes? Go to your local library or visit bookstores (used books, especially), and visit more than one of these discussion boards.  Read and ask questions. On one of the boards that I visit one of the Moderators, one of the leaders, just asked for help buying their first telescope. This is not something to jump into. 

The telescope that everyone wants you to buy -- spending your money for you -- requires frequent maintenance. You have to adjust it periodically. That's why they told you to get a "Cheshire." It is an alignment tool. But not every telescope needs that, only REFLECTORS with mirrors. The other kind, are REFRACTORS with lenses. They also need adjustment, like anything else in life, but not as nearly often, and maybe never as long as you own your telescope. And when you do need to align a lens system,  you usually take to the shop and have an expert do it.  

You got hit with a lot of buzzwords about "aperture" and "Dobs" and "fast" telescopes.  Without getting too technical right now, a telescope is a SYSTEM: 1. A main lens or mirror in a tube. 2. A tripod and mount 3. Eyepieces. Having one eyepiece is like having a car with one gear. It works... sort of ....  And when you listen to them talk among themselves, they all admit that the MOUNT and TRIPOD are as important as the telescope itself.  That's why I recommended that you visit the websites and the stores of retailers in Queensland and near Brisbane.  You need to do some window shopping in order to gain the knowledge you need to make a good choice.  Finally, if you fall in love with the hobby as we all have, your first telescope will not be your last. 

It all depends on the seeing conditions. The Cassini division and the Great Red Spot are not guaranteed sights.  You did not ask if the person lives in the city or suburbs or country. A reflector needs collimation. Can the person asking actually do that? You think it is easy. I found it difficult and abandoned reflectors for refractors. The questioner asked about what they knew to ask about (planets) because living in Australia, they take the Magellanic Clouds for granted.  A small refractor might be just the ticket. We do not know.

You gave some sound advice, Heather, no doubt about that. In this case, for myself, I hear warning bells when someone says "that's what I did." Is that cognitive dissonance? Are you justifiying a decision that you cannot change? I would not recommend the first telescope I bought. It was a mistake. And it was very similar to the one you recommended. Maybe it would be OK. Asking more questions might suggest some alternatives.

So, it is hard to use. And it has come from the UK. The person asking is in Oz, mate. Maybe they have a tablet. Maybe they do not want to use their phone for this.  It would help to find out more about the person's context.

You gave the right advice: slow down. Then you buried the person in buzzwords and jargon. The last line is salient advice, probably the best way to start the conversation. 

All good points. 

And when told the negatives they will be incomprehensible. You do not realize that you are speaking a foreign language. Fast ... slow... spherical... parabolic... f/8 ... diagonal. 

The one thing you said that could help was "iceinspace" and I was able to find it:  https://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/index.php

 

You were doing so well. And then you fell into jargon. But you were not alone in that. 

Perhaps we should all check with @mikemarotta first before posting 😂😂😂

Edited August 10, 2021 by dweller25

[dweller25]

29 minutes ago, TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy said:

Hey dweller25. i found this pre setted eyepiece kit

https://proastroz.com/products/orion-1-25-telescope-accessory-kit?variant=11238248349732&currency=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-09-10&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign

do you think i should get it with this 10" dobsonian telescope i found?https://www.astronomyalive.com.au/product/saxon-dob-10-254mm-reflector-telescope/

i did some research, it is Australian retailer and ithas shipping to australia, do you think the eyepiece kit will fit on the telescope? and do you think i should get a collimating tool while im at it? i have done research on it but not sure if it will fit on it, and i also think the 10" is perfect or good enough for me i have looked at its description and its features and think its perfect or good enough for me

thanks

I would not buy the eyepiece kit just yet - its better to buy the scope, use it and learn for yourself what you need based on your observing experience.

Eyepieces come in two width fittings 2” and 1.25”

The 10” Dobdonian you have found will accept both as it has a 2” to 1.25” converter.

1.25” eyepieces are generally the norm and will fit straight into the 10” Dobsonian.

A 1.25” collimating tool would be useful as you will probably need it sooner or later, a simple collimation cap like this would be a good start…..

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/rigel-aline-collimation-cap.html

But do take your time - the planets will still be there when you are an old man 🙂

Edited August 10, 2021 by dweller25

[M40]

Hello TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy, hope you don't mind if I give you a couple of pointers. Go to the First Light Optics website, select telescopes and then select skywatcher. I am not suggesting that you buy a skywatcher or that you buy from FLO, but I am offering it as a guide. When you look at the menu page you will see a whole range of telescopes listed, have a look through them as it will start to give you an understanding into what a Dob, a refractor and a reflector is. 

At the top of this page there is a heading called resources, if you select it, then select Astronomy tools, then select field of view then poke in different types of telescopes with different types of eyepieces and different solar system objects etc. What you will get is an idea of what is possible in terms of size not what you will get without a lot of additional bits and bobs and quite a few hours under your belt.

You have a great budget so you have a great deal of choice, have a good look around, see what others are using. Enjoy and keep us up to speed.

[RT65CB-SWL]

G'day @TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy and welcome to SGL.

On 10/08/2021 at 09:58, TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy said:

Hey dweller25. i found this pre setted eyepiece kit

https://proastroz.com/products/orion-1-25-telescope-accessory-kit?variant=11238248349732&currency=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-09-10&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign

do you think i should get it with this 10" dobsonian telescope i found?https://www.astronomyalive.com.au/product/saxon-dob-10-254mm-reflector-telescope/

i did some research, it is Australian retailer and ithas shipping to australia, do you think the eyepiece kit will fit on the telescope? and do you think i should get a collimating tool while im at it? i have done research on it but not sure if it will fit on it, and i also think the 10" is perfect or good enough for me i have looked at its description and its features and think its perfect or good enough for me

thanks

As per what @dweller25 says... forget about the eyepiece set. 

1. Best advice I can give at the present time is to get to know how the 'scope works', (during the day and night), to begin with.
2. A collimation tool (either a 'Cheshire' collimation tool or a collimation cap. If you opt for a laser collimation tool, then you will/may need to check the collimation for that too, especially the cheaper branded ones, (there are tutorials on a popular video sharing website on how to do it), is one of the first accessories to purchase.
3. Back to the eyepiece set. I cannot think of a good set to buy... so that is why I agree with @dweller25.
   If you want to try a zoom e/p, then I would recommend the Baader Hyperion 8-24mm zoom to begin with. Once you have found the sweet spot, then purchase additional 'fixed' length eyepieces of the equivalent size. I personally like 13mm and 6mm). I have a variety of various brands, types from Ortho's (narrowest FOV) to Nagler's (widest FOV), and from affordable to expensive, (either second-hand or new in box).
4. Filters are a bane of contention with us amatuers... Colour filters are a Marmite/Vegemite thing... you either like or hate them! For lunar/Moon observing a variable polarising filter is quite possibly a must have. For most other visual stuff, I use a Baader Neodymium, (I refer to it as my 'Swiss-Army knife' filter), or a UHC... all are available in 1.25" or 2". 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Philip R

[TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy]

1 hour ago, Philip R said:

G'day @TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy and welcome to SGL.

As per what @dweller25 says... forget about the eyepiece set. 

1. Best advice I can give at the present time is to get to know how the 'scope works', (during the day and night), to begin with.
2. A collimation tool (either a 'Cheshire' collimation tool or a collimation cap. If you opt for a laser collimation tool, then you will/may need to check the collimation for that too, especially the cheaper branded ones. There are tutorials on a popular video sharing website on how to do it), is one of the first accessories to purchase.
3. Back to the eyepiece set. I cannot think of a good set to buy... so that is why I agree with @dweller25.
   If you want to try a zoom e/p, then I would recommend the Baader Hyperion 8-24mm zoom to begin with. Once you have found the sweet spot, then purchase additional 'fixed' length eyepieces of the equivalent size. I personally like 13mm and 6mm). I have a variety of various brands, types from Ortho's (narrowest FOV) to Nagler's (widest FOV), and from affordable to expensive, (either second-hand or new in box).
4. Filters are a bane of contention with us amatuers... Colour filters are a Marmite/Vegemite thing... you either like or hate them! - for lunar/Moon observing a variable polarising filter is quite possibly a must have. For most other visual stuff, I use a Baader Neodymium, (I refer to it as my 'Swiss-Army knife' filter) or a UHC - all are available in 1.25" or 2". 

what is a zoom e/p?

[wulfrun]

17 minutes ago, TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy said:

what is a zoom e/p?

Exactly what you'd expect...it zooms in magnification by twisting a ring on the barrel. Think camera zoom, it works in much the same way (e/p = eyepiece).

[TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy]

12 minutes ago, wulfrun said:

Exactly what you'd expect...it zooms in magnification by twisting a ring on the barrel. Think camera zoom, it works in much the same way (e/p = eyepiece).

so like an eyepiece that zooms in? or a thing that zooms eyepieces in

[wookie1965]

35 minutes ago, TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy said:

so like an eyepiece that zooms in? or a thing that zooms eyepieces in

A zoom eyepiece is one that has various focal lengths all in one. So you go buy a 8" telescope basically you will need 3 eyepieces one long one medium one small I.e 25mm 15mm and a 8mm plus a 2x Barlow when using this in conjunction with the eyepieces you have theoretically 6 eyepieces as the Barlow halves the focal length 25 becomes 12.5mm 15mm becomes 7.5mm and the 8mm becomes a 4mm a zoom in various guises can be 8-24mm so between a 8mm and a 24mm and all in between so can a 7-21mm but for me the 8-24mm with a 2x Barlow would be a good start. 

[Alan64]

On 10/08/2021 at 07:15, TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy said:

what is a zoom e/p?

This is my Meade 8mm to 24mm zoom eyepiece...

...and compared to a basic 32mm Plossl.  The 32mm Plossl is, generally, the largest of the single focal-length eyepieces.  The zoom eyepiece is like having multiple eyepieces in one eyepiece, for convenience...

You twist the barrel to select the focal-length, and thereby the magnification you desire.  There within the image, it is set to a 24mm focal length.  With the 10" Newtonian-Dobson, with a focal-length of 1200mm, that would give you a power of...

1200mm  ÷ 24mm = 50x, or 50 times larger than you would see an object with just the eye.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Alan64

[mikemarotta]

Perhaps we should have a meta-discussion on how to give advice on buying your first telescope. It is a common question and reliable answers already exist, available for citation. The article from Sky & Telescope warning against "hobby killers" might be the best advice initially: not what to buy but what not to buy. In this case, the original poster already gave a monetary figure. However, lately, I have taken to listening to a different drummer. Rather than refractor-reflector-dobsonian-goto, I start with the cost of deciding. 

• How much do you earn per hour? 
• How much discretionary income do you want to invest in the telescope and all of the kit and gear that it requires?
• Divide Price by Wages and that is how many hours you should invest gathering information and reading. 

"I did this. Do what I did."  misses the fact that the interrogator is not you. They do not have your eyesight, your living arrangements, your income, your lifestyle, your education, or your physical strength, among all of the very many possible parameters.  

"I did this. Do what I did."  reflects cognitive dissonance: the desire to justify a choice that cannot be easily changed. I tell newbies "I did this, don't make my mistake." In fact, I made several expensive mistakes and gave the telescopes to the Goodwill where they might serve some social benefit on their journeys to new homes.  They just were not right for me, though, indeed, they were perfect for hundreds if not thousands of other happy customers. 

On the other hand, unlike @dweller25  I would recommend the "eyepiece" (ocular) kit that the original poster asked about. I bought mine because I saw other people at star parties with the same accessories. They had different kinds of telescopes. One was homemade, beautiful wooden tube. But they had the same box of lenses and filters. And the original poster found a restricted set, not the full array, but a core group, even better.  Given that the choices that were roundly offered cost far less than the stated budget, the ocular-and-filter set seemed like a good option. 

I could not help but notice that even the affable @Tiny Clanger  ran short of patience. It is understandable. That is why as a parent who survived  our child's teenage years, I took the time to use private messaging to open a line of communication, ask questions, and make suggestions, including finding a local astronomy club, and a short list of retailers in their city. 

As closely as I aligned with @John  on the problematic nature of contrary engagement, the fact is that astronomy is a science and its practice rests on technologies and we come together in society to share our appreciation and enjoyment of our hobby. In astronomy, physics, and sociology, not all answers are equally valid. Right and wrong exist. Trades  group jargon about "dobs" (and all that) delivers not much, especially to someone whose initial iniquiries evidence a lot of passion but not much background at that moment.

I confess to dropping the ball in my reply to @Knighty2112 about the smart phone goto. A colleague of mine in information systems selected something similar for his son. In that case, however, there was no question about the technology (which was secondary) but also about the engagement of the parent with the child. I read the rave reviews on these when they came out. I read the ads, read the articles. I would never buy one for myself. And in this case, considering the context of the original poster, it seemed clear to me that this is a person who can (a) find the planets and (b) wants to learn the sky. The cellphone option seemed like both a burden and a crutch. But I was too terse, and that was my own failing. 

Anyway, the current status as I understand from our PM exchanges it is that the local club is gaveling soon and the original poster is looking forward to meeting people who can answer all of his questions. (The OP also has my personal email address if they want to follow through.) 

 

On 08/08/2021 at 05:06, John said:

I'm not sure that it is helpful to critique the responses that folks are giving here like this Mike

By all means post your own advice in your own style for the original poster but others should be free to post what and how they like I think.

All the responses are well intentioned I'm sure

 

On 08/08/2021 at 05:18, Knighty2112 said:

Hi Mike. I did state it required a smart phone or tablet if they wanted to use this scope with the goto function, however it can be also used without using the goto function ... and give much more enjoyment rather than not been able to see objects searched for, get frustrated with the whole thing then give it up.  

 

On 08/08/2021 at 07:13, Astro Noodles said:

@mikemarotta

I don't know if you have offered any meaningful advice here.

The manner of your criticisms of the advice offered by other members isn't appropriate.

 

On 10/08/2021 at 04:02, dweller25 said:

Perhaps we should all check with @mikemarotta first before posting 😂😂😂

 

On 09/08/2021 at 17:33, Tiny Clanger said:

You don't want to do any of the research yourself ? And you want the members here (the vast majority of who are in Europe) to tell you what to buy, and search for links for you in Australian websites ? Hmm.

If you want to have that sort of service provided for you, best you contact some Australian astronomy kit dealers yourself, and ask their advice. I'm sure an online search for 'telescope retailers Australia' will give you plenty of places to contact .

 

On 10/08/2021 at 04:09, dweller25 said:

I would not buy the eyepiece kit just yet - its better to buy the scope, use it and learn for yourself what you need based on your observing experience.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by mikemarotta
fix grammar

[Alan64]

If I were an instructor, I would hand out the following telescope kit to all of my students, one for every two, or three of the wee tykes, knowing what they need best of all, rather than what they think they need.  I would expect nightly reports, daily, and on their progress.  They would be expected to do it all, including taking the telescope and mount completely apart, and putting them back together, yet in better shape than they were in before.

I would be hard, immune to their otherwise harrowing pleas, with a strap in one hand, and a screwdriver in the other...

https://www.saxon.com.au/saxon-1309eq2-velocity-reflector-telescope.html.html

[Alan64]

Incidentally, that kit is cheap, relatively, and good.

[Astro Noodles]

9 hours ago, mikemarotta said:

Perhaps we should have a meta-discussion on how to give advice on buying your first telescope. It is a common question and reliable answers already exist, available for citation. The article from Sky & Telescope warning against "hobby killers" might be the best advice initially: not what to buy but what not to buy. In this case, the original poster already gave a monetary figure. However, lately, I have taken to listening to a different drummer. Rather than refractor-reflector-dobsonian-goto, I start with the cost of deciding. 

• How much do you earn per hour? 
• How much discretionary income do you want to invest in the telescope and all of the kit and gear that it requires?
• Divide Price by Wages and that is how many hours you should invest gathering information and reading. 

"I did this. Do what I did."  misses the fact that the interrogator is not you. They do not have your eyesight, your living arrangements, your income, your lifestyle, your education, or your physical strength, among all of the very many possible parameters.  

"I did this. Do what I did."  reflects cognitive dissonance: the desire to justify a choice that cannot be easily changed. I tell newbies "I did this, don't make my mistake." In fact, I made several expensive mistakes and gave the telescopes to the Goodwill where they might serve some social benefit on their journeys to new homes.  They just were not right for me, though, indeed, they were perfect for hundreds if not thousands of other happy customers. 

On the other hand, unlike @dweller25  I would recommend the "eyepiece" (ocular) kit that the original poster asked about. I bought mine because I saw other people at star parties with the same accessories. They had different kinds of telescopes. One was homemade, beautiful wooden tube. But they had the same box of lenses and filters. And the original poster found a restricted set, not the full array, but a core group, even better.  Given that the choices that were roundly offered cost far less than the stated budget, the ocular-and-filter set seemed like a good option. 

I could not help but notice that even the affable @Tiny Clanger  ran short of patience. It is understandable. That is why as a parent who survived  our child's teenage years, I took the time to use private messaging to open a line of communication, ask questions, and make suggestions, including finding a local astronomy club, and a short list of retailers in their city. 

As closely as I aligned with @John  on the problematic nature of contrary engagement, the fact is that astronomy is a science and its practice rests on technologies and we come together in society to share our appreciation and enjoyment of our hobby. In astronomy, physics, and sociology, not all answers are equally valid. Right and wrong exist. Trades  group jargon about "dobs" (and all that) delivers not much, especially to someone whose initial iniquiries evidence a lot of passion but not much background at that moment.

I confess to dropping the ball in my reply to @Knighty2112 about the smart phone goto. A colleague of mine in information systems selected something similar for his son. In that case, however, there was no question about the technology (which was secondary) but also about the engagement of the parent with the child. I read the rave reviews on these when they came out. I read the ads, read the articles. I would never buy one for myself. And in this case, considering the context of the original poster, it seemed clear to me that this is a person who can (a) find the planets and (b) wants to learn the sky. The cellphone option seemed like both a burden and a crutch. But I was too terse, and that was my own failing. 

Anyway, the current status as I understand from our PM exchanges it is that the local club is gaveling soon and the original poster is looking forward to meeting people who can answer all of his questions. (The OP also has my personal email address if they want to follow through.) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well that's us told ! 😟

[Steve]

On 08/08/2021 at 11:06, John said:

I'm not sure that it is helpful to critique the responses that folks are giving here like this Mike

By all means post your own advice in your own style for the original poster but others should be free to post what and how they like I think.

All the responses are well intentioned I'm sure

I agree. 

@mikemarotta Please leave moderation to the moderators.

It is good you offer advice but please do not critique opinions offered from other members. That is not how we do things at SGL. 

[johninderby]

Lots of different opinions here on SGL but what makes SGL special is that everyone is free to have different opinions. We may disagree but it is all good natured. 👍🏻

[powerlord]

2 hours ago, Astro Noodles said:

Well that's us told ! 😟

quite.. how much you earn an hour calculation @mikemarotta? And you criticise  @Tiny Clanger response ? Who on earth does calculation like that before trying something new ??

I agree with @Tiny Clanger  - and thought her responses were spot on.

- @TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy - I'm glad you love astronomy. We do too. And we are here to help. But, mostly we will point you are places you can read and learn stuff for yourself. If you don't know one end of a telescope from the other - we all started there. I did 7 months ago. I read up on tutorials, I watched vidoes. When I got confused the good people of here answered my questions and pointed me in the right directions. But there is an expectation that you will follow links, and read advice given. I think that's fair ? So for example, the link posted about what you can expect to see is really important info. Similarly, if still interested we can link you to tutorials on what all the bits do , etc.

When the thread started, I think there was an expectation that if you'd made it this far to this forum you have some of that, but were confused as to scope choice. But I think you need to take the advice the friendly folk in here have given - learn what the stuff does and what its called a bit, learn what you will be able to see with different kit. Then, maybe it's time to chose a telescope and we can help with that ? Or don't and just buy something, it might be right, you might like it - but until you learn some of those terms and lingo, we are not going to be able to help much I doubt.

all the best

stu

[TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy]

53 minutes ago, powerlord said:

quite.. how much you earn an hour calculation @mikemarotta? And you criticise  @Tiny Clanger response ? Who on earth does calculation like that before trying something new ??

I agree with @Tiny Clanger  - and thought her responses were spot on.

- @TheTeenThatLovesAstronomy - I'm glad you love astronomy. We do too. And we are here to help. But, mostly we will point you are places you can read and learn stuff for yourself. If you don't know one end of a telescope from the other - we all started there. I did 7 months ago. I read up on tutorials, I watched vidoes. When I got confused the good people of here answered my questions and pointed me in the right directions. But there is an expectation that you will follow links, and read advice given. I think that's fair ? So for example, the link posted about what you can expect to see is really important info. Similarly, if still interested we can link you to tutorials on what all the bits do , etc.

When the thread started, I think there was an expectation that if you'd made it this far to this forum you have some of that, but were confused as to scope choice. But I think you need to take the advice the friendly folk in here have given - learn what the stuff does and what its called a bit, learn what you will be able to see with different kit. Then, maybe it's time to chose a telescope and we can help with that ? Or don't and just buy something, it might be right, you might like it - but until you learn some of those terms and lingo, we are not going to be able to help much I doubt.

all the best

stu

hi, if you can help me with my telescope choice, i have this telescope im minding to buy https://www.astronomyalive.com.au/product/saxon-dob-10-254mm-reflector-telescope/

aswell as this telescope eyepiece kit

https://proastroz.com/products/orion-1-25-telescope-accessory-kit?variant=11238248349732&currency=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-09-10&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign

i have done a fair bit of research and also i am still interested can you link me tutorials on all the bits to do 

thanks