Az… 4 or 5 ?

[Stu1smartcookie]

So , I am looking for an alt az manual mount … no fuss , no worry .. just put the mount down and stick a scope on it !  I’ve used an AZ5 before and moved it onto someone but I’m keen to either get another one or an AZ4 … I will be using a steel tripod  rather than an aluminium one . The question is , is there any advantages that one has over the other . I think the payloads when using a steel tripod are similar . Any thoughts welcome . 
Stu 

[vlaiv]

Main difference between the two is slow motion controls.

With AZ5 you can also toggle between two mount head angles - which can be handy for different OTA diameters.

[Stu1smartcookie]

Thanks @vlaiv ... is there any real difference in the payload ? .. i do like the degree markings on the AZ4 if im honest ..,. and it does get a really good write up in reviews . I found the SM movement good in the AZ5 and the fact that you could either use the cables or the small knobs . I have read that although the AZ4 doesnt " do" slow motion cables , the mount itself is really smooth and easy to fine control . I guess both these mounts do their job really well and its just a matter of choice of which one to go for . I suppose i am looking towards the AZ4 as i haven't used one before ... not the most scientific reasoning lol 

[banjaxed]

I had an AZ4 and while it was ok it was not very user friendly regarding fine adjustments IMO. I sold it and bought an AZ5 and it is so much easier to control. Others may disagree but it is my opinion and would not go back to an AZ4.

[John]

I've owned a couple of AZ-4's and I've had a close look at an AZ-5. I reckon the AZ-4 might be a bit more robust than the AZ-5 and have a higher capacity. Not a lot in it and the slow motion facility of the AZ-5 might sway you if your scope is not a long / heavy one.

What scope are you intending to put on the mount ?

Weight capacity alone can be misleading - the tube length makes a lot of difference to stability.

A steel tubed tripod (or even better, wood) is definitely worth opting for over the aluminum one.

My 102mm F/6.5 refractor was very comfortable on the AZ-4 with this nice hardwood tripod.

[vlaiv]

I have AZ4 and one of the things that I sometimes miss are slow motion controls.

AZ4 on paper looks more robust and could behave a bit better under heavier load. Specs say that AZ4 should handle up to 6.8Kg while AZ5 up to 5Kg.

John above is very correct in terms of scope length. I had ST102mm on AZ4 and it was excellent combination. With wide field scope you don't really need slow motion controls.

I'm now using it with Evo 102 F/10 achromat and although the OTA is very light at about 3.5Kg - I'm not very happy on how it behaves on AZ4. Too much vibrations when focusing and use at high powers is not that good. Scope is just too long for the mount.

I'm thinking of replacing my AZ4 with SkyTee2. I'll probably also need something lighter weight so I was looking at Scopetech Mount Zero and it ticks all the boxes as being both AZ4 and AZ5 (payload, slow motion, etc ...) - except for the price. It's a bit too much on expensive side - for my wallet at least.

If you have the funds, well, have look at Zero, only drawback so far that I've seen reported is that mount is sensitive to balance (which I don't really see as a flaw).

[Stu1smartcookie]

2 hours ago, John said:

I've owned a couple of AZ-4's and I've had a close look at an AZ-5. I reckon the AZ-4 might be a bit more robust than the AZ-5 and have a higher capacity. Not a lot in it and the slow motion facility of the AZ-5 might sway you if your scope is not a long / heavy one.

What scope are you intending to put on the mount ?

Weight capacity alone can be misleading - the tube length makes a lot of difference to stability.

A steel tubed tripod (or even better, wood) is definitely worth opting for over the aluminum one.

My 102mm F/6.5 refractor was very comfortable on the AZ-4 with this nice hardwood tripod.

Hi John , I generally only use small scopes ... i have an ST120  FL600 so i suppose thats the heaviest ... when i had my AZ5 on a steel tripod i actually used a 200p !!! ( although not for long as it wobbled more than an excited Jelly ) 

[Stu1smartcookie]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

AZ4 on paper looks more robust and could behave a bit better under heavier load. Specs say that AZ4 should handle up to 6.8Kg while AZ5 up to 5Kg.

The "blurb" that comes with the AZ5 says the carrying capacity can be increased up to 9kgs if a sturdy tripod is used ( i am thinking eq5 standard ) ... i am wondering if its the same for an AZ4 ... 

Maybe i should get a sky-tee .. they seem to be one of the most robust alt az mounts available . 

[Stu1smartcookie]

3 hours ago, John said:

My 102mm F/6.5 refractor was very comfortable on the AZ-4 with this nice hardwood tripod.

As i sell timber for a profession , What type of hardwood do you think that mount is made from , John  

[John]

On 29/07/2021 at 13:30, Stu1smartcookie said:

As i sell timber for a profession , What type of hardwood do you think that mount is made from , John  

No idea

It's a good tripod though - as sturdy as a 2 inch steel tubed one like the EQ6 uses, but lighter.

Ash is the wood used in the well regarded Berlebach tripods.

 

[johninderby]

That looks like the old William Optics walnut tripod. 🤔

[Steve Clay]

On 29/07/2021 at 13:29, Stu1smartcookie said:

The "blurb" that comes with the AZ5 says the carrying capacity can be increased up to 9kgs if a sturdy tripod is used ( i am thinking eq5 standard ) ... i am wondering if its the same for an AZ4 ... 

Maybe i should get a sky-tee .. they seem to be one of the most robust alt az mounts available . 

I'd go skytee. All the possible issues with the Az 4/5 are removed. Also option to dual mount and fit a telrad on the top mount or converted celestron starsense explorer to have a cheap and quite accurate push to.

[johninderby]

Second the Skytee. It may not be made from the best quality materials or have the most accurate machining or be adjusted properly as it comes but most importantly it works very well indeed which is the important thing. May need some adjustment to get the best out of it but simple to do.

I used to have one and was impressed with how well it worked fotr the price.

Definately a best buy  👍🏻

Edited July 30, 2021 by johninderby

[John]

Another vote for the Skytee II here. Not perfect but very capable and a great workhorse.

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

1 hour ago, johninderby said:

Second the Skytee. It may not be made from the best quality materials or have the most accurate machining or be adjusted properly as it comes but most importantly it works very well indeed which is the important thing. May need some adjustment to get the best out of it but simple to do.

I used to have one and was impressed with how well it worked fotr the price.

Definately a best buy  👍🏻

Ok , thanks guys for your recommendation of the SkyTee Please forgive me but I want to play devils advocate here. John you pointed out three reasons which are pretty important why NOT to go for the  SkyTee… lol . What is wrong with the materials and.. not having accurate machining ?? .. ( picture in my head of a disgruntled employee on a Friday afternoon not bothering to set the machine up right ) lol

[johninderby]

It’s a case it being a great mount despite it’s limitations.

The mount is made from the usual Chinese pot metal alloy. Things don’t fit together precisely but as it’s a simple alt-az mount that isn’t so important. Main thing is that they aren’t usually adjusted properly but as mentioned it’s not hard to sort out. Despite it’s price with a little adjustment (mainly to cure backlash) you’ve got a very strong and capable mount with good slo-mo controls at a bargain price.

What you might call being better than the sum of its parts.

Wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by johninderby

[Paz]

I think the AZ4 wins on rigidity but personally I preferred to use a Vixen Porta 2 that is I think similar in nature to the AZ5, only for the benefit of the slow motion controls and accepting a bit less rigidity.

...but I would often use scopes arou d the limit of the porta 2 and wanted less vibes without losing slow motion controls so eventually I got a Skytee 2 and I have never looked back. There are even better mounts than the Skytee 2 but I've found it does everything it is supposed to very well and I don't experience mount-envy.

[johninderby]

One caveat with the Skytee. Don’t overload it by putting a really heavy OTA on it. Keep OTA weight to abput 10kg and you won't have any problems. The manufacturer gives a higher max load but real world experience has shown it's better not to overload it.

This happened to a Skytee I had that I had experimented with a very heavy OTA. 🙀🙀🙀

Bought another Skytee though but didn’t overload the replacement and all was fine.

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

10 hours ago, johninderby said:

One caveat with the Skytee. Don’t overload it by putting a really heavy OTA on it. Keep OTA weight to abput 10kg and you won't have any problems. The manufacturer gives a higher max load but real world experience has shown it's better not to overload it.

This happened to a Skytee I had that I had experimented with a very heavy OTA. 🙀🙀🙀

Bought another Skytee though but didn’t overload the replacement and all was fine.

 

Good advice , John 

[John]

My Skytee II carried my 9.4kg 130mm F/9.2 triplet refractor pretty well all in all. I have now invested in a more substantial mount for that scope now though - I was a little nervous about using the Skytee II for an expensive scope that was close to the limit for the mount 

 

[Basementboy]

Hi Stu, bit late to this, but as someone who has been using an AZ5 on a Skywatcher steel tripod I can attest that tube length matters a lot in terms of wobbling. Supposedly the payload with a steel tripod should be around 9kg (from the AZ5's stated capacity of 5kg), but my 6.4kg 800FL refractor wobbles a lot (and my 6" Newt unusably so). It helps a bit to toggle the mount into the more vertical of its two positions, but even so the OTA jiggles. Incidentally, the mount itself also struggles a bit to hold the weight – you have to turn the screw extremely tight to hold it in place. 

But it's a great mount otherwise: the slow mo controls are really precise and the action is smooth without much backlash. It would be great for a Mak or anything shorter (or lighter).

[Stu1smartcookie]

Hi Chris , the Az5 is a great mount … I think it’s the same on all Az5’s that you have to tighten the lock screws down to let the slow motion controls work .. that part does seem a bit excessive. Bit a great mount … I’ve just replied to your message .