Is purely observing a minority pastime now ?

[JeremyS]

Apologies for posting the same pic as I used on another thread last night, but I think it illustrates my approach to observing.

I spent the first couple of hours from dusk doing photometry of variable stars with the C11 in the dome. All electronic: GoTo, computer CCD. I got satisfaction from the science of this, but also excitement each time I downloaded an image wondering whether a particular 18th or 17th mag star was in outburst. The enjoyment continues later when I measure the brightness in the computer.

I then closed up the obsy and spent an hour with Tessa observing Saturn, then Jupiter. Nothing electronic: no wires or batteries (just the AZ100 slo-mo's which are so smooth!). Seeing was very good and there was a wealth of detail, including colours, to see on both. I enjoyed trying different eyepieces, focal extenders etc, trying to tease out more details. The images of each are etched on my mind and I find myself sitting here with a smile just thinking about it. I took no notes, made no drawings. All for pleasure. 

Whilst all this was going on, I could hear the occasional “ping” from the two obsy laptops connected to the two videocams – each ping records the passing of a meteor (or a midge or aeroplane). I shall process the data later and submit to a meteor database.

Which of these did I enjoy most? You know, I am really not sure. Both telescope sessions, imaging and visual, were “in the moment” and both pleasurable. I have a permanent record from one and delightful picture memories from another.
 

[Spile]

I am totally visual as I prefer the live, bright 3D views.

I will occasionally connect a smartphone mount to my eyepiece to see what I can capture but that is more the exception than the rule. 

[UKDiver]

Currently visual only while I learn how the kit works. Well I would be if sciatica and summer were not getting in my way!

I like to see things with my own eyes, rather than a picture - especially someone elses. In my other (main?) hobby, cheap underwater cameras abound. In some way I think it sad that some go through a dive looking through a viewfinder. My 'viewfinder' is THIS BIG (holds arms out wide) when I'm underwater. I do appreciate than many do like their holiday snaps, even if they never look at them again.

With respect to astronomy, I can appreciate wanting to record what I've seen too, especially if I want to share the experience. It seems to me that astronomy is usually a solo effort - scuba is usually not. Now there is affordable recording kit around, it's easy to take photos that only a few years ago would have been almost impossible for most of us. Now some are just cutting out the middle-man's eyeball and going straight to the camera rather than seeing for themselves.

Adrian

[UKDiver]

22 minutes ago, UKDiver said:

Currently visual only while I learn how the kit works. Well I would be if sciatica and summer were not getting in my way!

I like to see things with my own eyes, rather than a picture - especially someone elses. In my other (main?) hobby, cheap underwater cameras abound. In some way I think it sad that some go through a dive looking through a viewfinder. My 'viewfinder' is THIS BIG (holds arms out wide) when I'm underwater. I do appreciate than many do like their holiday snaps, even if they never look at them again.

With respect to astronomy, I can appreciate wanting to record what I've seen too, especially if I want to share the experience. It seems to me that astronomy is usually a solo effort - scuba is usually not. Now there is affordable recording kit around, it's easy to take photos that only a few years ago would have been almost impossible for most of us. Now some are just cutting out the middle-man's eyeball and going straight to the camera rather than seeing for themselves.

Adrian

Having said that, do FLO have the ZWO sale this time every year? I'm just wondering whether to jump the gun on something I don't yet know enough about...

[Macavity]

I started to made a determined effort to introduce more Visual Observing into
my repertoire! But then my health took a few hits... then "Pandemic" happened. 🙄

When I started Astronomy (late 60's) part of the problem was obtaining a real
telescope at "pocket money" prices? I then had to concentrate on Uni... Job etc.
I gave up Astronomy in the early 70s. Only to be surprised it still existed c.2000. 🥳

Suddenly, I discovered I could actually afford a (much fabled) 3" Refractor -
Actually an ST102! But I still felt a little underwhelmed by views I obtained.
N.B. I was aware that this could well be related to my lack of skills / patience... 😛

I then fell deeply in love with (early integrating Cam) VIDEO Astronomy.
I was always a bit wary (doubtless unfairly) of traditional imaging as a bit
elitist... competitive? [teasing] But then I discovered Solar Imaging! I hope
to try a bit of Radio Astronomy? "Jack of All trades - Master of None"! 🤣

I suppose the only thing that depresses me is seeing one or two other
Astronomers "giving up" totally. Such things also cross my mind too...
Who knows, if spared, I can always try the "Remote Telescope" thing? 🙂

Edited July 21, 2021 by Macavity

[John]

7 hours ago, Whistlin Bob said:

Hi @John- yes, that, and also the trend to needing to have achieved something and 'improved', rather than just be. 

One social media trend that I really hope we don't inherit is the seemingly constant need to post pics to prove people are "having a life" and "moving onwards and upwards". I've even seen that dreadful moronic phrase "pics or it didn't happen" used on another forum 

Interesting to read the breadth of folks opinions though

 

 

 

[Alan White]

Interesting question John.

I can only comment that as per my signature I am a Visual Only astronomer of the most amateur kind possible.
The simplicity, hassle free, utter joy of looking out is reward enough for me still.

I can see why others like imaging or scientific use of images etc. we are all different after all and thank goodness we are.

I bypassed any technology and struggled finding targets from my rubbish local conditions,
I have a Nexus on the dob and am desperate for the same on a mount too, 
But that is technology enough for me.

The joy of the look out from Earth upon the Cosmos in the company of the Badgers, Foxes, Norah the Bat and others,
and the simplicity of it without too much hassle is the tonic I need.

More imagers than visual observers, quite probably these days, but even imagers are known to own an eyepiece or three!
Does that matter, not at all, we all enjoy our version of this fine hobby after all.
 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Alan White
typos of course

[westmarch]

7 minutes ago, Alan White said:

The joy of the look out from Earth upon the Cosmos in the company of the Badgers, Foxes, Norah the Bat and others,
and the simplicity of it without too much hassle is the tonic I need.

you forgot Mossie and Midge but by one of life’s amazing coincidences they are only around when true darkness isn’t .😀

John

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

90% visual and 10% dabbling in imaging....

Interestingly I've noticed a trend for imaging equipment to be sold off. The reasons being 'the weather', 'I don't have time', 'I'm skint' or all the latter combined.

I don't think I'll ever invest in a full imaging set up because of all the above cited reasons!

 

[Franklin]

I've been looking up at the night sky for over 40 years now, equipment nothing special, but never tire of the amazement of it all.

There is definitely a trend towards imaging these days and I'm sure it's all related to digital technology. Back in the day with 35mm film, manually guiding for hours on end, no thanks. But today with all the techno gadgets and fancy GOTO mounts, imaging must be very rewarding for many. I think also that advances in Professional Astronomy has turned many to imaging because the modern Astro Imager can today capture things which only the Pros could do with analogue and the worlds largest telescopes not that long ago.

All of the older books on Amateur Astronomy depict a hobby which still had avenues for doing actual science, which is what sparked my interest as a kid, whereas the more modern literature depicts the hobby as Stargazing for fun and amazement. Just take a look at Sidgwick's Amateur Astronomers Handbook and compare it to Dickinson & Dyer's Backyard Astronomers Guide. I love all the old books and a part of me still wants to believe that it's still possible to do real science in your own back garden with a small telescope. I think in vain. I wonder how many of the Astro Imagers use all this new technology they have at hand to do real science, rather than just taking amazing pictures? Using digital image capture to hunt down new comets or discovering new Nova in distant galaxies for example. I wouldn't think that many.

To that end.........

Does the World need yet another picture of M42 or M31? 

Of course it does!

Astro imaging capabilities today are astonishing and hats off to all who give it a go.

But for me I'll stick with my 4" refractor, a pair of binoculars and my battered old copy of Norton's.

[ONIKKINEN]

I'll add my 2 cents to this as a fairly new guy in the hobby.

I mostly image, but bright and easy objects like the planets and the Moon i do like to observe visually.

I live under horrible bortle8-9 skies, and there is sadly not much to see in terms of deepsky objects. I usually drive a bit out of the city to a bortle 6-7 zone but the story remains the same, not much to observe.

Imaging however is possible under bright skies and i am able to see the objects as i imagined them. It helps that we have maybe 30 suitable nights a year for astronomy, so plenty of time to process pictures. I would imagine a lot of newcomers are from big cities where owning or using big visual scopes is not very convenient and small scopes are drowned in city lights.

 

I havent actually visited a moonless bortle 4 or better with visual in mind yet so my opinions might change when that happens.

[Paul M]

2 hours ago, John said:

I've even seen that dreadful moronic phrase "pics or it didn't happen" used on another forum

Pics or it didn't happen!

[John]

18 minutes ago, Paul M said:

Pics or it didn't happen!

[JeremyS]

[Paul M]

Bang goes another thread...🤣

[Mikekido]

I've been an observer for decades. I kept my Celestar C8 Black Tube for just that reason. I will say that it is the recent (last year and a half or so) increased interest in astrophotography that piqued my interest. When we're to the point that we can star-hop or planisphere to see what we want, I suppose it is the new challenge in the field to try and get a more "quality" image. I already liked shooting "sky" photography (airshows and flight in general), so I suppose astrophotography was the next logical step for me.

I know that I have been offered two different kinds of money for my C8 by two different kinds of hobbyists: fair amounts by those who want to just observe, and obscenely low amounts by photo noobs that say "its focal length is no good for photography so it's just not worth much today" *note: that is an incorrect statement...

I still like to observe and teach kids to observe, so I turn them all down. I think the observers are still out there, they're just quiet.

[JeremyS]

23 minutes ago, Paul M said:

Bang goes another thread...🤣

Must be the heat getting to everyone. I wonder how the ancient Egyptians got those pyramids built in the desert heat.

or did they?

[RT65CB-SWL]

Interesting topic. I am 99.9% in the visual camp. Put it simply, you are a witness, maybe an astronomical piece of history when viewing in real time. As we are approaching the 22nd anniversary of the last solar eclipse of the 20th century on 11th August... I do not think any storage medium, (i.e. film, video tape, CCD, CMOS, etc), can ever replicate that what is seen with the mark one eyeball. I still have 'flashbacks' of the day and I was in awe of watching the Sun's corona during about 2m40s of totality. 

[adyj1]

My 2p.... Started visual, learned the ropes on budget gear but realised that age-related eyesight issues meant that I was always going to be the weak link (and limiting factor) in my visual astronomy journey... 

However I'm a geek. I work with computers all day and would happily do the same all night. The first time I put a smartphone to my 25mm bog-standard skywatcher ep on an old 90mm refractor and took a blurry picture of the Orion nebula I was hooked. I get a thrill out of AP and an equal thrill out of computers, wires and associated tech gubbins. 

I still dabble in the visual arts - the binos get regular casual use, and I have a 152mm Mak-Cass that I really must get sorted for planetary - but AP does it for me.

[MarsG76]

Possibly so.. but I dare say that it's mainly because of a lack of time... if I had more time to observe, I'd be observing much more, possibly every moon and cloud less night.

[Alien 13]

I do think modern tech will change things, even my smart-phone can now do long exp imaging without a scope provided its mounted somehow, this can only bring more people into the fold but perhaps from an opposing direction.

The future....

Alan

Edited July 21, 2021 by Alien 13

[niallk]

On 20/07/2021 at 14:39, John said:

I think that is what has always put me off imaging to be honest.

When I was working I spent all day working with computers so for my hobby I wanted something with as little tech as possible. Probably also why I use manual alt-az mounts as well. I like to keep it as simple as it can possibly be.

Good to hear what motivates others though - all are welcome in the Stargazers Lounge

Me too: I'm an electronic engineer so should enjoy mucking around with hardware and software, but I just like the "simplicity" of two mirrors, an EP, and a dob mount.  Nothing like seeing things with your own eyes, imho!

I also just love the peacefulness of being out under the stars, with big skies and low horizons if I go to a spot on the coast to observe - and the sounds of birds on the Marsh and the waves lapping on the shore.  Its good for the soul.  The last thing I want is wrestling with a dodgy connector or a software error 😂

That said, I did pick up one of those smartphone holders that clamps onto an EP - in a vain attempt to capture something to show to others what the telescope can do.  Let's just say Damien Peach needn't be worried 😂  

[johninderby]

I wonder if it’s a case of for those who  have worked with computers or in other tech professions imaging is a bit too much like work rather than a hobby. 🤔

[Pixies]

1 hour ago, johninderby said:

I wonder if it’s a case of for those who  have worked with computers or in other tech professions imaging is a bit too much like work rather than a hobby. 🤔

Perhaps. Although none of us appear too averse to spending hours upon hours on here!

[johninderby]

There may indeed be a bit of this going on. 😁

……….ing

Edited July 21, 2021 by johninderby