Red dot or finderscope?

[Tiny Clanger]

1 hour ago, PeterStudz said:

......

Although I haven’t used a Telrad/Rigel I can’t see the point as most of the time I wouldn’t see anything in the viewfinder. At a darker site then I can see how they’d be very handy. 

 

The point is that you have circles of known size  (two on the Rigel at 0.5 of a degree and 2 degrees , three on the Telrad, which has an additional outer circle, 4 degrees if I recall correctly ? )

Using a star map, or app , you can make a note (in advance on paper if you wish, which is often what I do, sometimes on a free printed out starmap ) of the angular distance between a bright star  and an object you want to find,  but which may be too faint for an optical finder. So,  for instance , the Crescent Nebula , 3 deg. from Sadr, the centre star of the Cygnus cross. I got Sadr centred in the Rigel inner circle,  shifted the 'scope the correct direction to move towards the nebula until  Sadr was on the 2 deg. circle,  then estimated a  further 1 degree shift, using the 2 deg. circle to gauge it.

The optical  finders I have (a 9x50 RACI on the dob, a smaller 6x30 on the mak where the bigger finder just seems too large by comparison) have, as far as I have been able to ascertain, a FOV of approximately 6 degrees, but I've not been able to track down precise info on them.

The fact I couldn't flippin' see that particular nebula (which is why I still  have the note about where to look for it) , despite knowing I was looking straight at it, is down to the bright summer night plus local light pollution ! But I tried, and I'll try again, and one night ...

The system has worked perfectly well for me to find plenty of other faint stuff , and I really miss the Rigel's circles when using my heritage dob ... I haven't worked out a way to mount the Rigel on it in a place I can actually use it yet, so am stuck with the stock RDF on its tiny flimsy non-standard fitting.  If some smart individual can design and 3d print a suitable platform to fit the little block for the RDF,  and stick a Rigel base to, I'd be very happy to buy one ...

Heather

[PeterStudz]

Yes, I know about the circles and completely understand how they work. However, most of the time I can’t see the target star in my Bortle 8 sky with the naked eye. Now, in the example above I can see Sadr with the naked eye but if I can’t what then?

[Spile]

19 hours ago, Pixies said:

The FLO Astro Essentials on is pretty good, apparently. It look just like the SW one, so could well be made by the same factory.

But put a wanted ad up on this site, you might get lucky.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Spile

[Spile]

19 hours ago, Pixies said:

The FLO Astro Essentials on is pretty good, apparently. It look just like the SW one, so could well be made by the same factory.

But put a wanted ad up on this site, you might get lucky.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Spile

[Spile]

19 hours ago, Pixies said:

The FLO Astro Essentials on is pretty good, apparently. It look just like the SW one, so could well be made by the same factory.

But put a wanted ad up on this site, you might get lucky.

That is the one I have. It works fine and is reasonably priced.

Sorry for blank posts - cannot find the delete button 😞 so mods please remove two posts above

Edited June 12, 2021 by Spile

[Spile]

On 12/06/2021 at 13:32, PeterStudz said:

Yes, I know about the circles and completely understand how they work. However, most of the time I can’t see the target star in my Bortle 8 sky with the naked eye. Now, in the example above I can see Sadr with the naked eye but if I can’t what then?

In which I would only use the non magnifying finder when locating the closest naked eye object, then moving onto the RACI from that point. Personally I cannot use the RACI for the first point of location. The straight through finder was easier in that respect but my back didn't cope well with that.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Spile

[PeterStudz]

5 minutes ago, Spile said:

In which I would only use the non magnifying finder when locating the closest naked eye object, then moving onto the RACI from that point. Personally I cannot use the RACI for the first point of location. The traight through finder was easier in that respect but my back didn't cope well with that.

OK, that’s basically what I do with when using a simple red dot finder plus RACI. I do usually print out a star chart when trying to find something for the first time and pattern match in the RACI.

[Tiny Clanger]

15 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

Yes, I know about the circles and completely understand how they work. However, most of the time I can’t see the target star in my Bortle 8 sky with the naked eye. Now, in the example above I can see Sadr with the naked eye but if I can’t what then?

You start at the closest star you can see, and work from there.

If the angular distances are greater than , say 3 or 4 hops of the greatest  red finder circles diameter,  then, for me,  the  RACI will be a better choice ... I don't want to be doing the equivalent of measuring a room with a 15cm ruler . That's why I have both RACI and Rigel, in some situations one is better than the other. In situations where I'm finding it really hard to locate an object with both finders, and there are few stars nearby to hop from, I use a small, cheap electronic level which gives me a precise alt reading for the 'scope tube, (taking the alt/az from stellarium , other programs & apps are available) which means I only need to pan the az dimension. The levels are often referred to as Wixies on forums, which I believe is/was a trade name. Probably the most useful £10 astro purchase I'll  ever make. Worth checking out information on DIY setting circles too for the az dimension.

When I bought the mak, I thought I could get by with the stock RDF only , turned out it was frustrating not to have a RACI, so the single shoe on the mak was used to hold a RACI instead. Now I missed having an RDF available  (and I'm too much of a wuss to take the mak apart and drill it to fit a new one, doing that to my dob was nerve wracking enough !) So I bought the Rigel primarily because of its stick-on base.

Subsequent use has shown me that it was an accidental excellent buy , I never anticipated how useful  those circles would turn out to be for me.

[Broadymike]

On 12/06/2021 at 13:36, Spile said:

That is the one I have. It works fine and is reasonably priced.

Sorry for blank posts - cannot find the delete button 😞 so mods please remove two posts above

I had seen that one while browsing. Like you say reasonably priced. I'm generally a bit sceptical about cheap things but all the reviews I've seen are positive.  

[Broadymike]

Well thanks again all for your advice. I got the rigel quickfinder a couple of weeks ago and tonight has been the first clear skies to try it out, FLO obviously put a few too many clouds in the box lol.  Unfortunately an early start in the morning so had just a quick hour ish to test it out.  

 

What a great bit of kit! Super easy to install it on the OTA and took just a few seconds to get it aligned using the control tower of the wind farm 6 miles or so out to sea as a nice easy static target. Slewed the scope up to lyra popped Vega in the middle of the circles looked through the eyepiece and it was dead centre. Using the circles found epsilon lyrae in a flash even got the best separation on both doubles I've got so far, although this is probably because I think  I've also got my collimation spot on now. Mizar and Alcor was the only other target I looked at found them really easily again  and again got really good separation of Mizar. 

 

So all in all a nice short evening playing with the new finder. Just need some clear skies when I've also got not reason to be up early lol.  

[jacobingonzo]

Yeah the quick finder is a neat piece of kit - glad you had a good, if short session . First clears night here for ages -used the rigel to pinpoint Shellak and Sullafat and then homed straight onto M57 The Ring Nebula!!- the only problem I have with the rigel is remembering to turn the bloody thing off when im finished!!!

[Broadymike]

I was very careful last night to remember to turn it off lol. Looking like may get a few clear nights over the next week or so, so hopefully will be able to get out.  

[Stuu]

2 hours ago, Broadymike said:

I was very careful last night to remember to turn it off lol. Looking like may get a few clear nights over the next week or so, so hopefully will be able to get out.  

The rigel and 9x50 RACI are a great combination. I've got them on my 6" newtonian and it makes it so easy to line up targets with the rigel then do some fine tuning on the 9x50. 

[Broadymike]

11 hours ago, Stuu said:

The rigel and 9x50 RACI are a great combination. I've got them on my 6" newtonian and it makes it so easy to line up targets with the rigel then do some fine tuning on the 9x50. 

The 9x50 RACI is going to be my next purchase. Just need that bit of magnification now to help with some of the harder to find DSOs. Once I've got that and a decent 32mm EP I'm pretty much all set with what I would call my basic set up. Eventually I will want to upgrade my scope but more than happy with what I have now. A celestron powerseeker 114eq, 4mm, 10mm and 25mm plossls, 20mm Kelner, 2x and 3x barlow and the rigel has only cost me just under £100. The rigel was new from FLO, the 114eq,  3x barlow and 20mm kelner £35 from fb marketplace and the plossls and 2x barlow £15 also from fb. Wasnt intending on getting any gear yet as covid has hit my wallet quite badly as I'm a musician, but as they were such bargains I couldn't resist. 

[Stuu]

14 hours ago, Broadymike said:

The 9x50 RACI is going to be my next purchase. Just need that bit of magnification now to help with some of the harder to find DSOs. Once I've got that and a decent 32mm EP I'm pretty much all set with what I would call my basic set up. Eventually I will want to upgrade my scope but more than happy with what I have now. A celestron powerseeker 114eq, 4mm, 10mm and 25mm plossls, 20mm Kelner, 2x and 3x barlow and the rigel has only cost me just under £100. The rigel was new from FLO, the 114eq,  3x barlow and 20mm kelner £35 from fb marketplace and the plossls and 2x barlow £15 also from fb. Wasnt intending on getting any gear yet as covid has hit my wallet quite badly as I'm a musician, but as they were such bargains I couldn't resist. 

Looks like you've got most bases covered with all that gear. Hopefully you've got some clear skies heading your way this weekend to have a good session. I've only been doing it about a year or so, the trouble is my wishlist just keeps getting longer

[Broadymike]

4 hours ago, Stuu said:

Looks like you've got most bases covered with all that gear. Hopefully you've got some clear skies heading your way this weekend to have a good session. I've only been doing it about a year or so, the trouble is my wishlist just keeps getting longer

I'm still really new just a couple of months really. I wouldn't normally have bought all that gear it's just it all came up for so cheap. By the time I get the RACI I still won't have spent as much as buying the 114 brand new so i can't really complain at all. 

Looking like it should be a good night tonight. Certainly lovely clear skies at the moment.