Rusty old Vixen Super Polaris

[Pixies]

I bought a secondhand Vixen Custom-80M refractor a few days ago. I wasn't after a mount or tripod, but this came with such. Unfortunately it appears to have been stored outside or somewhere not very dry. The scope is in great condition, though. The fact that this is effectively free means I can happily try to fix it and smarten it up as a summer project. When done, I can keep it or sell it on. 

The tripod looks pretty much junk. However, the actual mount appears to work perfectly but is suffering mainly cosmetic issues. All screws/bolts/grubs appear corroded on external faces. Any chrome (slo-mo controls, counterweight-bar, etc.) is peeling.

Needing fixed: The RA slo-mo rod is bent, as is the counterweight bar. The rod end is missing too. The RA clutch lever is snapped.

 

So dear reader - do you know of any service manuals or sources of spare parts? Do you have any tips or experience with such work that you are willing to share? I've seen a previous post (from many years ago) which has an exploded parts diagram. I don't imagine there are any sources of spares in Europe, let alone the UK.

Also - any suggestions for a suitable tripod?

Cheers

Neil.

 

[NGC 1502]

You mention the mount works fine but has cosmetic issues. FWIW, here’s what I would do-

If it’s working ok I wouldn’t strip it down. I’d remove the peeling chrome as best I could, rub down with fine emery paper, treat with Kurust or similar, repaint with silver paint. Done carefully it should look fine. Of course the bent bits will need straightening, a good solid vice with padded jaws and a bit of grunt should sort it. Some steel tubing would give more leverage.

As for the tripod, if the legs are rubbish I’d make new wooden ones fitted to the original tripod head. I’m guessing the tripod head should be ok. An alternative could be a Skywatcher steel tripod, these come up second hand sometimes. You may find something at ENS Birmingham, top prices but I’ve found the descriptions are honest and a reliable service. I’ve adapted several tripods to fit various mounts, with a bit of thought and a basic workshop there’s usually a way that works.

A nice summer project, have fun 👍 Ed.

[skybadger]

That looks like the standard vixen tripod to me. If you don't rate it, I'll have it. They tend to work well. 

[Roy Challen]

Apart from the clutch lever, it looks easy enough to make good. A skywatcher lever may fit, but would look out of place, and I'd be surprised if you found just that part on its own.

What's wrong with the tripod? Looks fine to me, but a wooden one would look nicer although not necessary really.

If it were mine, I'd definitely fix it up, it's a great mount - I just bought its little brother, the Polaris.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Roy Challen

[Pixies]

11 hours ago, NGC 1502 said:

You mention the mount works fine but has cosmetic issues. FWIW, here’s what I would do-

If it’s working ok I wouldn’t strip it down. I’d remove the peeling chrome as best I could, rub down with fine emery paper, treat with Kurust or similar, repaint with silver paint. Done carefully it should look fine. Of course the bent bits will need straightening, a good solid vice with padded jaws and a bit of grunt should sort it. Some steel tubing would give more leverage.

As for the tripod, if the legs are rubbish I’d make new wooden ones fitted to the original tripod head. I’m guessing the tripod head should be ok. An alternative could be a Skywatcher steel tripod, these come up second hand sometimes. You may find something at ENS Birmingham, top prices but I’ve found the descriptions are honest and a reliable service. I’ve adapted several tripods to fit various mounts, with a bit of thought and a basic workshop there’s usually a way that works.

A nice summer project, have fun 👍 Ed.

Note taken about not stripping it down. I've seen plenty of posts recently about getting the lubrication wrong and then the mount starts playing up.

However, the perfectionist in me wants to replace/fix anything rusty. So the various bolts, grubs, etc. I'll source new stainless versions and replace them all. I'm assuming that if I do everything one-by-one, nothing will spring open or fall apart.

[Pixies]

11 hours ago, skybadger said:

That looks like the standard vixen tripod to me. If you don't rate it, I'll have it. They tend to work well. 

 

10 hours ago, Roy Challen said:

Apart from the clutch lever, it looks easy enough to make good. A skywatcher lever may fit, but would look out of place, and I'd be surprised if you found just that part on its own.

What's wrong with the tripod? Looks fine to me, but a wooden one would look nicer although not necessary really.

If it were mine, I'd definitely fix it up, it's a great mount - I just bought its little brother, the Polaris.

I've probably been a bit hasty in my dismissal of the tripod. It is missing a few bits and pieces and the spreader is rusting away. It definitely requires more work than the mount itself. I do fancy a wooden one, but my woodworking skills fall far behind my metalworking. If I can't fix the legs, I'll see if I can fit the head to a wooden tripod of some kind.

[F15Rules]

A wooden tripod would suit the SP very well - and would be more stable too, with less vibrations.

If money was no object, I'd recommend practically any Berlebach tripod..a great used option if you could find one (maybe advertise here or on UKABS?) would be an actual Vixen wooden tripod or a Russian TAL tripod from a Tal 100 R scope..great tripods both of them.

The SP is a lovely mount, like it's later sibling the Great Polaris, (I've owned both, I have my SP to my son in law and have a GP at the moment), and the engineering is streets ahead of the Skywatcher clones..very much worth a bit of effort to restore, and will last you another 25 years if you want it to. 

Great find!👍

Dave

[cotterless45]

That brings back memories ! I bought a 102 SP on the same mount , but with RA and Dec motors. It had all been most poorly kept and the lovely Vixen green was a grunge colour !

The tripod was a bit lightweight. I took the legs off and filled them with wet mortar mix. When set , they were most sturdy but blooming heavy. The eyepiece bowl was missing , so I drilled out a round oven tray with anti slip rubber on top and fitted it to the middle of the tripod arms. It was the most beautiful mount to use , a bit of rust didn't worry me in the dark.

I later bought an ADM puck and vixen saddle to fit Vixen dovetails.

https://www.admaccessories.com/product/vsad-sp-v-series-saddle-fits-vixen-super-polaris-mounts/

Although the original fixing was great with that scope.Everything engineered to tolerance , like the sweet dust cap on the ôta.

Then like a complete idiot , I sold it. Kept the ôta ( thankfully) .

Don't make the same mistake. There is more joy in fixing up the unloved than buying new stuff and being afraid to tinker with it .

careful now and darker skies ! Nick.

Edited June 3, 2021 by cotterless45

[Pixies]

Yey! The polar scope illuminator still works!

The old battery was still in there. Lots of blue fuzzy corrosion to remove (and my fingers are still a bit 'stingy')

A quick question about the mount, and I can't see anything in the manual. What is this knob for?:

[Roy Challen]

Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is the Dec axis lock knob when in alt-az mode. 

My Polaris can operate in eq and alt-az, so I'm assuming that the SP can too.

[dweller25]

37 minutes ago, Pixies said:

Yey! The polar scope illuminator still works!

The old battery was still in there. Lots of blue fuzzy corrosion to remove (and my fingers are still a bit 'stingy')

A quick question about the mount, and I can't see anything in the manual. What is this knob for?:

That entire plate is a modification by Astro Systems of Bedford (Rob Miller).

It makes the mount stronger and sturdier than as supplied by Vixen.

The black knob is for adjustment.

[Pixies]

4 hours ago, dweller25 said:

That entire plate is a modification by Astro Systems of Bedford (Rob Miller).

It makes the mount stronger and sturdier than as supplied by Vixen.

The black knob is for adjustment.

Just been reading the following thread - is that the modification you mention?

 

However, it looks different to what I have:

Mine:

Astro Systems:

 

in fact, the black knob shows up in the Vixen exploded diagram:

 

So I'm not sure of that is the aforementioned modification.

 

 

[Stu]

8 hours ago, Pixies said:

Just been reading the following thread - is that the modification you mention?

 

However, it looks different to what I have:

Mine:

Astro Systems:

 

in fact, the black knob shows up in the Vixen exploded diagram:

 

So I'm not sure of that is the aforementioned modification.

 

 

Yes, I think that is the original plate. I had a Super Polaris which I sold to @paulastro which had both the original and the modified plates (if I recall correctly). The modified one was fitted. It is related to locking the Alt axis, but I confess I was always a little mystified by it! 🤪🤪

 

[dweller25]

9 hours ago, Pixies said:

Just been reading the following thread - is that the modification you mention?

 

However, it looks different to what I have:

Mine:

Astro Systems:

 

in fact, the black knob shows up in the Vixen exploded diagram:

 

So I'm not sure of that is the aforementioned modification.

 

 

Apologies - you do have the original Vixen setup not the modified one 

[Pixies]

Hmmm. The outside of the RA worm shaft has been bent, where the slo-mo control must have been leant on.

There's no binding with the gears, so I'm assuming that the bend is on the outside of the gear housing.

Now - do I try to bend it back, or just put up with it? Brass work-hardens, I believe. 

[Pixies]

Now - just to complicate matters. I've found a Vixen motor drive and hand controller, but it attaches to that side of the worm shaft, doesn't it! 🤦‍♂️

[vineyard]

I'll follow this w interest!  I have an old SP - perhaps marginally better condition than yours (less rust & less bending, but also in need of a little TLC...I suspect its the original grease still in there).  Its a lovely mount - I've already tinkered on some Vixen motors on both RA & DEC axes (had already taken them off an older GP2 when I converted that to go-to).  And with those it works a treat for visual & also for lunar/planetary lucky imaging - tracks well, next to no noise, and no need to keep fiddling with the slo-mo knobs.  This is why I want just give it some TLC in due course on the re-greasing.  (Will post some photos once its stops raining as its kept in a shed).

I know what you mean about the tripod.  Wooden legs would definitely be an improvement - the difference in dampening is huge vs a wooden tripod I use for an alt-az mount.  My biggest frutstration with that tripod head (I suspect you have a similar age one) is that the North pin has a tapered base.  So a lot of the current market base conversions don't fit (unless you file the base!).  I think a SW pier extension does (from memory, I may be mistaken) but that changes the green livery.  If there is such a thing as original colour scheme Vixen pier extension, that would be great.  (I typically put either a TM2 or a Vixen 102M on it & have found the legs get in the way for zenith).

Pls do post photos as you work on it!

(PS - yes if I remember correctly that black knob is for changing it from alt-az configuration to eq & vice versa - you'll also have to undo the central hex thing in there to do that)

Edited June 4, 2021 by vineyard
added PS

[Neko]

21 hours ago, Pixies said:

Yey! The polar scope illuminator still works!

The old battery was still in there. Lots of blue fuzzy corrosion to remove (and my fingers are still a bit 'stingy')

A quick question about the mount, and I can't see anything in the manual. What is this knob for?:

That black knob is for fixing the latitude. But I've found it very ineffective, and to me it also producing some tilt to the axis in the mount. 

It would be the old version of the nowadays screw on front that stops the whole mount to move  in latitude. 

In that post you mentioned ive fone a mod for it. Is not great, but linda works better than this 

The tripod is lile mine, but yours is taller : ) 

about the bent part, I think you could get a compatible eq3 or eq5 psrt for it. 

 

[Neko]

https://teleskop-austria.com/WormEQ3#m

You could measure yoirs and check with the shop,  but considering that eq3, eq5 snd others are  copies of vixen polaris /super polaris/great polaris, i think it could be compatible 

 

[Pixies]

16 minutes ago, Neko said:

https://teleskop-austria.com/WormEQ3#m

You could measure yoirs and check with the shop,  but considering that eq3, eq5 snd others are  copies of vixen polaris /super polaris/great polaris, i think it could be compatible 

 

Many thanks. I've also just found this:

If the Vixen worm shaft is symmetrical too, I will just need to turn it around. Alternatively, I could swap it with the Dec one, and use the flexible slo-mo control, which will be less badly affected.

 

[Neko]

Sure, you can turn it around, but look at the worm in case is not damaged. Sometimes bending was the result of over tightening de mesh... When i got mine (second had too, many years ago ) it was also bent. So I've replaced it. You can try that "fix" or just  get a replacement.  All depends if it will be for visual only or AP

Recently one of mines had the worm a bit bumped.. looking closer.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Neko

[skybadger]

On 03/06/2021 at 18:25, Pixies said:

Yey! The polar scope illuminator still works!

The old battery was still in there. Lots of blue fuzzy corrosion to remove (and my fingers are still a bit 'stingy')

A quick question about the mount, and I can't see anything in the manual. What is this knob for?:

The knob is an indexing clamp for course latitude adjustment.  underneath there is an indexed plate, release the knob, move the mount by an index (think gear teeth or splines) and retighten, then fine adjust for latitude using the screws. It came like that from the manufacturer. Some people removed them as they were a bit 'fussy' sometimes to setup. 

[Neko]

1 hour ago, skybadger said:

The knob is an indexing clamp for course latitude adjustment.  underneath there is an indexed plate, release the knob, move the mount by an index (think gear teeth or splines) and retighten, then fine adjust for latitude using the screws. It came like that from the manufacturer. Some people removed them as they were a bit 'fussy' sometimes to setup. 

Yes, I've taken down the whole mount few times.  That indexed plate limits to some degrees the amount of latitude to be sdjusted. If doesn't reach, needs to loosen the main screw, move the outer plate that keeps presure with an Spring, then tight again. 

Still , if you had adjusted your polar alignment with polar scope, and when youre ready , tighten that black knob , you'll see polaris position shifting.. even if you just stand at the back of the mount and tight that knob, you'll see a tilt.   Since I discovered that, i leave it loose, and insted installed that screw in front. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Guess because that issue, later models (including vixen SP-DX, GP, GP-DX...and clones ) have already an screw fixing in front lile this one;

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Neko
Spelling mistyped

[skybadger]

The point is really to rough adjust using the black known and then fine adjust using the screws. No slip that way. I sold my sp after putting LX belt drive on it. . Still have a Dx with ss2k. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by skybadger

[Neko]

2 hours ago, skybadger said:

The point is really to rough adjust using the black known and then fine adjust using the screws. No slip that way. I sold my sp after putting LX belt drive on it. . Still have a Dx with ss2k. 

 Not that it slips.. but sometimes when changing direction it might move; itbhappen to me that PHD2 reporting. polar alignment value and a different one when changing direction or area of sky. Hence why..

 

What's the LX belt ? I have ss2kPC on my SP, but was thinking on modding with belt.  As a Japanese friend who has done it with GP told me, it is hard to get proper tension, as it doesn't have a good way to do it in that mount. 

 

Would like to know your experience with belts in an SP