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The Floor Strikes Back and A New Hope


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Vixen, but I believe it was user error rather than the dovetail. It slid when elevated as the clamp was too loose. I may have loosened the clamp when I meant to loosen something else. Too many things needed adjustment at the same time...

 

 

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1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

Wow, that image of your DC's lens caused me to almost use an expletive.  I'm really sorry your DC is no more, but at least your insurance takes a little of the sting out of it.  I have had  beautiful DC, which I loved, but I couldn't resist the DZ with its claim of better colour correction.  My DC didn't show any false colour and neither does my DZ, so the actual advantage eludes me slightly. The DZ is certainly capable of high power, but I used my DC on occasion at 474X, so it was no slouch either.  I can't honestly say the DZ is noticeably better than the DC as I wasn't able to run them side by side. The DZ seems to be a little cooler optically, and with a better focuser (same as DF). The DZ tube is shorter but the retractable dew shield doesn't extend any further beyond the lens cell than the DC or DF, just 80mm. Can't say I've noticed a flatter field with the DZ but I haven't really looked for it. If you loved the DC you'll almost certainly love the DZ, but whether its worth the difference in price can only be answered on a personal level. You already have a tube clamp so that makes the purchase a bit cheaper. I suppose it makes sense to buy the DZ if you're looking for top end optics in a doublet 4" refractor that's currently in production. I'm just not certain that the DZ will do anything that the DC or DF couldn't also do.

 

Very very helpful Mike, exactly the input I needed.

When you say the DZ is shorter, I guess you mean shorter when stowed? That's not an issue for me as I have the 76DCU for air lines.

Presumably when in use the DZ is longer than a DC - is this noticeable? I am getting bored of kneeling down to observe the zenith (using a 127/952 Apo) and the FC-76 is wonderful as it doesn't have this issue.  This is leaning me back toward a new DC.

 

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18 hours ago, Commanderfish said:

I've actually decided that whichever scope I buy, I won't replace the entire focuser with a Feathertouch. I might put an FT pinion on, but not a whole focuser. This is for cosmetic reasons.

So then I need to decide whether the DC has enough travel. It does have enough for all my 2" EPs, but once I put on binoviewers with a Tak prism I might need more back focus?

This can usually be solved with extensions though... Just wondering is switching from 2" to 1.25" prism and binoviewers will.be a nuisance.

The first line of your original post would sum up my exact feelings "The End of the World" 😫 

For me the DF would make a lot of sense If you are fitting a FT Pinion Focuser,  you would have the extra travel on the focuser, a 2" visual back whilst retaining the Takahashi originality. I have one fitted to my DL and love it. 

 

Edited by jock1958
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26 minutes ago, jock1958 said:

The first line of your original post would some up my exact feelings "The End of the World" 😫 

For me the DF would make a lot of sense If you are fitting a FT Pinion Focuser,  you would have the extra travel on the focuser, a 2" visual back whilst retaining the Takahashi originality. I have one fitted to my DL and love it. 

 

I agree. One problem, the wait time for DFs is measured in months. I actually wonder if they're making any more now the DZ is out.

Edited by Commanderfish
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50 minutes ago, Commanderfish said:

I may have loosened the clamp when I meant to loosen something else.

I have nearly done that on a few occasions, intending to loosen the clutch knob or top knob on an Ercole or giro mount, and instead starting to loosen the clamp. A timely reminder for us all to be sure which knob is being loosened!

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3 minutes ago, Commanderfish said:

I agree. One problem, the wait time for DFs is measured in months. I actually wonder if they're making any.

Have you tried other UK vendors like RVO & Widescreen Centre? or you sticking with FLO?

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7 minutes ago, Stu said:

I have nearly done that on a few occasions, intending to loosen the clutch knob or top knob on an Ercole or giro mount, and instead starting to loosen the clamp. A timely reminder for us all to be sure which knob is being loosened!

I like the twin knobs on the ADM clamps for that reason. If you accidentally loosen one, the other still grips at least some of the dovetail bar.

 

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Sorry to hear and see this,  but glad you are getting it sorted out.  I very nearly dropped my StellaLyra 6 the other day trying to take it off the mount, so I have got a handle coming tomorrow.

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8 minutes ago, jock1958 said:

Have you tried other UK vendors like RVO & Widescreen Centre? or you sticking with FLO?

I would like to stick with FLO due to all the support on this issue, but RVO are saying July before they get any DCs anyway. Haven't tried wide-screen centre.

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5 minutes ago, John said:

I like the twin knobs on the ADM clamps for that reason. If you accidentally loosen one, the other still grips at least some of the dovetail bar.

 

That's a great idea; I have a spare twin knob clamp, I will swap it onto that mount...

 

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23 minutes ago, John said:

I like the twin knobs on the ADM clamps for that reason. If you accidentally loosen one, the other still grips at least some of the dovetail bar.

 

Good point!!

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20 minutes ago, Dave61 said:

so I have got a handle coming tomorrow

Oh no! Is that the next piece of Astro kit which will be in shortage now 😱😱🤣🤣🤪🤪

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2 hours ago, Commanderfish said:

Very very helpful Mike, exactly the input I needed.

When you say the DZ is shorter, I guess you mean shorter when stowed? That's not an issue for me as I have the 76DCU for air lines.

Presumably when in use the DZ is longer than a DC - is this noticeable? I am getting bored of kneeling down to observe the zenith (using a 127/952 Apo) and the FC-76 is wonderful as it doesn't have this issue.  This is leaning me back toward a new DC.

 

I'm glad the info is of some help.  The DZ is physically a little longer when extended than the DC/DF as it has an FL of 800mm rather than 740mm, but it isn't really that noticeable to me, where as the DL at 900mm made me stretch to reach my slow motion controls on my GP. I admit my back appreciates the smaller arc in movement of the DC/DF & DZ as comfort in use is a big thing for me. I can sit or stand at the eyepiece without getting in any strange positions, which helps with concentration while observing.  I've attached a pic of my DC and DZ showing their relative positions on the mount, so as you can see, there's not a great deal in it.

1553711713629_IMG_0598.JPG.37daab2444ea897dbe51c43ca0106caf.thumb.jpeg.72af2362a9a3420980b70fa9f389fafd.jpegIMG_5970.JPG.adad38ecf1562debdd8eaff340fa82fc.JPG

And DC & DZ as Altaz grab & go. Both very easy to handle!

588b96194f0bd_2016-10-2513_11_46.jpg.14106ab15a9e12f5f85c2d8a772da72c.thumb.jpg.d0f69a636ea9bd262f97c1aa8770d435.jpg849378498_2021-01-1822_13_53.png.91e7da98a6fe61d1cd2c61feb120d310.png

 

Edited by mikeDnight
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1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

I'm glad the info is of some help.  The DZ is physically a little longer when extended than the DC/DF as it has an FL of 800mm rather than 740mm, but it isn't really that noticeable to me, where as the DL at 900mm made me stretch to reach my slow motion controls on my GP. I admit my back appreciates the smaller arc in movement of the DC/DF & DZ as comfort in use is a big thing for me. I can sit or stand at the eyepiece without getting in any strange positions, which helps with concentration while observing.  I've attached a pic of my DC and DZ showing their relative positions on the mount, so as you can see, there's not a great deal in it.

1553711713629_IMG_0598.JPG.37daab2444ea897dbe51c43ca0106caf.thumb.jpeg.72af2362a9a3420980b70fa9f389fafd.jpegIMG_5970.JPG.adad38ecf1562debdd8eaff340fa82fc.JPG

And DC & DZ as Altaz grab & go. Both very easy to handle!

588b96194f0bd_2016-10-2513_11_46.jpg.14106ab15a9e12f5f85c2d8a772da72c.thumb.jpg.d0f69a636ea9bd262f97c1aa8770d435.jpg849378498_2021-01-1822_13_53.png.91e7da98a6fe61d1cd2c61feb120d310.png

 

Actually I meant to ask, are you able to bring binoviewers to focus without a GPC or Barlow in the DZ? 

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9 minutes ago, Commanderfish said:

Actually I meant to ask, are you able to bring binoviewers to focus without a GPC or Barlow in the DZ? 

Yes, I can with the eyepieces I use at least. My binoviewer pairs range from 35mm to 7.5mm and using the Tak 1.25" prism, all reach focus. The 35mm pair are as close to max inward focus as they can get but they do focus. With the Baader BBHS prism and helical micro focuser the don't,  Having said that, I don't often use the 35mm's in the binoviewer. I generally use my binoviewer with a 2X Ultima SV barlow along with 25mm Parks or 18mm Ultima's for lunar & planetary observing.

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2 hours ago, PeterW said:

I remember @Stus sad looking dented reflector. In that case a hammer could fix, not an option for you. Good to hear you’ve got it sorted.

Peter

As a refractor only man, I actually thought Stu's picture was the nicest pic of a ship's funnel, sorry, reflector, I've ever seen!😋😂😂

Dave

PS: only joking..:hiding:😊

 

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I was changing the focusser on a reflector tube and might have put a wee dent in it trying to get the mirror cell back in….. slightly sitting on it. not that anyone noticed.

Peter

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3 hours ago, John said:

I like the twin knobs on the ADM clamps for that reason. If you accidentally loosen one, the other still grips at least some of the dovetail bar.

 

I should think that "tube security" on the mount is probably the single most important thing on most of our minds when setting up/taking down our kit?

It's one of the reasons I really like the Tak tube clamp so much, and also why I like my Tak mount so much too..my FS128 is a large tube, (tube diameter 145mm, dewshield diameter 180mm), so the clamshell is large too.. because I use a Tak EM2 mount with it, the clamshell bolts straight into the inbuilt threaded holes in the mount itself, so it's physically impossible for the clamshell to detach from the mount, and no dovetail is needed.

And the clamshell knob is so large, and such a distinctive shape that it's virtually impossible to mistake it for any other lever or knob..😉

I do have to loosen the clamshell to rotate the tube in certain orientations, but at least then I know which knob I'm turning..and I have memorized how many hand turns of the clamshell knob are needed before the clamp loosens sufficiently to allow the tube to rotate..(it's 20 turns!). And I support the tube down by the focuser end with one hand before beginning to rotate the tube with the other.

Dave

Edited by F15Rules
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Looking at these photos gives me the heebie jeebies.

Next time I set-up for an imaging session I am going to have to lay down some sort of padded terrain before hand.  I wonder if setting-up on a bouncy castle would work...🤔

On a serious note, sorry to hear about this @Commanderfish 

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47 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Yes, I can with the eyepieces I use at least. My binoviewer pairs range from 35mm to 7.5mm and using the Tak 1.25" prism, all reach focus. The 35mm pair are as close to max inward focus as they can get but they do focus. With the Baader BBHS prism and helical micro focuser the don't,  Having said that, I don't often use the 35mm's in the binoviewer. I generally use my binoviewer with a 2X Ultima SV barlow along with 25mm Parks or 18mm Ultima's for lunar & planetary observing.

What do you think of the stock focuser in the DZ, Mike? Have you kept it?

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9 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I should think that "tube security" on the mount is probably the single most important thing on most of our minds when setting up/taking down our kit?

 

Indeed Dave.

A while back I ordered one of the nice looking William Optics dovetail bars from FLO:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetails-saddles-clamps/william-optics-vixen-style-dovetail-plate.html

I was a little surprised when I found that it was just a bit narrower and my APM clamps would not clamp it securely. Luckily this was obvious before I tried using it with a scope. FLO of course took it back and gave me a full refund and also added the note to the product listing.

You do wonder though why the designer of these bars decided that a little narrower was a good idea when you consider what they are used for :rolleyes2:

I use an Altair DT bar now with the Tak and that's fine and a secure fit.

I'm also quite content with the Tak tube clamp design.

 

Edited by John
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54 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I was changing the focusser on a reflector tube and might have put a wee dent in it trying to get the mirror cell back in….. slightly sitting on it. not that anyone noticed.

Peter

Was it your scope? 🤣

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