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New CMOS optimised Baader Ultra-Narrowband filters


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Here are some single 300s subs QHY268M Gain 56 Offset 30 -10oC

The Oiii and Sii were taken at when it was still a bit light, Sii looks good, some halo around Sadr in Oiii.

 

Any comments welcome.

 

Adam.

 

 

Oiii

L_2021-07-16_23-53-26_Bin1x1_300s_-10C_QHY_Mono_Oiii-St.thumb.jpg.80429ddae2d2fa6a87922fe4b24eb60b.jpg

Sii

L_2021-07-17_00-02-25_Bin1x1_300s_-10C_QHY_Mono_Sii-St.thumb.jpg.035f42fcd99c93b894c459e1b09d2f4d.jpg

Ha

L_2021-07-17_00-17-51_Bin1x1_300s_-10C_QHY_Mono_Ha-St.thumb.jpg.ba68bcb329ef2a1237d673b89e1b69e9.jpg

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Nice images! A shame about the halo in Oiii, I think a lot of folks were hoping that these filters would be halo-free. 

I suppose that will remain a characteristic of Astrodon / Chroma for the time being!

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16 minutes ago, Spongey said:

Nice images! A shame about the halo in Oiii, I think a lot of folks were hoping that these filters would be halo-free.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Looking forward to seeing how Adam gets on with these before dropping money on a full NB upgrade.... although the OIII does look better than the older version to be honest!

The Ha is a definate 👍

Damian

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On 15/07/2021 at 21:51, tooth_dr said:

Not long home from a long day at work. Clear skies 👍🏼👍🏼
Mounting the filters and noticed a small coating defect on the Sii filter.  Doubt it will have much impact on the image but didn’t expect it 

 

 

7FAFE58E-C79A-4BCD-B51F-449FF63EF5C5.jpeg

Either that is a bit of dirt nipped under the retaining ring or its a scratch and should be replaced. 

Have you taked to the supplier?

Adam

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3 hours ago, Adam J said:

Either that is a bit of dirt nipped under the retaining ring or its a scratch and should be replaced. 

Have you taked to the supplier?

Adam

It looks like a coating has been placed over a dust particle or crack on base material, not sure how they are coated but assuming after it's been cut to size.

The supplier is sending me out a replacement set of filters.

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With my RASA I always get some form of halo no matter which filter I use, this is due to SCT design and cannot be avoided. Different optical systems will yield different results. I get halos with my IDAS LP filter when used with CMOS OSC , and I can show some examples of halos on L-Enhance and L-Extreme. I used to have Chromas in my previous setup, and even those can suffer halos too. See the linked thread for the issues I read on Chromas. So for me it's performance at a price point that doesn’t kill the bank. I’ll be posting some test images from the high speed UNB’s once it gets a bit darker here and clear.

 

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Hi,

 

I'm getting halos as well with the new Baader Ultra-Narrowband filters but in my case is even worse with the SII one.

 

Below a side by side of 450s subs taken with an Evostar 72ED with flattener-reducer and a QHY183m. From left to right, SII, H, OIII.

627480561_SHOhalos.thumb.JPG.83a08fb3d705e2603f72d35cd60f932d.JPG

 

 

And integrations of NGC 7000, the only operations performed are a linear fit referenced to SII and auto-stretch. The brightest star is 3.70 magnitude and the SII filter is already showing a halo. No halo with the OIII though.

From top to bottom, SII, H, OIII.

 

SII.JPG.797b41af5ea0486982e2d9f77d8e29b3.JPG

 

H.JPG.d6451fd779c6d82a92acdc12615f2dea.JPG

 

OIII.JPG.5cac2b4007d576eb7ecb8025d8c93f5e.JPG

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5 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Thanks for sharing your images. In my eye there is a halo with the oiii too in your images. 

Thank you for sharing yours. And yes, you're absolutely right, but it's not as obvious and once you combine the OIII with the H-alpha is barely noticeable if at all while the halo from the SII stays in the final image and is really annoying.  But again yes, the halo in OIII is kind of in the limit and surely a problem with brighter stars.

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On 16/07/2021 at 13:19, tooth_dr said:

Unfortunately not scratch-free.

That’s both Sii and Oiii filters I can now see are marked straight out of the box 👎

I literally have just blown just off them and not so much as touched the glass with anything 

 

75943138-FC48-48F4-948D-5E5D2A51C8F6.jpeg

A0E3BABC-F3BA-492B-8007-CC54736C6DC3.jpeg

Huh. Just received my filters today and have a similar scratches on S II and O III. I made sure to look out for them when I ran across this post some days ago. I ordered mine through Parcl because they weren't available in the US yet, so it looks like I'll have to send them back to Germany. Shame🙃
 

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7 hours ago, LeftyAstro said:

Huh. Just received my filters today and have a similar scratches on S II and O III. I made sure to look out for them when I ran across this post some days ago. I ordered mine through Parcl because they weren't available in the US yet, so it looks like I'll have to send them back to Germany. Shame🙃
 

That is very interesting. Do you think it might be from the paper packaging? 

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3 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

That is very interesting. Do you think it might be from the paper packaging? 

Can't say for sure. I have the original f/2 filters as well and none of them came with any defects, so I'm thinking it has something to do with the materials used for these new filters or something that happened during preparation. It's odd...

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6 hours ago, LeftyAstro said:

Can't say for sure. I have the original f/2 filters as well and none of them came with any defects, so I'm thinking it has something to do with the materials used for these new filters or something that happened during preparation. It's odd...

@tooth_drOIII.thumb.jpeg.082bc57556ee7982042d2fdb59fcc2fc.jpeg

@tooth_dr Right across the middle of my O III (and in some other places hard to see). I haven't been able to try these out because of clouds, so I have no idea of the impact. What were you able to notice in your tests? I guess if I'm paying 1k+ for a filterset, I would like them to not have these scratches, but if it doesn't result in reflections or something egregious (Idk, loss of transmission? If that's how it works) then it's not something I would pursue further

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That looks dreadful.  If they were mine then I'd pursue it further just to protect the potential resale value if nothing else.

James

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1 hour ago, JamesF said:

That looks dreadful.  If they were mine then I'd pursue it further just to protect the potential resale value if nothing else.

James

Yeah, I'm glad I ended up on here because I probably wouldn't have noticed it otherwise. As I noted earlier, I had the original Baader F/2 filters where this wasn't an issue so I trusted the filters would come in good condition. Unlike these new filters, though, the original's that I purchased were from a much later batch where they likely ironed out any issues. Currently waiting to hear back from Baader on this

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18 minutes ago, LeftyAstro said:

Yeah, I'm glad I ended up on here because I probably wouldn't have noticed it otherwise. As I noted earlier, I had the original Baader F/2 filters where this wasn't an issue so I trusted the filters would come in good condition. Unlike these new filters, though, the original's that I purchased were from a much later batch where they likely ironed out any issues. Currently waiting to hear back from Baader on this

Those are pretty bad looking, I’d be 100% sending them back for replacement.  I haven’t really tested mine much, due to lack of astro darkness but I can’t see an impact on the image. 

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On 23/07/2021 at 18:20, LeftyAstro said:

@tooth_drOIII.thumb.jpeg.082bc57556ee7982042d2fdb59fcc2fc.jpeg

@tooth_dr Right across the middle of my O III (and in some other places hard to see). I haven't been able to try these out because of clouds, so I have no idea of the impact. What were you able to notice in your tests? I guess if I'm paying 1k+ for a filterset, I would like them to not have these scratches, but if it doesn't result in reflections or something egregious (Idk, loss of transmission? If that's how it works) then it's not something I would pursue further

I have to agree, that looks way beyond acceptable to me. I'd be sending that back without doubt. Also disappointing to see the halos in the Oiii and Sii subs above. I was really hoping Baader would have fixed these but it appears not. My old Baader Sii gives pretty bad halos.

I ordered one of the 3.5nm Ha CMOS ones myself (not the super fast one though) and it arrived during the week. No scratchets or marks on it that I can see at least. I did notice that colour wise it looked clear, compared to the orange and green sides of the old filter which I thought was interesting. Hope to get a chance to use it soon. 

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1 hour ago, Xiga said:

I have to agree, that looks way beyond acceptable to me. I'd be sending that back without doubt. Also disappointing to see the halos in the Oiii and Sii subs above. I was really hoping Baader would have fixed these but it appears not. My old Baader Sii gives pretty bad halos.

I ordered one of the 3.5nm Ha CMOS ones myself (not the super fast one though) and it arrived during the week. No scratchets or marks on it that I can see at least. I did notice that colour wise it looked clear, compared to the orange and green sides of the old filter which I thought was interesting. Hope to get a chance to use it soon. 

Currently working with Alpine Astro to get this resolved since I had the filters forwarded through Parcl bc Baader doesn't ship to the U.S (no US distributor had them in stock), as it seems returning them would be the issue here. Was also disappointed in the halos, but they look much more manageable than the older filters. The Ha filter looks fantastic, and similarly was one of the filters that I didn't see any scratches on

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On 23/07/2021 at 18:20, LeftyAstro said:

@tooth_dr

@tooth_dr Right across the middle of my O III (and in some other places hard to see). I haven't been able to try these out because of clouds, so I have no idea of the impact. What were you able to notice in your tests? I guess if I'm paying 1k+ for a filterset, I would like them to not have these scratches, but if it doesn't result in reflections or something egregious (Idk, loss of transmission? If that's how it works) then it's not something I would pursue further

Thats not acceptable and not like Baader to be honest, I have always found their filters to be immaculate in the past and I have had quite a few.  I would simply send it back its not ok. 

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On 21/07/2021 at 23:40, AstroCoto said:

Hi,

 

I'm getting halos as well with the new Baader Ultra-Narrowband filters but in my case is even worse with the SII one.

 

Below a side by side of 450s subs taken with an Evostar 72ED with flattener-reducer and a QHY183m. From left to right, SII, H, OIII.

627480561_SHOhalos.thumb.JPG.83a08fb3d705e2603f72d35cd60f932d.JPG

 

 

And integrations of NGC 7000, the only operations performed are a linear fit referenced to SII and auto-stretch. The brightest star is 3.70 magnitude and the SII filter is already showing a halo. No halo with the OIII though.

From top to bottom, SII, H, OIII.

 

SII.JPG.797b41af5ea0486982e2d9f77d8e29b3.JPG

 

H.JPG.d6451fd779c6d82a92acdc12615f2dea.JPG

 

OIII.JPG.5cac2b4007d576eb7ecb8025d8c93f5e.JPG

You seem to have much worse halos than i see in @tooth_dr 's image above. I think he has a slight OIII halo but thats to be expected on a star as bright as Gamma Cygni, hence i considered his results be be quite good, in this case that SII reflection seems a little abnormal to be honest. Which version of the filters are you using?

 

Adam

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8 hours ago, Adam J said:

Thats not acceptable and not like Baader to be honest, I have always found their filters to be immaculate in the past and I have had quite a few.  I would simply send it back its not ok. 

I am fond of Baader. Have their LRGB set along with the original F/2 filters and these scratches are really out of character. Hopeful to have this resolved soon. I emailed them the day that I received the filters and they haven't responded. I also reached out to Alpine Astro for advising and they reached out to Baader on my behalf. Just waiting to hear back now

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Great news:  Baader is working to get me some replacement filters for the O III and S II that had the scratches from Alpine astro. Expecting them to be shipped out soon 👍

They left me with this:
IMG_1234.thumb.jpeg.27b714e274eeefe6c25ac942a0a5d9ba.jpeg

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Let me introduce myself to the SGL-community. I am Baader Planetarium’s UK-Support representative, and have been asked to provide the following official statement with regard to their new imaging filter performance:
 
“We are very grateful to anyone acquiring a filter or filters from us for stringent real-world testing without bias and also to preserve independence. 
 
With imaging results the glass can always be half-full or half-empty, depending which point of view is being applied. For customers with funds that does not stretch to the purchase of CHROMA/ASTRODON filters, the feedback so far is very positive and enthusiastic.
 
It's worthy to note at this point that halos are a result of reflections in the telescope system and not from the filter itself.  The moment there are other surfaces near the filter, it is much more likely that light will be reflected from one of those surfaces, creating halos that may not be removable. There are so many combinations of camera (windows), field flatteners, correctors, etc., that it is common for filters to be involved in halo production in some unfortunate cases - but not guilty themselves. To tackle this problem we developed our Reflex-Blocker coatings to minimize halos, even under most adverse conditions concerning auxiliary optics. The goal was to achieve a very significant improvement over the previous models and because the new camera technologies now available made it absolutely necessary. However, it was crucial to maintain the previous (AFFORDABLE) price level as much as possible.
 
At the "CHROMA-pricing" we could produce any quality of filters. In the large environment of affordable filter supply and pricing, our new filters may well set a standard. We are sure that anyone using our new filters will enjoy a huge benefit as the amount of processing that may be required of the brightest imaged stars is rated by testers as "very manageable and acceptable”.
 
For example we ask you to read a german review that appeared only last week on Astronomie.de and from Chris Hendren, Technical Support Manager at Celestron Torrance/CA, who very recently reported:
 
“Recently, I lucked out and had clear skies until at least 2 AM for 3 nights in a row from my Bortle 9 back yard sky in overwhelmingly bright Long Beach, California. That let me test out the new Baader 6.5nm CMOS-optimized high-speed filters with the RASA 8 under very tough conditions. Except for the bright magnitude 2.2 star Sadr (Gamma Cygni) in OIII and a much lesser extent in SII, there were no haloes to be seen on any stars with 5 min exposures at f/2.0. I was able to easily minimize the halo to a level I felt comfortable with in a couple steps in Photoshop. I am extremely happy with this result.”
 
Additional results and feedback will continuously be added to our CMOS Filter Blog and as well as many others from amateurs and industry alike.  As most dealers have just started to supply these new filters there are a lot of written reports yet still to come. Overall feedback so far to date is overwhelmingly good and positive. Our experience is that everyone who has used our new filters does indeed confirm a gain in contrast and almost-to-zero reduction of halos - this is a decisive criterion for working under extremely bright city skies. Furthermore, the enormous price difference compared to CHROMA/Astrodon-filters comes into play for the typical budget conscious user. Hence our design considerations, but especially the weighting of price to performance, have been confirmed by customer response and we are very grateful for this. 
 
Sincere regards,
Baader Planetarium GmbH”
 
Submitted by:
Baader Planetarium UK-Support
Dr Lee Sproats

Edited by Baader UK Support
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