How long to get first decent image ?

[Shimrod]

1 minute ago, Astro Noodles said:

How true that is. Northern England is not great for cloudless nights. What I've also found is that it seems to be clear after midnight more often than before midnight. If I could become nocturnal it would help.

This last year I have been working from home, and my window looks west. Throughout the winter, a lot of days were clear blue sky, then as 5pm came the clouds would roll in. I've also noticed that quite often it seems to clear up around 1am - roll on retirement, though that's still a few years away.

[Astro Noodles]

1 minute ago, Shimrod said:

This last year I have been working from home, and my window looks west. Throughout the winter, a lot of days were clear blue sky, then as 5pm came the clouds would roll in. I've also noticed that quite often it seems to clear up around 1am - roll on retirement, though that's still a few years away.

Working for a living is interfering with my hobby. 😄

[teoria_del_big_bang]

27 minutes ago, Astro Noodles said:

Northern England is not great for cloudless nights.

Well that's an understatement if I ever heard one, 🙂 
I think 2nd half of last year and beginning of this was worse than normal.

But just have to make best of what we have, that's why I wish I had an obsy to make the most of any odd hour of clear sky, whereas now if I think it wont be clear most of night I just don't get the gear out as it is quite a heavy setup. If I had the obsy then just open the roof and go for it.

Steve

Edited April 30, 2021 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Marvin Jenkins]

Hi Astro Noodles

So much great information as read through this thread and a big thumbs up for the encouragement of beginners to post there first images. There may well be plenty of constructive criticism and I know it is like laying your efforts bare, but the best on ‘here’ may well have been no better.

Some of the posts in this thread are very close to my heart. You can see from my signature that I am at the beginning with equipment and the equipment also reflects the two years I have started doing a bit of AP.

I have had the great fortune to get to know an astronomer with a high level setup. It has been an eye opener to see the difference between what I can get from a data set using free software and what can be achieved using high end software, you get what you pay for I guess, and free is .......

Just like yourself I am very much on this journey, regardless of how many years it will take or if my equipment level can get better. But I will say that the images you take are yours.

Be proud of the fact that you have images of objects in space non Astro people do not even know exist. It is easy to look at the peak of the mountain but the experience does not mean you have to get right to the top.

Marvin

[iapa]

34 minutes ago, Astro Noodles said:

How true that is. Northern England is not great for cloudless nights. What I've also found is that it seems to be clear after midnight more often than before midnight. If I could become nocturnal it would help. It's so disappointing to waste a clear night's imaging when you look at the subs and they are all rubbish.

No captured image is rubbish - it is part toe the learning curve, why is it not acceptable, what caused to be unacceptable, correcting what caused it.

Then, next night out, you are doing the same until…….. it all fits together.

The following night out, something will have change, and you start all over again.

Then after a few decade to get to the likes the images of @ollypenrice, if you move the France/Spain what have you.

It’s part of the fun.

[Marvin Jenkins]

A prime example. But it comes with an explanation. This was first attempt at the Great Orion Nebula. I think it is about one hour of exposures without calibration frames. I stacked it in DSS and sent the tif to my friend who has Pixinsight.

At the time just using an intervalometer, and getting one hours data with ok PA was a real challenge. Bit like rubbing your stomach and tapping your head at the same time.

The important bit of this post is that although I had downloaded GIMP to my PC it was a complete mystery! I had literally no processing skills, the software was incomprehensible.

Friend with PI sent back the first picture and I thought he was pranking me. The second came from his family member with software skills.

It was then I realised that this whole AP thing is a package. You and I are very near the beginning but the mountain is there to be climbed. I hope to see you along the way.

Marv

 

[ollypenrice]

I stopped learning anything about image acquisition years ago. Processing, though, is a never ending... er... process!

lly

[teoria_del_big_bang]

1 minute ago, ollypenrice said:

I stopped learning anything about image acquisition years ago. Processing, though, is a never ending... er... process!

lly

Whilsts I am not in that position just yet I do now realise how true that statement is 🤣

Steve

[Marvin Jenkins]

1 minute ago, ollypenrice said:

I stopped learning anything about image acquisition years ago. Processing, though, is a never ending... er... process!

lly

I haven’t even begun and I am dreading that part of the future. My wife says I am like Magneto, I walk up to a pc and it stops working.

I think I have a heavy metal skeleton as everyone says I am 11 stone when I am in fact near fifteen.

Not great when you love cycling! 

Marv

[Astro Noodles]

18 minutes ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

A prime example. But it comes with an explanation. This was first attempt at the Great Orion Nebula. I think it is about one hour of exposures without calibration frames. I stacked it in DSS and sent the tif to my friend who has Pixinsight.

At the time just using an intervalometer, and getting one hours data with ok PA was a real challenge. Bit like rubbing your stomach and tapping your head at the same time.

The important bit of this post is that although I had downloaded GIMP to my PC it was a complete mystery! I had literally no processing skills, the software was incomprehensible.

Friend with PI sent back the first picture and I thought he was pranking me. The second came from his family member with software skills.

It was then I realised that this whole AP thing is a package. You and I are very near the beginning but the mountain is there to be climbed. I hope to see you along the way.

Marv

 

Those are beautiful images Marvin, especially the second one.

I accept what you are saying, that processing is at least 50% of the package. However, I am not yet at the stage where I have the image data to produce a nice image. Just practice and some clear nights should help.

[Marvin Jenkins]

Astro Noodles,

The other thing about Astro images, is that even thought the data set that was processed into those images were mine, from my back garden, using my 150pds, I find myself thinking it is not my picture.

I am indebted to the people who helped me ‘see’ what I had captured, but the effort was not all mine. Again it is part of the learning curve and if not for the restrictions I could have learned a lot more.

Marv

[Marvin Jenkins]

1 minute ago, Astro Noodles said:

Those are beautiful images Marvin, especially the second one.

I accept what you are saying, that processing is at least 50% of the package. However, I am not yet at the stage where I have the image data to produce a nice image. Just practice and some clear nights should help.

Absolutely understand. We are at the mercy of the weather. You can only do what the clouds allow you to do. A huge measure of patience is needed in this game and I have no patience whatsoever!!!

[iapa]

1 hour ago, Shimrod said:

This last year I have been working from home, and my window looks west. Throughout the winter, a lot of days were clear blue sky, then as 5pm came the clouds would roll in. I've also noticed that quite often it seems to clear up around 1am - roll on retirement, though that's still a few years away.

Tried that last.

Makes no difference to the skies

Might have to get another job to pay for what I can’t use.

[iapa]

1 hour ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Well that's an understatement if I ever heard one, 🙂 
I think 2nd half of last year and beginning of this was worse than normal.

But just have to make best of what we have, that's why I wish I had an obsy to make the most of any odd hour of clear sky, whereas now if I think it wont be clear most of night I just don't get the gear out as it is quite a heavy setup. If I had the obsy then just open the roof and go for it.

Steve

Kept a lot of kit on a pier under a Telegizmos 365 cover pending any clears skies.

Didn’t help, constant cloud

[Astro Noodles]

Here is last night's rather disappointing effort of M13.

I took 250 20 sec subs at ISO 1600 stopped down to F5.8. This is just the best 9 stacked.

Issues that I can see (apart from noise and dodgy colour balance) -

1) Star trailing. I just can't seem to the Skyguider pro to behave. It seems to be tracking slightly too quickly if anything. However, it does seem to be getting slightly better than first efforts. 

2) Bloated stars. Having tried lots of different things, I think the star bloating is due to the lens not being able to focus all wavelengths of light correctly.

3) Insufficient data. Tonight I will go for ISO 1600 at F3.5.

All in all, a lot of effort for a rather disappointing result. 🙁

 

Here's on with a bit more processing.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Astro Noodles

[RoloFanatic]

It was really interesting seeing what people had to say to this question as I am also just beginning to image.

I am definitely not an expert but I am also using an iOptron skyguider pro and one thing that I have noticed, is that it is really easy to knock it out of alignment. To minimise star trails I had to check the polar alignment and make adjustments essentially every time I touched the mount which is not easy because the targeting reticule will not be illuminated once you have sighted your DSO. 

I have seen a lot of people recommend the Williams Optics Wedge for the ioptron skyguider pro and I am assuming that this is the reason why. I haven't tried it but it could help, I am quite tempted to pick one up for myself to find out. 

[Astro Noodles]

18 hours ago, RoloFanatic said:

It was really interesting seeing what people had to say to this question as I am also just beginning to image.

I am definitely not an expert but I am also using an iOptron skyguider pro and one thing that I have noticed, is that it is really easy to knock it out of alignment. To minimise star trails I had to check the polar alignment and make adjustments essentially every time I touched the mount which is not easy because the targeting reticule will not be illuminated once you have sighted your DSO. 

I have seen a lot of people recommend the Williams Optics Wedge for the ioptron skyguider pro and I am assuming that this is the reason why. I haven't tried it but it could help, I am quite tempted to pick one up for myself to find out. 

I'm really not getting on with the skyguider pro. I have only used it 4 times but I can't even get 20sec subs without star trailing.  I was able to do that on my old rig with only a rough polar alignment. I have been out this afternoon and have discovered that the bubble levels on both the mount and the tripod are giving bogus readings - so perhaps I will have more success tonight

[Clarkey]

Hi Noodles,

I have read through this thread and I must admit I feel quite spoilt as I went the 'whole hog' in one go with guiding / scope / mount etc. However, I do understand your frustration. Even with some better kit I have still have times when things just did not work and I was tearing my hair out.

With regards to the level of the mount, providing the PA is correct it should not be critical - you are rotating around the point of alignment. Looking at the amount of star trailing you are getting, are you sure there is not an issue with the sky-guider? I would expect you to be able to get perfectly good subs at 20s without issue providing you PA is close. Have you tried to leave it tracking without imaging to see how far it drifts? I know this obvious, but it is set to 1X tracking?

[Astro Noodles]

Thanks Clarkey. It is definitely set to 1x tracking. It seems to drift off upwards and to the right which makes no sense to me. I could understand it if drifted in the direction of the rotation. I am not ruling out an issue with the sky-guider but I will try it a few more times in the hope that I discover a foolish mistake.

I am ready to buy a proper small refractor for my setup but am not going to buy one until I ca get this tracking situation nailed.

[Clarkey]

I have just has a look to see if there are any known issues with the Skyguider. I found this link on Cloudy Nights.

Skyguider Pro tracking issues? - Beginning Deep Sky Imaging - Cloudy Nights

Although there is a lot of discussion there is a 'calibration' procedure which might be worth a punt. (Post #15)

[Astro Noodles]

Maybe I'll have a chat with the good folks at FLO.

[Astro Noodles]

Last night's effort.  80x 20 sec subs at iso 3200. 

 

Better I think. @RoloFanatic, you are absolutely right about the PA.  You only need to breath on the mount and it goes out of alignment. I'm going to change my set up routine and do the PA last, just before I start to image.

[Clarkey]

I agree it is better than previously but it should be better. What do the individual subs look like? Are they all showing trails or are they very variable?

[JamieA]

HI All, reading through and thought I'd share a couple of images, taken for the first time ! out  last night. Although I have a long way to go, the images I managed to obtain, where for a beginner very satisfying.. Invaluable advice on these forums has helped me a great deal ! Cheers 🍻 although a great deal of improvement on focus, processing etc etc i'm sure the equipment is up to much better standards than my first attempts.

 

[Astro Noodles]

21 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

I agree it is better than previously but it should be better. What do the individual subs look like? Are they all showing trails or are they very variable?

All bout the same.

Here's one with the best 9 frames stacked

Edited June 2, 2021 by Astro Noodles