Eyepieces for Skyliner 200p

[Pitch Black Skies]

Hi folks,

Would someone be able to recommend some eyepieces that work well in the Skywatcher Skyliner Classic 200p please?

It came with the Super 10mm and 25mm Modified Achromats. For medium power I bought a 12.5mm Stellalyra LER which was really nice but returned it for a 16mm Nirvana for a little less magnification and a wider FOV. Now unfortunately, whenever I try to see the full FOV I'm getting very apparent kidney beaning which I wasn't expecting at all for a more expensive eyepiece.

I have seen some people recommend the BST Starguiders so I am considering getting the 15mm for medium power instead and returning the Nirvana.

For high power I was thinking a Baader Classic Ortho 6mm would be good. That would yield 200x which I assume is the limit that our climate will support most of the time.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks guys

Edited April 27, 2021 by Pitch Black Skies
Making it more clear and concise

[IB20]

I’ve found the BST 15mm is an excellent eyepiece for this scope as is the 10mm BCO, which I found sensational on Mars last Autumn with a polarising filter. I’ll be using it on Jupiter later this year for certain.

All the Starguiders are great in the 200P, the 18 & 25mm are probably the weakest however.

Haven’t tried the 6mm BCO but have read that it’s a bit tight on eye relief, the 10mm does barlow really well mind.

[Dark Vader]

I have the 25, 15, and 5mm in BST. The 15mm is very good and is my go to fixed EP, the 5mm gave some decent high power views of Mars last opposition at 240x on the occasional night. The 25mm is the weakest of the bunch in my opinion but marginally better than the supplied 25mm one. The supplied 10mm - I get better results with the 25mm BST barlowed. The Barlow mentioned below fits all the 1.25" EPs I've got and I find it is very good.

The best I've found in my 200p so far is the Baader 8-24 zoom and 2.25x Barlow. 

Andy

[Kon]

Like the above two posts, the BSTs are really good EPs with my 8" Dob. I have the 8 and 15mm and a 2x barlow. I find that I mostly use the 15mm for faint fuzzies and open clusters and if conditions allow I use the 8mm. I find the supplied 25mm EP not too bad. I am contemplating the 5mm BST. The feel really solid and I have not noticed kidney beaning (maybe a tiny bit at the very edge) but I mostly observe faint nebulas so I mostly look at the centre of the EP.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Kon

[Pixies]

I find the same as you with the 16mm Nirvana.

The 12mm BST is an excellent eyepiece, and provides a useful x100 magnification, with a 2mm exit pupil.

[Tiny Clanger]

I've found the BST 15mm,  12mm  and 8mm all very nice in my 150mm f5  heritage dob, but the 25mm is less pleasing , I actually find myself using a skywatcher 32mm plossl more (it shows practically the same field of view as the 60 degree 25mm BST) . The 25mm BST is better in my mak, which is a more forgiving f11 'scope .

I tend to use the mak rather than the dob for higher magnification on the Moon & planets , so have not yet tried the 6mm Baader ortho I recently acquired on here second hand in the dob, but it is a tiny thing , with miniscule glass, and in the mak looking at the bright near full Moon it did not compare favourably with a £30 ish 6mm TMB planetary I bought from Alan at Sky's the Limit . Things may be different using it in the dob, or on other targets, I've not had the chance to give it a lot of time yet.

I went for 6mm as my highest power EP because beyond that (250x magnification)  in the mak I get distracting  eye 'floaters' ... apparently it's an age thing ... 😼

Heather

[Pitch Black Skies]

12 hours ago, IB20 said:

I’ve found the BST 15mm is an excellent eyepiece for this scope as is the 10mm BCO, which I found sensational on Mars last Autumn with a polarising filter. I’ll be using it on Jupiter later this year for certain.

All the Starguiders are great in the 200P, the 18 & 25mm are probably the weakest however.

Haven’t tried the 6mm BCO but have read that it’s a bit tight on eye relief, the 10mm does barlow really well mind.

Awesome, thank you.

I assume 120x is not strong enough and you usually Barlow it then? I have a 2X Barlow that can be broken down to 1.5X. That would yield me either 120x, 240x or 180x. That might be the way to go.

Have you any experience with zoom eyepieces over fixed FL?

[IB20]

1 minute ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Awesome, thank you.

I assume 120x is not strong enough and you usually Barlow it then? I have a 2X Barlow that can be broken down to 1.5X. That would yield me either 120x, 240x or 180x. That might be the way to go.

Have you any experience with zoom eyepieces over fixed FL?

In general in UK conditions I'd say that with my 200P 80x-120x magnification was the most useable, so 10-15mm. I'm quickly learning though that there are a lot of variables and multiple EPs/tools are probably required depending on seeing, altitudes, transparency etc etc.

I know this will sound pretty weird but as the 15mm was so good I have invested in the 13mm TV Delite, which is now my DSO eyepiece, but I am keeping the 15mm BST. 

Here's a list of the main things I have seen so far and what I thought was the best:

Mars opposition - 10mm BCO with 2x TV Barlow, 5mm BST a very close 2nd.

Low altitude Jupiter - 15mm BST

Low altitude Saturn - 15mm BST

Uranus - 8mm BST with 2x TV Barlow

Neptune - 8mm BST with 2x TV Barlow

Moon - Hyperflex 21.5-7.2mm with and without 2x barlow, all the BSTs work wonderfully on the moon though. 

Double stars - TV 13mm Delite

Orion nebula - 18mm BST

Dark Sky Objects inc globular clusters - Combination of 25mm BST to find with 13mm Delite to observe

Pleiades, Nova in Cassiopeia - 15 x 70 binoculars

Hyades, Comet Neowise, open clusters - 8 x 42 binoculars

You get the jist, not one EP will do it all but I'd certainly recommend a zoom, a 2x barlow, a widefield EP and a sweet spot magnification workhorse EP. 

[Pitch Black Skies]

On 27/04/2021 at 23:19, Dark Vader said:

I have the 25, 15, and 5mm in BST. The 15mm is very good and is my go to fixed EP, the 5mm gave some decent high power views of Mars last opposition at 240x on the occasional night. The 25mm is the weakest of the bunch in my opinion but marginally better than the supplied 25mm one. The supplied 10mm - I get better results with the 25mm BST barlowed. The Barlow mentioned below fits all the 1.25" EPs I've got and I find it is very good.

The best I've found in my 200p so far is the Baader 8-24 zoom and 2.25x Barlow. 

Andy

Thanks Andy,

Is the zoom as sharp and does it show as much contrast as the BSTs?

I think I've narrowed it down to the BSTs, the BCOs, a combination of them, or the zoom you mentioned.

[Pitch Black Skies]

22 hours ago, IB20 said:

In general in UK conditions I'd say that with my 200P 80x-120x magnification was the most useable, so 10-15mm. I'm quickly learning though that there are a lot of variables and multiple EPs/tools are probably required depending on seeing, altitudes, transparency etc etc.

I know this will sound pretty weird but as the 15mm was so good I have invested in the 13mm TV Delite, which is now my DSO eyepiece, but I am keeping the 15mm BST. 

Here's a list of the main things I have seen so far and what I thought was the best:

Mars opposition - 10mm BCO with 2x TV Barlow, 5mm BST a very close 2nd.

Low altitude Jupiter - 15mm BST

Low altitude Saturn - 15mm BST

Uranus - 8mm BST with 2x TV Barlow

Neptune - 8mm BST with 2x TV Barlow

Moon - Hyperflex 21.5-7.2mm with and without 2x barlow, all the BSTs work wonderfully on the moon though. 

Double stars - TV 13mm Delite

Orion nebula - 18mm BST

Dark Sky Objects inc globular clusters - Combination of 25mm BST to find with 13mm Delite to observe

Pleiades, Nova in Cassiopeia - 15 x 70 binoculars

Hyades, Comet Neowise, open clusters - 8 x 42 binoculars

You get the jist, not one EP will do it all but I'd certainly recommend a zoom, a 2x barlow, a widefield EP and a sweet spot magnification workhorse EP. 

Thanks so much sharing your knowledge and experience, that is a really detailed answer.

There's definitely seems to be a common trend among the BSTs for people with this telescope. I can't imagine 80x on Saturn and Jupiter being strong enough though. Surely they are tiny. How much detail can you see?

[Tiny Clanger]

11 hours ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Thanks so much sharing your knowledge and experience, that is a really detailed answer.

There's definitely seems to be a common trend among the BSTs for people with this telescope. I can't imagine 80x on Saturn and Jupiter being strong enough though. Surely they are tiny. How much detail can you see?

My most exciting planetary sight so far was when Mars was at its closest to us a few months back. I was using a 17mm plossl (I only had a couple of plossls and the 8mm BST at the time) because the seeing did not make the 8mm useful, so was at a mere 44x magnification. But I spent a couple of hours patiently watching and nudging the dob.  Mars was a very small disc, with barely discernable suspicions of dark grey patches amongst the red, but there was a brief patch of steady air , and I saw, between well defined dark ones, a light patch which Mars mapper said should not be there. Came indoors, read some posts on here , and discovered what I'd seen was a small dust storm in progress.

Heather

Update : I checked with my observing log, and it was the 12.5mm plossl, which shoed me the Marian storm, not the 17mm . I probably made the mistake because I really like my 17mm plossl ( a nothing out of the ordinary skywatcher 'super' one ), but really dislike the 12.5mm (same series) , which I'm relieved to have replaced with a 12mm BST !

Edited April 29, 2021 by Tiny Clanger
Poor memory, it's my age ...

[IB20]

16 minutes ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Thanks so much sharing your knowledge and experience, that is a really detailed answer.

There's definitely seems to be a common trend among the BSTs for people with this telescope. I can't imagine 80x on Saturn and Jupiter being strong enough though. Surely they are tiny. How much detail can you see?

Oh for sure they are on the small side, but due to their low altitude and being positioned above chimneys radiating heat from my viewing location I found pushing the magnifications gave a less pleasing image. This will change as their altitudes get higher but so far I have had better views with lower mags. I saw the great red spot of Jupiter and equatorial bands easily with the 15mm. At a lower mag I could observe the object for longer as it drifted across the eyepiece which makes teasing out detail easier, at high mags it becomes a much more laboured dob pushing exercise with a mushier image! 

[Dark Vader]

33 minutes ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Thanks Andy,

Is the zoom as sharp and does it show as much contrast as the BSTs?

I think I've narrowed it down to the BSTs, the BCOs, a combination of them, or the zoom you mentioned.

I'd say the zoom has shown me more detail since I had it, bearing in mind by the time I got it the planets were way past their best if not gone completely.

With it I've managed to regularly see Trapezium E&F , good views of M42, a brief one night only view of Sirius B aka the Pup, and split a good few doubles around Orion.

The 15mm BST showed Jupiter's Equatorial and Temperate belt and Red spot, small at 80x but visible. The 5mm (240x) I found too much given the planet's position and the amount of atmosphere I needed to look through. It was useful at the Mars opposition though.

They are all pretty good on the moon, with the 15mm being the clearest of the BSTs.

My opinion is the Hyperion IV zoom and matching Barlow will probably give you better all round views and flexibility, and you'll have focal lengths covered from 24 - 3.5mm. 

I've not tried them but I read that the BCOs do give good views but can be a bit tight on eye relief.

Andy

[Spile]

I also have the 200P and obviously it depends on conditions but I have found the BHZ IV perfectly capable at x150 magnification. Obviously ramping up with the matching Barlow is a different matter and conditions need to be ideal for x338 but I am in no doubt that this it is good combination. I appreciate the Zoom and  Barlow do not come cheap but apart from a low power, wide angle I don't require anything else.

  

[IB20]

Depending on budget, you could always get a Hyperflex and a widefield EP rather than the Baader IV. I find the low mag on the zoom not much use for star hopping as the FOV is too restrictive but it is great to use on an object once located. Maybe something like the Vixen NPL 30mm?

 

[Second Time Around]

I too would very much recommend a zoom eyepiece as your workhorse.  One zoom eyepiece will cover multiple focal lengths and so is really excellent value for money.  I have the Svbony 7-21mm and the Baader 8-24mm zooms.  The Baader is about 4x more expensive but not 4x better.  However, it's sharper off axis and more contrasty.  It also has a wider field of view.

Despite having high quality fixed focal length eyepieces, I use my zooms a lot more often.  The zoom plus a Barlow lens and a low power, wide field eyepiece is often all I use the whole evening. 

Fixed focal length eyepieces may be slightly better corrected when compared with a zoom at the same magnification.   But that's not always a fair comparison as that magnification may not be the optimum for a given object.  This is because one of the many advantages of a zoom is to be able to dial in precisely the best focal length.  For instance, this may be 13mm or even 13.1mm, which may actually show more detail than shorter or longer fixed focal length eyepieces - even better quality ones. 

I particularly like the ability to increase the magnification to make use of brief moments of good seeing (a steady atmosphere).  It takes more time to swap out an eyepiece, and the opportunity may then be missed.  You can't see anything if you haven't got an eyepiece in the focusser!

Zooms also enable the field of view to be varied to frame an object to get the prettiest view.  For this reason I particularly like them for clusters.

They're also handy when you're using filters.  You don't have to unscrew and then replace the filter when you change magnifications.

Many of those who post here and advocate fixed focal lengths are experienced observers.  It's so easy to forget what it was like as a beginner!  A zoom eyepiece enables beginners to easily learn what difference a change of magnification makes on all the various classes of object.  It also shows them what focal lengths would be most useful to their eyes, their telescope, and their observing conditions.  They then have the option of buying/not buying the most appropriate fixed focal length eyepieces for them.  For these reasons I'd always recommend that beginners buy a zoom as their first eyepiece.

I too have an 8 inch f/6 that with my Baader zoom gives 50-150x.  Like you I also have a 1.5x/2x Barlow.  The 1.5x option giving 75x-225x sees a lot of use for medium and high power work.  In fact, I sometimes start with a low power, wide field eyepiece as a finder.  Mine is a 28mm 68 degree Explore Scientific that gives 43x and a field of view of just under 1.6 degrees.  Then I switch to the Baader zoom with the 1.5x Barlow already in place to give 75-225x.  Especially for the moon and close doubles, if the seeing is steady enough I may switch to the 2x Barlow giving 100-300x.

Amongst my fixed focal length eyepieces I also have the 6mm Baader Classic Ortho you asked about.  However, I don't use it often as it doesn't have much eye relief.  

If I want to go even higher than 300x I have other Barlows- the 2.25x to match the Baader zoom plus a recent purchase of a 2.7x APM coma correcting Barlow.

Another way of getting higher powers is to add an extension tube(s) above the black lens cell to your existing 1.5x/2x Barlow.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Second Time Around
Added to give 75-225x

[Pitch Black Skies]

3 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

My most exciting planetary sight so far was when Mars was at its closest to us a few months back. I was using a 17mm plossl (I only had a couple of plossls and the 8mm BST at the time) because the seeing did not make the 8mm useful, so was at a mere 44x magnification. But I spent a couple of hours patiently watching and nudging the dob.  Mars was a very small disc, with barely discernable suspicions of dark grey patches amongst the red, but there was a brief patch of steady air , and I saw, between well defined dark ones, a light patch which Mars mapper said should not be there. Came indoors, read some posts on here , and discovered what I'd seen was a small dust storm in progress.

Heather

Wow! Very interesting Heather, sounds like you had a really pleasing experience. I'm only at this a month or two but I always point the scope at Mars when I'm out. It's always the same, like a ball of fire. Until one night, a week or two back I looked at it and it was crystal clear. Truly amazing experience. It was at 200x.

Alan

[Pitch Black Skies]

2 hours ago, IB20 said:

Depending on budget, you could always get a Hyperflex and a widefield EP rather than the Baader IV. I find the low mag on the zoom not much use for star hopping as the FOV is too restrictive but it is great to use on an object once located. Maybe something like the Vixen NPL 30mm?

 

Thanks, I have a Panaview 32mm for low power. Just trying to get something for high and medium. I'm thinking maybe the 8mm and 15mm BST which would give me 150x and 80x respectively.

If going to be a zoom, I think maybe the Baader.

[Pitch Black Skies]

33 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

I too would very much recommend a zoom eyepiece as your workhorse.  One zoom eyepiece will cover multiple focal lengths and so is really excellent value for money.  I have the Svbony 7-21mm and the Baader 8-24mm zooms.  The Baader is about 4x more expensive but not 4x better.  However, it's sharper off axis and more contrasty.  It also has a wider field of view.

Despite having high quality fixed focal length eyepieces, I use my zooms a lot more often.  The zoom plus a Barlow lens and a low power, wide field eyepiece is often all I use the whole evening. 

Fixed focal length eyepieces may be slightly better corrected when compared with a zoom at the same magnification.   But that's not always a fair comparison as that magnification may not be the optimum for a given object.  This is because one of the many advantages of a zoom is to be able to dial in precisely the best focal length.  For instance, this may be 13mm or even 13.1mm, which may actually show more detail than shorter or longer fixed focal length eyepieces - even better quality ones. 

I particularly like the ability to increase the magnification to make use of brief moments of good seeing (a steady atmosphere).  It takes more time to swap out an eyepiece, and the opportunity may then be missed.  You can't see anything if you haven't got an eyepiece in the focusser!

Zooms also enable the field of view to be varied to frame an object to get the prettiest view.  For this reason I particularly like them for clusters.

They're also handy when you're using filters.  You don't have to unscrew and then replace the filter when you change magnifications.

Many of those who post here and advocate fixed focal lengths are experienced observers.  It's so easy to forget what it was like as a beginner!  A zoom eyepiece enables beginners to easily learn what difference a change of magnification makes on all the various classes of object.  It also shows them what focal lengths would be most useful to their eyes, their telescope, and their observing conditions.  They then have the option of buying/not buying the most appropriate fixed focal length eyepieces for them.  For these reasons I'd always recommend that beginners buy a zoom as their first eyepiece.

I too have an 8 inch f/6 that with my Baader zoom gives 50-150x.  Like you I also have a 1.5x/2x Barlow.  The 1.5x option giving 75x-225x sees a lot of use for medium and high power work.  In fact, I sometimes start with a low power, wide field eyepiece as a finder.  Mine is a 28mm 68 degree Explore Scientific that gives 43x and a field of view of just under 1.6 degrees.  Then I switch to the Baader zoom with the 1.5x Barlow already in place.  Especially for the moon and close doubles, if the seeing is steady enough I may switch to the 2x Barlow giving 100-300x.

Amongst my fixed focal length eyepieces I also have the 6mm Baader Classic Ortho you asked about.  However, I don't use it often as it doesn't have much eye relief.  

If I want to go even higher than 300x I have other Barlows- the 2.25x to match the Baader zoom plus a recent purchase of a 2.7x APM coma correcting Barlow.

Another way of getting higher powers is to add an extension tube(s) above the black lens cell to your existing 1.5x/2x Barlow.

Thanks so much, I seen your post on another thread and you've given some really good information there. The zoom eyepieces carry some very useful advantages. I'm after opting for an 8mm and 15mm BST to use alongside my 32 Panaview. I'll see how I get on.

[IB20]

24 minutes ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Thanks so much, I seen your post on another thread and you've given some really good information there. The zoom eyepieces carry some very useful advantages. I'm after opting for an 8mm and 15mm BST to use alongside my 32 Panaview. I'll see how I get on.

Two great EPs, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. I still remember seeing M5 through the 8mm BST, it looked incredible. 

[Pitch Black Skies]

5 hours ago, IB20 said:

Two great EPs, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. I still remember seeing M5 through the 8mm BST, it looked incredible. 

Thanks, really looking forward to seeing what they are like.

[Pitch Black Skies]

Update

Got the BST Starguiders and very pleased with them 🙂

Now I just have to buy the rest of them 😔 😁

 

[200pman]

Bst work very well in my 200p skyliner.

[Kon]

1 hour ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Got the BST Starguiders and very pleased with them

Excellent choice. I have the same in my 200P Dob. The 15mm one is my favourite one for DSOs. Enjoy the views!

[Pitch Black Skies]

1 hour ago, 200pman said:

Bst work very well in my 200p skyliner.

That is absolutely stunning!

I don't know where, but I've seen this before..