Please help a noob with editing astro picture.

[UberStar]

Hi all

 

Been trying with astrophotography for past couple months now and not having much luck with my images, I was convinced it was my skys so went and purchased a CLS filter for my sony A7iii and went to a semi dark sky and was amazed i could actually see the heart and soul nebula right on my camera screen but when i use the camera with no filter i am struggling to bring out the nebula. I went to wales last night and really dark skies got a few pictures and stacked them with no filter and can not bring out detail. I am sure its something i am doing wrong and want to be reasured its me and my editing so was wondering if anyone could have a quick go and see if you can bring any detail out in the image attached to this post ? It would be greatly appreciated and would allow me to then problem solve what i am doing worng. 

 

 

Heart&SoulNebulaNoCLS.tif

[geeklee]

Hi @UberStar I've had a quick look at the TIF and the Heart and Soul is very very faint but you can just make it out.

I take it you didn't use the CLS filter as the skies were so dark? Is the A7iii astro modified so it's recording more Ha?  How many images and what exposure time are you using?  I'm not as familiar with DSLRs but the above information will assist with others providing help for you.

Was this image already stretched a little?

After removing the background gradient, quick colour calibration and stretched (a bit too much):

Here's a 1:1 crop of the Heart (top right) and Soul (bottom left) with stars:

Without stars:

A lovely 1:2 crop of the Heart and Soul (top left) with the Double Cluster in the bottom right.  Really nice star colours 👍

Were you getting the same (or more) yourself?

Edited April 13, 2021 by geeklee

[UberStar]

Hi GeekLee

 

My A7iii is not astro modified yet. My settings were iso 800, it was only 5 stacked images as i had to set off home but they were 2mins 30seconds long on a star adventurer and the skies were very dark it was in mid wales with little to no light polution in that area. I am very confused as i see other astrophotographers on youtube and they make it look so easy when editing the images and out pops a nebula on unmodified cameras so i was getting real confused why i can not do the same but with the CLS filter it works great although produces too much red and i have to set the custom white balance with a grey card when i have the filter installed and it sets it around 9000K

 

Here is a stacked image with the CLS filter below but i am still confused as to why in a very dark sky my camera is barely picking up nebula without the filter ?

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by UberStar
Change TIF to Jpg

[happy-kat]

Hi, for sharing in a post saving your tiff to jpeg makes it easier to see and get comments, especially if mobile browsing. 

No all nebulas are the same, for example orion m42 is bright and can be captured with an unmodified camera but the heart and soul are I think strong with ha so less easy to show up with a unmodified camera. There are many targets up there to aim at and you've got the double cluster in your image (I think it's that) nice.

Edited April 13, 2021 by happy-kat

[UberStar]

4 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Hi, for sharing in a post saving your tiff to jpeg makes it easier to see and get comments, especially if mobile browsing. 

No all nebulas are the same, for example orion m42 is bright and can be captured with an unmodified camera but the heart and soul are I think strong with ha so less easy to show up with a unmodified camera. There are many targets up there to aim at and you've got the double cluster in your image.

Thank you for the reply i understand a bit better now  so i chose a hard to capture nebula with unmodified camera. I will do some research and find ones that are much like M42 and go from there.

 

I changed to jpg also, thank you for the suggestion.

[geeklee]

Having a quick look at the new TIF, it's been stretched to it's limit (and beyond really).

I don't think 5 x 150s (12.5 minutes) is really enough to pull out the strong nebula detail you're looking for.  Perhaps, as @happy-kat mentions, the Orion nebula would offer more at that sort of integration though.  You've also got a huge FOV, so detail may be limited due to the image scale.

How dark are those skies rated as the gradient I pulled off (shown above) seemed quite strong.  Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with dark skies myself 😁

I've looked out some old data I never used and stacked 12 minutes:

(taken with an F4.9 scope and dedicated astro camera (bortle 5/6 skies), just a UVIR cut filter.  No calibration or processing except stretch)

It's not really jumping out either.

Start by capturing (much) more data and I think you'll see a improvement.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by geeklee

[UberStar]

I have just checked and on the light polution map i use its coming in as a bortle 3 and my Lens was at 5.6 as its lowest i can go at 110mm

 

Im guessing a lower F number longer exposures and many many more images would get better results from what you are saying ?

 

Sorry for the image if it was bad i really am new to this so i will search more guides before trying to edit next time

 

I will go try the North America Nebula tonight with my 50mm at 1.8 and see what this produces, hopefully i will end up with something decent as i can do longer exposures with the reduced lens size so no star trailing.

Edited April 13, 2021 by UberStar

[geeklee]

8 minutes ago, UberStar said:

more images would get better results from what you are saying ?

Start with this 👍🙂

50mm will be a big jump in FOV again.  The NAN (NGC 7000) will be small.  If you have the clear skies, perhaps try both lenses and see what you get.  Just try and maximise the amount of data you capture - if that's possible.

I found an example on Astrobin with a modified DSLR and 50mm lens.  Even at that speed and FOV, things are faint.

https://www.astrobin.com/119548/?page=3&nc=user

And another with 50mm but more integration

https://www.astrobin.com/lgf6un/E/?page=3&nc=user

Good luck!

Edited April 13, 2021 by geeklee

[UberStar]

4 minutes ago, geeklee said:

Start with this 👍🙂

50mm will be a big jump in FOV again.  The NAN (NGC 7000) will be small.  If you have the clear skies, perhaps try both lenses and see what you get.  Just try and maximise the amount of data you capture - if that's possible.

I found an example on Astrobin with a modified DSLR and 50mm lens.  Even at that speed and FOV, things are faint.

https://www.astrobin.com/119548/?page=3&nc=user

Good luck!

Thank you for the advise

 

I also have a unmodded Nikon D750 with a 300mm Lens so i may give that a go instead but its again a min F5.6 but i will try the more data theory and see how it goes tonight

 

Really appreciate the advise  

Edited April 13, 2021 by UberStar

[geeklee]

13 minutes ago, UberStar said:

Sorry for the image if it was bad i really am new to this so i will search more guides before trying to edit next time

No need to apologise at all, it was more a comparison to the first image where the nebula was quite faint but the image was pretty balanced and there was lovely star colour in there alongside the double cluster and a great star scape when looking at the whole image.  

I remember my first DSLR image off a static tripod - I was blown away as it had areas I recognised in Cygnus.  It's a journey and you should still be pleased with what you have so far.

Edited April 13, 2021 by geeklee