Stargazing apps

[Corncrake]

47 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Not always obvious to newbies, but a planisphere is easiest to use by aligning it with the sky by holding it over your head so E/W/N/S on it align with those of the sky instead of two being flipped.

Or, better?, get the sunlounger out and hold it in front of nose but not too close

 

13 hours ago, amaury said:

Sorry to deviate a bit (still relevant to the topic discussed here), do people use planispheres anymore at all?

The trouble with them is that by the time you figure out how to use them you already know  enough not to need them any more. 🤣

Edited April 7, 2021 by Corncrake

[AlexK]

1 hour ago, Corncrake said:

The trouble with them is that by the time you figure out how to use them you already know  enough not to need them any more. 🤣

(That's about the Planisphere)
My point exactly. If not, put aside the telescope immediately and learn it already. As it's a shame if you can't point at an arbitrary constellation without a Planisphere. A second-grader amateur astronomer kid can do it.

[amaury]

18 hours ago, SteveWolves said:

+1 for a planisphere mine has never run out of battery yet

 

15 hours ago, Spile said:

Yes I still have mine from 1970 and I haven't to reboot it once

 

14 hours ago, Zermelo said:

Mine is still on its original set of batteries

 

I love the sense of humor of this community hahaha

I agree that a planisphere is excellent when you are learning your way around the night sky.

 

[Gfamily]

6 hours ago, AlexK said:

(That's about the Planisphere)
My point exactly. If not, put aside the telescope immediately and learn it already. As it's a shame if you can't point at an arbitrary constellation without a Planisphere. A second-grader amateur astronomer kid can do it.

That's a bit prescriptive in my view.

Fortunately, we don't have eligibility tests for membership of the great club of amateur astronomers, so not knowing where (for example) Draco starts and ends doesn't mean you can't enjoy the hobby.

At least not in MY club

 

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, Gfamily said:

That's a bit prescriptive in my view.

Fortunately, we don't have eligibility tests for membership of the great club of amateur astronomers, so not knowing where (for example) Draco starts and ends doesn't mean you can't enjoy the hobby.

At least not in MY club

 

I’ve been doing this over 20 years and would likely still struggle with that! It doesn’t bother me at all, this isn’t a memory challenge, I use whatever reference tools I need to tell me what is what/where 👍👍

[iapa]

I have Stellarium Mobile on my iPhone and iPad along side SkySafari Pro.

I’ve tried a few others but these stood out by having proper iPad versions rather than the iPhone version which doesn’t fill screen properly.

The ability in SkySafari to connect to my mount over WiFi is great for use with the ASIAir 

 

**   I just checked on my iPad to get more details on version and developer and this version no longer appears to be available. There IS a Stellarium Plus version for £9.99.

 

[iapa]

Follow up.

Stellarium mobile plus seems to include telescope control as well now.

I suppose I will need to bite the bullet and buy this for a comparison - mainly between mobile and desktop versions

[iapa]

And another update

skysafari pro has just had an update.

I also will need to do a comparison between mobile,and desktop versions

[Gfamily]

1 hour ago, iapa said:

Follow up.

Stellarium mobile plus seems to include telescope control as well now.

I suppose I will need to bite the bullet and buy this for a comparison - mainly between mobile and desktop versions

Stellarium Plus works well enough (with Synscan WiFi mounts) on Android, in that it shows you to select a target and move the scope to it. The one thing I'd like would be the ability to do fine adjustments.

It's worth noting that there's quite a difference in feel and look between the desktop and the mobile versions of Stellarium, And something of a difference between Basic and Plus versions.

Personally, I'd give Stellarium Plus 6/10 as a planetarium app (whereas I'd give basic Stellarium 8/10). Being able to control the scope is a plus (as it were). 

I am interested in seeing how Sky Safari Plus does, but I'll wait until it's on a decent discount.

[RT65CB-SWL]

+1 for Sky Safari on iOS and +1 for Sky Safari & SkEye on Android OS.

note: The iOS version of includes 'augmented reality' [AR], whereas the
Android OS version does not at time of posting.

If you just want star charts; there is TriAtlas and Star Charts* available on iOS.
Both include a red filter option.

 

* uses the charts/maps from Wil Tirion's 2000.0   

Edited May 1, 2021 by Philip R

[SilverSurfer]

Sky Safari 6 Plus has dropped to £9.99 on the iOS App Store (I think from £14.99) and I've just bought it.

Sky Safari 6 Pro has dropped to £25.99 from (I think from £38.99).

Not sure if the Android versions have also been reduced.

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, SilverSurfer said:

Sky Safari 6 Plus has dropped to £9.99 on the iOS App Store (I think from £14.99) and I've just bought it.

Sky Safari 6 Pro has dropped to £25.99 from (I think from £38.99).

Not sure if the Android versions have also been reduced.

Is Sky Safari more accurate the SkEye for use as a DSC app?

[Gfamily]

4 hours ago, SilverSurfer said:

Sky Safari 6 Plus has dropped to £9.99 on the iOS App Store (I think from £14.99) and I've just bought it.

Sky Safari 6 Pro has dropped to £25.99 from (I think from £38.99).

Not sure if the Android versions have also been reduced.

Thanks for the heads-up - prompted me to check prices on Google Play for the Android versions

£8.49 (From £12.99) for Plus 

£23.49 (From £34.49) for Pro

[SilverSurfer]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

Is Sky Safari more accurate the SkEye for use as a DSC app?

That's not functionality I use so I couldn't say. I think SkEye is Android only so I wouldn't be able to use it anyway.

[AlexK]

On 19/04/2021 at 07:24, Louis D said:

Is Sky Safari more accurate the SkEye for use as a DSC app?

The SkEye is the best "blind" DSC implementation on the market at the moment hands down! 

However, it's heavily dependent on your smartphone accelerometers quality. Your best bet are phones dedicated for VR and AR, as they supposed to have that hardware and software implemented appropriately to support these functions.

But then there is a unavoidable zero drift issue on all of them. A good industrial accelerometer circuit would cost you around $300-500 alone to amend that well enough well before the star chart connection and software implementation done. So don't expect even SkEye replacing real DSCs adequately.

Instead you can learn how to minimize all these issues with a particular telephone by working out a certain pointing flow. SkEye addressing that in several ways which actually working compared to all other apps. Usually, that entails recalibrating on a nearby star often. So you need to learn how to quickly and effortlessly point at one any moment to correct your cheap electronics. Which in turn means you should know constellations well enough and be skilled at pointing your main aperture reliably to naked eye objects (using whatever techniques you prefer from sighting along the OTA to a multitude of auxiliary pointers, Planisphere will work there too, by the way).

Which all at the next turn boils down to the Telrad and a digital star chart showing its rings correctly (and that's not SkySafari or Stellarium or even SkEye, at least not the last time I've been checking these toys) In other words, after learning the sky the question about which app is best for pointing the telescope at invisible with the naked eye targets becomes largely a nobrainer as soon as that target is displayed on the chart between stars you actually can point at in the sky with your finger :))))

The other question is what you would like as an eye candy in your hand. But that's strictly a personal preference (to each its own, there is no way your personal choice of some artful representation of the sky would appeal to everyone here). I love the Stellarium eye candy work very much myself. But it's nearly useless junk for pointing and observing at the eyepiece. Not to mention that it is simply blinding me under the Bortle 1-3 sky for a half of an hour even when used behind the deep red film over the screen...

Edited April 20, 2021 by AlexK

[AlexK]

Also, some "pad" vs "phone" arguments: 

In a nutshell, tablets are appealing to folks too used to the ancient paper charts flow and typical computer screens. Including the ways of interacting with both (eyeballing large surface, interacting with keyboard an mouse, even though largely virtualized and hybridized on tablets).

While smartphone's screens are much closer to the natural sky views as seen through the eyepiece. As well as [supposedly, depending on an app] providing much more intuitive and natural ways of interaction with the chart, objects, and app functions single handed and single-fingered.

Tablets often considered to be better for the folks with minor myopia, as you can put them farther away from your eyes to focus without an eye strain, however, most of the apps supporting tablets does not support that well if at all. Thy are simply expanding the view. So their charts and GUI may became indecipherable and hard to operate from a longer distance (that's why, by the way, it took so long for the Stellarium to be ported to the Android smartphone, its original UI paradigm was not touch screen friendly at all). I have +1.5 myopia myself, but with the proper handheld UI I don't really need the sharp view of the screen for the navigation. Moreover, after the proper darkness adaptation I'm reducing the AMOLED screen brightness to the levels jeopardising any normal visual acuity anyway. But still able to navigate because my chart allows to magnify everything I need to use it at the eyepiece efficiently to like 10 times larger than normal.

The flow with a tablet is always as: look into the EP, go away and look at the screen, then go back. While with the handheld I can look at the EP and the chart nearly simultaneously, so I can compare my views side by side for reliable and quick object finding and star field ID. That is the most efficient and natural way of IDing anything.

Cheap tablets are usually coming with TFT screens, while you can get a cheaper smartphone with OLED/AMOLED which is far superior for the precious darkness adaptation preservation when using a chart to locate super-faint DSOs. In addition, when observing DSO on the edge of your telescope abilities you tend to use your peripheral vision a lot. The large screen of a tablet will kill the peripheral vision as efficiently as the central vision. While a smaller phone screen would keep it largely unaffected.

In the DSC mode there is no way you could make a Tablet stable enough on a sane mount to keep the alignment with the optical axis. It's simply too massive and also flexing. While most any smartphone has no problems with that. E.g. at the moment, I'm testing our upcoming DSC-like solution and mounting the rather large Samsung "phablet " smartphone on top of the selfie stick with two ball heads. The alignment is stable down to an arcminute. 

Finally. In the cold and moist conditions, Tablets tend to die (barely waterproof, large heat dissipating surface to kill the screen and shut off the battery fast, large vulnerable to impacts glass surface...). While a smartphone is small enough to simply hide it in the warm inside pocket immediately after consulting with its screen an out of the way.

And that's all not a theory. I own high-end Samsung tablet (Galaxy Tab S7) too, but found it far inferior for the use at the eyepiece even though it has the AMOLED screen

Edited April 20, 2021 by AlexK

[markbc01]

This is an interesting and timely thread. 

I just tried to incorporate my tablet (also a Galaxy Tab S7) into my viewing last session!  I did not do so for vision - and by the way the “regular” Tab S7 is LCD vice OLED screen (the S7+ is still OLED 😊).  

Bottom line, I think it was good having another screen because I was using my phone to control my mount.   Yet, even setting it on the table I placed outside, it was too bulky to use a lot.

I was puzzled to read that the tablet may hurt peripheral vision more than a phone.  My limited experience in dragging my tablet out for viewing did not seem to show different vision effects for tablet and cell phone.  From what I have seen/experienced,  it’s the light type and brightness  that hurts the night vision. Both can deliver equally light or dimmed displays; but perhaps there is more science to this – on how peripheral vision can be more affected by a tablet than even a small (6.2” display) cell phone?  

Either way. . .  last time out,  I thought that having that larger screen out on the table (because you will need a table of some sort to balance hands, telescopes, and viewing, when adding something like a tablet), might be a plus. 

I was trying a telescope camera (svbony 305), and already had a small laptop (Surface Go) out on the table for the camera, anyway.  My cell phone was controlling the AZ GTi mount with SyncScan, so I thought it would be easier to display the targets in the table using  Stellarium plus.  (As mentioned above, Stellarium can control the mount, but not very well – can’t do the follow-up fine-tune adjustments! You still have to go back to the SyncScan app).

Well, the tablet does it job! However, I think it is a bit bulky and big to use as a routine item.  If I had not had to set up the table/camera/laptop I would have not had the space to add the tablet.  Perhaps balancing it on my eyepieces case, but that is not a solution.  So, my two cents is that the phone is the better tool. Just pull it out, point it, confirm what you see, or find what you what, and then put it away! 😊. . .

It is best if one does not even need it. During my planning in the daytime I do use a Planisphere and sometimes pull up the windows Stellarium app to pinpoint what will be in the sky: when and where for the evening.  It also helps since I don’t know all 88 constellations and their stars! 😊 Even those I know are constantly moving!  😊  Still, when you plan one set of targets, and the clouds, light pollution,  or just the air makes them moot, one needs a backup plan. . .phone (or tablet) to the rescue in the night session. 

As to the graphics, designs, or “eye-candy,” well I have several apps (nightshift, star tracker, star walk 2, Stellarium+  and tried a few others as well. For all of them I think the cleaner, less gaudy display the better. . .(and no music! Please!).

That’s the case UNLESS I can’t find exactly what I am looking for, or I unless I don’t know what I am looking at. THEN I turn on the constellation designs/images/art work as well as the constellation lines.  In a flash one can see exactly That what’s up there, quickly! It is a fast way to re-orient to the sky.  

I then can then reset back to a “clean” interface to compare star asterisms, and look at/for specific patterns;  or even to see where other objects are situated nearby.  

All this is done on the phone. . .  The tablet just seemed too bulky for what I needed.

Of course. . . this is just one approach. . . 😊 

[AlexK]

2 hours ago, markbc01 said:

I was puzzled to read that the tablet may hurt peripheral vision more than a phone.  My limited experience in dragging my tablet out for viewing did not seem to show different vision effects for tablet and cell phone.  From what I have seen/experienced,  it’s the light type and brightness  that hurts the night vision. Both can deliver equally light or dimmed displays; but perhaps there is more science to this – on how peripheral vision can be more affected by a tablet than even a small (6.2” display) cell phone?  

Let me explain. A tablet screen is larger, thus has a larger apparent field of view than the phone screen, as the typical comfortable reading range for both is the same (around 250mm). Thus a) when you look at it, your eye is scanning the screen and exposing more peripheral vision cones to the screen light than when scanning a smaller phone screen (rods bleaching is happening unconsciously too). And b) the integral light luminance of a larger screen is greater than the smaller phone screen given the exact same image displayed on the screen. It's proportional to the lit surface size difference. And on the tablet screen the chart and GUI are either scaled up and thus have more pixels lit or have more elements displayed so showing more lit pixels as well. In other words, the Tablet's screen is brighter object than the phone's.

That's quite similar to what long-term paper charts users are ended up doing to see their charts with less impact on their darkness adaptation: they are avoiding the broad red light shining on their paper charts (they are often huge! I've been working with a pro atlas with like 100x150cm pages) and instead using a narrow collimated beam flashlight to reveal only small round portion of the map on the paper at a time (still blinding on the white paper, but they are also training to look straight at the spot at all times, so the peripheral vision has a minimal chance being exposed too much).

[AlexK]

Oh! And welcome to the forum, markbc01!
I see you are nearby, are you on our local "TAC" group as well already? Ping me in PM if you haven't discovered it yet.

Edited April 20, 2021 by AlexK

[Andrew*]

On 05/04/2021 at 22:22, tea_subtle said:

Will keep an eye out. Thanks. 

The pro version is on sale now for £23.49 which is £11 off normal price. Plus version is at£8.49 which i think is also a few pounds off. 

Now to decide which version to buy... any key features that make the pro version worthwhile? 

[iapa]

29 minutes ago, Andrew* said:

The pro version is on sale now for £23.49 which is £11 off normal price. Plus version is at£8.49 which i think is also a few pounds off. 

Now to decide which version to buy... any key features that make the pro version worthwhile? 

I just get the Pro version - £25 is only a round at the pub.

[Andrew*]

I'm leaning that way but expecting version 7 to be released this year so should maybe wait? 

[M40]

Bit late to the party but just to add to the comments, I use my planisphere....... a lot. I just like it and find it easy to get on with particularly on initial star alignment. When the iphone was still alive, I used an app called sky guide, exceptional 👌. If I could get that app for the android, I would. Now giving myself a mental note to have a look at skysafari. Enjoy 

[Stu1smartcookie]

14 hours ago, iapa said:

I just get the Pro version - £25 is only a round at the pub.

aaaaaah Happy days ... lol,  glad you are buying

 

[Dave61]

On my IPhone 12 Pro I have SkySafari payed version and payed for the Skyview app.