Astrofest feedback?

[Keith Cooper]

Hi everyone,

First, I hope everyone who went to AstroFest enjoyed it. Speaking to Ian Ridpath, he said that the Friday lectures were even better attended than usual, and Saturday was full as it always is, so it seems to have been a great success. Being stuck on the AN stand I didn't get to hear many of the talks, but from what I have been told they were pretty good too. And most of all, a big thank you to everyone who stopped by the AN stand and said hello or bought a subscription, and also thank you very much for all the compliments about the magazine.

As for the venue... it is ok saying why not go to the Excel centre or the NEC, but for a start they are much more expensive to hire than Kensington. So to hire them out we would have to be able to guarantee enough attendees to make it viable. Ticket prices would increase and we would have to charge the exhibitors more money. Maybe five or six years ago when the economy was in great shape would have been a time to consider a move (I believe other venues in London and Birmingham were investigated but apparently none fulfilled our criteria), but with the current recession there isn't much sense in taking a gamble like that. And there's no guarantee that it will be as well attended – I'm frequently told that BAA and RAS meetings outside of London never do as well as in London. By moving, we would have to start from scratch and build up a new audience. At the moment, it is doing really well where it is, so it falls back to the old cliche: if it is not broke, why fix it?

The other thing that is really important for an AstroFest venue is a lecture hall. No one can debate the fact that Kensington has a great lecture hall. I've been to the Excel Centre and the NEC for events, and as far as I am aware neither of them has a dedicated lecture hall, certainly not on the scale of Kensington. Considering the lectures are what we sell most of our tickets for, that has to be a major consideration.

As for the reason it is in London, well actually there are a couple of reasons. First of all, it is already established there. Second, it is practical for the organisers. Third, it is a little bit easier to attract guests from the USA to London. And fourth, from what I'm told most of our exhibitors want to stay in London. Hey, I'm from the north so I'm certainly not London-centric – I think it would be great to have an AstroFest type event in Birmingham or Manchester, for example, so long as we could be sure that it would be as well attended and at an appropriate location. Maybe that is something for the future.

Anyway, for those who did attend and enjoyed it, thanks for coming and I hope to see you there again next year.

Kind regards,

Keith

[bazza]

Thanks Keith for that explanation of why Astrofest is held where it is.

Have you actually asked the vendors and traders their views on moving?

Would/Might they be willing to pay more for a larger venue?

Is it not possible that with a larger venue, more traders and dealers would be willing to attend?

Surely, this might offset the extra cost.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement that it is easier to attract guests to London from the USA - Birmingham (NEC) has a fantastic International Airport with direct links to most USA cities.

I firmly believe that attendance at Astrofest held in a larger venue would indeed increase - there are many who will not attend Kensington due to size.

I take on board what you say about the Conference Centre and please don't think I am bias towards the Midlands, but PLEASE, consider other larger venues for next year.

I really think you may be missing out on a large group of potential, Customers, Dealers and in general Astronomers by continuing to hold Astrofest at Kensington.

Kindest regards,

Barry

[psjshep]

I agree with Barry.

I live about half way between London & Brum and, personally speaking, would not mind paying a little more to attend a much larger venue. The town hall is just too suffocating... literally! It's not that it is in London... it's because the venue is tooooooooo small for the event now.

Keith's point about the lecture hall is a very valid one, though - some thought perhaps about this?

As for not doing it because of the economy.... we should be helping the economy, not using it as a shield.

Phil.

[kniclander]

I am in London and therefore not inconvenienced by the location but it is just too small. I stayed for an hour or so only - the whole thing is cramped and claustrophobic. Tbh I am not sure I would go to Brum etc but that does not mean that I don't recognise that the current venue is not ideal.

[centroid]

Hi Keith

Thank you for the response.

I can understand your reasoning for using Kensington as the venue for Astrofest, but I'm not so sure that it all 'holds water'.

Conference facilties, agreed, the conference/lecture facilty at Kensington does appear to be very suitable indeed. I say 'appear', as like many people, I only ever attended Astrofest for the exhibition/trade aspects, not the lectures.

However, I'm sure that Kensington is not unique in this respect.

I accept that cost is a major consideration, but are not central London venues more expensive than those on the periphery, in the same way as with any other major city.

I have attended several exhibitions at Alexandra Palace, which has ample 'FREE' parking (or at least it did when I last went there), is served by public transport, and easily reached from the M25. Albeit, I don't know what the situation would be with regard to conference facilities. I'm not necessarily saying the that AP is where you would like to hold Astrofest, but just using it as an example of an outer London venue.

As for attracting visitors from the US, yes, it is nice to have them visit, but as has been said, London is not the only city in the UK, with direct flights to the States. Also, the vast majority of visitors to Astrofest, are resident in the UK, and represent the vast majority of Astronomy Now's readers/customers. Therefore, I think its reasonable to suggest that your priorities should be with your UK vistors/customers. The same would apply to the UK based astro equipment retailers/distributors, and in their case, I'm sure that it is.

Astrofest is a unique event in the UK, and from the many comments I hear/read both on and off line, many people are reluctant to go, or just don't bother going anymore, because of where it is, the cramped venue in which it is held, and for some, the cost of getting there (namely those living up North)

We know, and I'm sure you do too, that some, if not many of the dealers are not happy with the Kensignton venue either.

As I have said before, I would be happy to drive 3 hours to a Midlands venue, than travel from Suffolk to Central London. When working, I would regularly travel to Central London, to attend business meetings, and I detested it.

Reading 'between the lines', its clear that, as I've always suspected, Astrofest is 'rooted to the spot', and isn't moving. A great pity, and something that just adds credence to the views of many people living north of Birmingham, that events such as this, only cater for people living in the south.

Dave

[Wobbly Bob]

I have wanted to visit Astrofest for many years, so why dont I go, well I am disabled and need my trusty old wheel chair to get around. Just imagine the hassle of negotiating a train then the underground to get to by all accounts a very overcrowded venue, And driving into London is just not on, I refuse to pay for the congestion charge and a £24 parking fee.

Now the NEC (although a lot further to travel) is a no brainer IMHO, drive to huge car parks on site, put wheel chair on shuttle bus, sorted. The other benifit I would have thought, is its more central thus allowing the northern astro buffs a shorter distance to travel.

As for an auditorium, there must be some solution, how do other events cope.

Even better, as someone suggested a large venue with carpark near the northern M25 (is there one ?)

[Keith Cooper]

As for attracting visitors from the US, yes, it is nice to have them visit, but as has been said, London is not the only city in the UK, with direct flights to the States. Also, the vast majority of visitors to Astrofest, are resident in the UK, and represent the vast majority of Astronomy Now's readers/customers. Therefore, I think its reasonable to suggest that your priorities should be with your UK vistors/customers. The same would apply to the UK based astro equipment retailers/distributors, and in their case, I'm sure that it is.

Well, all I can do is pass everyone's comments on to the organisers, which I will be sure to do, but I just want to address this bit. I think you've misunderstood what I said. I was talking about helping to persuade guest speakers from the US and elsewhere to come to AstroFest, not visitors in general. The only American visitor that I met at AstroFest was Noel Carboni. There were two gentleman from Sweden, someone from Latvia, and someone from Finland that I also met. The vast majority were from the UK and of course UK astronomers are our priority. I've always made it very clear when making Astronomy Now that UK astronomy is at the forefront of what we want to support and encourage. AstroFest is no different.

[bazza]

Keith, thanks for that positive response.

Do you know if the likes of Astro Physics, Televue, Home Innovations, SBIG etc or speakers such as Adam Block, Ron Wodaski or Russell Croman etc etc have ever been invited/asked, to attend/speak at Astrofest.

These are the sort of vendors/speakers that perhaps people would like to see in addition to our own great UK vendors/speakers.

Perhaps with a larger venue - these are the sort of guests that would be encouraged.

Without being disrespectful to Kensington Town Hall - it probably doesn't have the appeal internationally that places such as 'The National Indoor Arena - National Exhibition Centre' etc etc have.

If it needs to be retained in the London area, is there not a large convention centre at Wembley?

Sorry - just ideas, but I think these are the points the organisers need to look at.

UK Astronomy would surely benefit from such international attention.

Regards,

Barry.

[Keith Cooper]

Do you know if the likes of Astro Physics, Televue, Home Innovations, SBIG etc or speakers such as Adam Block, Ron Wodaski or Russell Croman etc etc have ever been invited/asked, to attend/speak at Astrofest.

These are the sort of vendors/speakers that perhaps people would like to see in addition to our own great UK vendors/speakers.

Dunno about A-P, Televue etc, I'll have to ask and find out. Regarding the speakers, I suspect most of them have been asked; I agree someone like Adam or Robert Gendler would be superb to have over, I'll suggest them to Ian Ridpath.

Funnily enough, the Town Hall changed its name a few years back to Kensington Conference and Events Centre, which I guess sounds a little more impressive and less parochial. I think they have some quite large diplomatic functions there, as there are some embassies nearby, so it does cater to events internationally.

[afm038]

Following on from my initial mention of a possible venue like the NEC, there must be several university / college campus' that have both lecture theatre and exhibitor hall facilities available ? For example the Leeds astromeet I mentioned earlier was held at Leeds University.

Thanks, Andy

[centroid]

Hi again Keith, and again thanks for taking the time to respond.

Its reassuring to know that your are responsive to feedback, and prepared to forward that feedback to the right quarters.

Visitors or speakers from the US, I still don't see the relevance with respect to central London making it easier for them to travel here. To retiterate an earlier comment, direct flights to and from the US are readily available from other UK international airports.

If Astrofest was held at Wembley, I would be there every year, along with several people I know locally, who just don't bother going to Kensington anymore.

Interest in Amateur astronomy in the UK, continues to grow, year-on-year (just look at the growth rate on this forum alone), despite being plagued by so much cloud . I'm sure that Astrofest, with its gathering of dealers/distributors, clubs and societies does much to promote interest. However, if it was bigger, better, located in a more suitable venue, and location, I believe attendance figures would grow to match it.

I'm not convinced however, that in my lifetime (I'm 66 now ), I'll ever see Astrofest move out of Kensignton, but you it would be a very nice surprise if it did .

Regards

Dave

[darditti]

I have been to about 4-5 Astrofests. I can see the criticisms of the venue are in some ways reasonable, but I can also see why the show stays where it is.

We seem to be forgetting that a few years ago there was absolutely nothing like this in the UK - full stop. The fact that the event has advanced so far and become such a huge success in that time, that there are the criticisms of venue capacity, shows just how far we have come. This should not be forgotten.

The success is in some ways down to the venue and location. It has many strong points. The quality of the lecture facilities Keith has mentioned. The lectures are a huge part of the event - perhaps the main part. If it was just a trade show it would be totally different - less good, less broad, and would not attract the range of visitors.

Reality check about transport: public transport in London does not always work properly, as we know, but even when it is bad, it is still vastly better than that anywhere else in the UK. We clearly suffered this year from a lot of disruption due to snow on the railways, and some people could not get there, or were very late. But the problems were largely north of Watford, and in the south-west. If Astrofest had been in Birmingham, no-one from London or the South-East could have got there. I venture to suggest that the weather conditions we had this year would have hit attendance for a show in the Midlands far harder than they did here. I have known other events previously held in London to move out, and to do less well. The fact is that an event in London is easier to get to for more people than an event anywhere else in the UK.

Kensington is full ofof taxis and buses. It is also full ofpubs, restaurants and shops, and has lots of hotels to enable those from abroad or distant parts of the UK to come and make a weekend or a week of it. I was on the BAA stand most of the time this year, and, contrary to what Keith says, did meet quite a lot of overseas visitors to Astrofest. I think its fame is spreading. The location is good for them: they can visit London at the same time.

If there was a bigger venue in London that ticked all the other necessary boxes I would favour moving it there. Possibly there might be in a few years with the current redevelopment of Wembley.

At the moment, I can see why the organisers don't want to gamble away a big success, which is why it stays in Kensington.

David Arditti

[centroid]

Hi David

I think that those of us who like travelling into central London, and those that don't, will have to agree to disagree, on the 'fors' and 'againsts'.

However, I would most certainly disagree that London's transport services are better than other UK towns and cities. As I said before, travelling on the London's 'grubby' underground system, especially at peak times, is an endurance test.

Despite the congestion charging, London still gets pretty close to being 'grid locked', with buses crawling 'nose to tail', even in the bus lanes.

As for London's hotels and restaurants etc, they are relatively expensive, compared to those in provincial Cities, and London's reputation for 'ripping off' the tourist, is well know, both here and abroad.

I was born and grew up in London, and lived there up until 20 years ago. Even after moving away, I would regularly travel to central London on business, so I do know the 'score'.

I suspect, that if you lived in the Midlands, or 'up North', as opposed to living in London as you do, your views might be somewhat different.

As an event, which if you like, could be considered the 'show piece' of UK amateur astronomy, without doubt, its location is very much biased towards those living in the South of the country.

Note, that I'm not located in the Midlands or 'up north', in fact I'm only an hours drive from the M25. So, the distance is not an issue with me, just the location in central London.

Anyway, this discussion is largely irrelevant really, as Astrofest is 'rooted to the spot' in Kensington, and those of us who don't like it, won't go, and those that do like it will. End of story really.

Dave

[bazza]

Hi David,

An interesting viewpoint.

You say - "We seem to be forgetting that a few years ago there was absolutely nothing like this in the UK - full stop. The fact that the event has advanced so far and become such a huge success in that time, that there are the criticisms of venue capacity, shows just how far we have come. This should not be forgotten."

That is my very point - it has advanced so far it has now outgrown Kensington - time to move onward and upward.

I think we need to disregard the weather conditions this year when considering the options - these conditions were probably a one-off.

I agree with Dave about both the transport and Hotels - most major cities in the UK can now match London in terms of Public transport and beat the prices of London accomodation.

I'm not saying move the event out of London - but let's look at moving it to a bigger and better place.

Regards,

Barry.